Why undenominated stamps?

"Cloy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to all who responded to my question.

So this is a matter of the U.S. government and/or the U.S. Postal
Service becoming so bloated and bureaucratic that they are unable
determine how much the stamps will be worth before they are
printed....?

I guess that explains a few things. -- Insert your own joke here
about
postal workers going crazy --.

Excelsior! -Cloy

A different reason may be that the US does not allow NVIs to hold
their value when rates increase. I think the UK was the first country
to introduce this concept, (21 April 1982 for postal stationery; 22
August 1989 for gummed stamps). This way it does not matter if the PO
does not know the new rate until late in the day; the stamps have
already been issued and just change their value. That is why the value
is not indicated. It also avoids the hassle of retailers and other
outlets having to return outdated stock and the logistics of supplying
them all with new stock. In the UK NVI stamps sold at 19p in 1989 can
still be used for the same service today costing 32p. Not that many
are likely to be.

Douglas

snipped...


Hi, I found this page on USPS website:
https://hdusps.esecurecare.net/cgi-b...ionstampvalues
(hoping the link won't break)

The list on this website is no where near complete. There are many more
for Bulk Rate and Non Profit use.

Ralphael, the OLD one

"Cloy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Douglas,

Thanks for your response. I see what you are saying, but as I noted
to
Dominique, a "First Class" U.S. stamp purchased six months ago for
37
cents does NOT provide adequate postage for a "First Class" letter
today -- the new rate is 39 cents, so an additional 2-cent stamp is
required to send a letter. Of course, since the stamps say only
"First
Class USA 2006," that's not obvious.

Excelsior! -Cloy


Douglas Myall wrote:
"Cloy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to all who responded to my question.

So this is a matter of the U.S. government and/or the U.S.
Postal
Service becoming so bloated and bureaucratic that they are
unable
determine how much the stamps will be worth before they are
printed....?

I guess that explains a few things. -- Insert your own joke here
about
postal workers going crazy --.

Excelsior! -Cloy

A different reason may be that the US does not allow NVIs to hold
their value when rates increase. I think the UK was the first
country
to introduce this concept, (21 April 1982 for postal stationery;
22
August 1989 for gummed stamps). This way it does not matter if the
PO
does not know the new rate until late in the day; the stamps have
already been issued and just change their value. That is why the
value
is not indicated. It also avoids the hassle of retailers and other
outlets having to return outdated stock and the logistics of
supplying
them all with new stock. In the UK NVI stamps sold at 19p in 1989
can
still be used for the same service today costing 32p. Not that
many
are likely to be.

Douglas


Yes, I understand that Cloy. I am suggesting that the US should adopt
a similar policy as the UK has and then the US would not have to
bother at all that "they are unable to determine how much the stamps
will be worth before they are printed." Their value would be whatever
the relevant rate is at *the date of sale*. A First Class U.S. stamp
purchased six months ago for 37 cents WOULD then provide adequate
postage for a First Class letter today. It would NOT be necessary to
know the value of such an NVI when it was printed.

Douglas

Douglas Myall wrote:
"Cloy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Douglas,

Thanks for your response. I see what you are saying, but as I noted

to

Dominique, a "First Class" U.S. stamp purchased six months ago for

37

cents does NOT provide adequate postage for a "First Class" letter
today -- the new rate is 39 cents, so an additional 2-cent stamp is
required to send a letter. Of course, since the stamps say only

"First

Class USA 2006," that's not obvious.

Excelsior! -Cloy


Douglas Myall wrote:

"Cloy" wrote in message
egroups.com...

Thanks to all who responded to my question.

So this is a matter of the U.S. government and/or the U.S.

Postal

Service becoming so bloated and bureaucratic that they are

unable

determine how much the stamps will be worth before they are
printed....?

I guess that explains a few things. -- Insert your own joke here

about

postal workers going crazy --.

Excelsior! -Cloy


A different reason may be that the US does not allow NVIs to hold
their value when rates increase. I think the UK was the first

country

to introduce this concept, (21 April 1982 for postal stationery;

22

August 1989 for gummed stamps). This way it does not matter if the

PO

does not know the new rate until late in the day; the stamps have
already been issued and just change their value. That is why the

value

is not indicated. It also avoids the hassle of retailers and other
outlets having to return outdated stock and the logistics of

supplying

them all with new stock. In the UK NVI stamps sold at 19p in 1989

can

still be used for the same service today costing 32p. Not that

many

are likely to be.

Douglas



Yes, I understand that Cloy. I am suggesting that the US should adopt
a similar policy as the UK has and then the US would not have to
bother at all that "they are unable to determine how much the stamps
will be worth before they are printed." Their value would be whatever
the relevant rate is at *the date of sale*. A First Class U.S. stamp
purchased six months ago for 37 cents WOULD then provide adequate
postage for a First Class letter today. It would NOT be necessary to
know the value of such an NVI when it was printed.

Douglas

The United States is way behind the rest of the world on a number of
items, not just NVI stamps for continuing usage. The paper currency is
all one size and all one color(although they are experimenting with
changed colors on new $10 bills), dollar coins haven't achieved much
circulation, and the metric system has never gained acceptance here
except in liquor bottle sizes.

Bill

"Dominique Stéphan" wrote in message
...
snip
From the post office point of vue, it means
they don't have to print new stamps at each
rate change (and destroy stocks of the old
face value). It also means they can increase
rates easily !


That's the idea. By printing less stamps the PO avoids paying for the
consequences of inflation, that is generated by a sister department (the one
that prints money, often by using the same printing offices).

Stamps and money, money, money
Always funny...

Victor

The color code system will not work in the USA unless the PO changes its
attitude on the subject.. Color-coding works only if the stamp maintains its
basic postal service, regardless of the rate at the time of use. In the
USA, an NVI stamp has a specific value, and it keeps that forever. When the
postal rates go up, that NVI stamp is useless by itself, unless the
deficiency is achieved by adding more stamp(s). Ironically, the add-on
stamp itself may be an NVI, with its own permanent value. With the dozens
of NVIs issued in the USA during last decade or more, everybody is confused,
including the post office