Unknown coin - can you help identify it?
Hi,
I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:53:20 GMT, "jon d'souza^eva"
wrote: Hi What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Hope this helps Pete Hi, I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
Peter Smith wrote:
What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Wow, man! I am impressed. Was that hard to do? I mean, I had a devil of a time making much of anything out and at that I was looking for the standard abbreviations, which I did not see. Is there a book? And do you think you need to explain what a Jetton is? ("The king was in the counting house, counting out his money..." Well, that was fine for HRM, of course, but you could not trust just anyone.) Michael .... as a token of our esteem... |
|
Hi Peter,
Thanks very much for the reply. I searched for pictures of this type of jetton on the internet and found something very similar to mine: http://home.planet.nl/~tolsm031/Enge...els.htm#jeton3 Oh well, I was hoping it was a medieval French gold coin! Jon "Peter Smith" wrote in message ... On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:53:20 GMT, "jon d'souza^eva" wrote: Hi What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Hope this helps Pete Hi, I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
Peter Smith wrote:
Jettons, or reckoning counters, were probably first used in France in the early 13th century and were ... Thanks! I printed out the two-page post and stuck it in my special file folder of numismatic research. It is often said that dealers are forced to be generalists while collectors have the luxury of specializing. You prove the point, again. Among the many interesting historical contexts is the fact that the jettons ("throws") were used with a "checker board." In the UK, what Americans would call the Treasury, is still called the Exchequer. Squares were accounts and jettons were entries. It was a system of one-to-one mapping. At the same time, algebra and Arabic numerals were pretty much entrenched in Venice, Florence, etc. (The city council of Florence actually outlawed algebra and Arabic numerals in the 13th century I believe, but the ban could not hold.) In the 1400s, mathematicians in towns in Italy held public contests in factoring and solving quadradics and diophantines and such. In the north, however, older customs lived on. On the other hand -- and I don't know how historically accurate this is -- in the recent movie GIRL WITH A PEARL EARRING, the butcher's apprentice tells the maid that he will "enter it on the books" that she owes him a smile. It was also from about that time (Rubens: 1577-1640) that Simon Stevin van Brugghe (1548-1620) advocated the decimal system as an alternative to fractions. (So says Breen's ENCYCLOPEDIA.) Even so, German cities continued their fractional thalers into the 1800s. Michael ANA R-162953 |
Peter,
Out of sheer interest, why is it that you refer to it as a `jetton' as opposed to `jeton'? The word jeton stems from the french verb jeter which means `to throw'. jetons were `throw pieces' or `place pieces', or (in other words a reckoning counter (the Nurnberg type sometimes being referred to as rechenpfennigs). Their placement on a checker type board determining the value of a transaction or series of transactions. I've noticed over the years that some people (specifically in England) insist on calling them `jettons'. Whenever i've spoken to dealers and collectors in the UK about `jetons' (french pronounciation) I get blank stares. It's probably too poncy to use a french accent in the UK these days anyway :-). When I say jettons (as in Jet-uns) they say `ah yes those things. Had some last week, but none at present' I've never had any luck buying decent examples of jetons in the UK. True, there is no shortage of corroded bits of metal that leave it to your imagination what these early jetons once looked like. I've been toying with the idea of getting hold of a copy of Mitchiner specifically for the Lowlands and France, but I haven't come across one in the flesh to browse through and see if its what i'm looking for. How does it compare with Feuardent for classification and reference images? Hopefully it is better, but I would be pleasantly surprised if it is as comprehensive. Ian Peter Smith wrote: On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:53:20 GMT, "jon d'souza^eva" wrote: Hi What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Hope this helps Pete Hi, I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:42:44 GMT, Ian
wrote: Hi Ian & All The reason I refer to them as 'Jetton' instead of 'Jeton', is because the first book that I read used the term 'Jetton'. I suppose it is just what you get use to first. With me it is the same as "To Hanover" Tokens, I got use to calling them "Cumberland Jacks", once again this was because this was the first term I saw for these items. Now if I go into a coin shop and ask for a "Cumberland Jack", I too get get blank stares. As for the books, I can't really help. I haven't collected enough Jettons / jetons / Brass discs :) to warrant the outlay for the books. Though I did find the "Paranumismatic Dictionary" a very helpful book. Peter Peter, Out of sheer interest, why is it that you refer to it as a `jetton' as opposed to `jeton'? The word jeton stems from the french verb jeter which means `to throw'. jetons were `throw pieces' or `place pieces', or (in other words a reckoning counter (the Nurnberg type sometimes being referred to as rechenpfennigs). Their placement on a checker type board determining the value of a transaction or series of transactions. I've noticed over the years that some people (specifically in England) insist on calling them `jettons'. Whenever i've spoken to dealers and collectors in the UK about `jetons' (french pronounciation) I get blank stares. It's probably too poncy to use a french accent in the UK these days anyway :-). When I say jettons (as in Jet-uns) they say `ah yes those things. Had some last week, but none at present' I've never had any luck buying decent examples of jetons in the UK. True, there is no shortage of corroded bits of metal that leave it to your imagination what these early jetons once looked like. I've been toying with the idea of getting hold of a copy of Mitchiner specifically for the Lowlands and France, but I haven't come across one in the flesh to browse through and see if its what i'm looking for. How does it compare with Feuardent for classification and reference images? Hopefully it is better, but I would be pleasantly surprised if it is as comprehensive. Ian Peter Smith wrote: On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:53:20 GMT, "jon d'souza^eva" wrote: Hi What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Hope this helps Pete Hi, I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
You are sounding more like Paul Withers by the minute. Excepting that
he's probably bought (and sold) all of the books mentioned, as well as reviewing said `dictionary' in E-Sylum. :-) Ian Peter Smith wrote: On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:42:44 GMT, Ian wrote: Hi Ian & All The reason I refer to them as 'Jetton' instead of 'Jeton', is because the first book that I read used the term 'Jetton'. I suppose it is just what you get use to first. With me it is the same as "To Hanover" Tokens, I got use to calling them "Cumberland Jacks", once again this was because this was the first term I saw for these items. Now if I go into a coin shop and ask for a "Cumberland Jack", I too get get blank stares. As for the books, I can't really help. I haven't collected enough Jettons / jetons / Brass discs :) to warrant the outlay for the books. Though I did find the "Paranumismatic Dictionary" a very helpful book. Peter Peter, Out of sheer interest, why is it that you refer to it as a `jetton' as opposed to `jeton'? The word jeton stems from the french verb jeter which means `to throw'. jetons were `throw pieces' or `place pieces', or (in other words a reckoning counter (the Nurnberg type sometimes being referred to as rechenpfennigs). Their placement on a checker type board determining the value of a transaction or series of transactions. I've noticed over the years that some people (specifically in England) insist on calling them `jettons'. Whenever i've spoken to dealers and collectors in the UK about `jetons' (french pronounciation) I get blank stares. It's probably too poncy to use a french accent in the UK these days anyway :-). When I say jettons (as in Jet-uns) they say `ah yes those things. Had some last week, but none at present' I've never had any luck buying decent examples of jetons in the UK. True, there is no shortage of corroded bits of metal that leave it to your imagination what these early jetons once looked like. I've been toying with the idea of getting hold of a copy of Mitchiner specifically for the Lowlands and France, but I haven't come across one in the flesh to browse through and see if its what i'm looking for. How does it compare with Feuardent for classification and reference images? Hopefully it is better, but I would be pleasantly surprised if it is as comprehensive. Ian Peter Smith wrote: On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 01:53:20 GMT, "jon d'souza^eva" wrote: Hi What you have there looks like a Nuremburg Jetton, And if I am not mistaken it is a Hans Krauwinckel Type (1586 - 1635) Hope this helps Pete Hi, I recently bought a bag of coin and token oddments. I've managed to identify all but two; this is one of them: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown1.jpg http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dsouzae...n/unknown2.jpg It weighs a mere 1.6 grams and is about 15 mm across. I know nothing about gold coins (I specialise in copper), but this looks like gold to me (it's certainly a different colour to my many "in memory of the good old days" tokens!). Can anyone identify this for me? Thanks a lot, Jon |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:04 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CollectingBanter.com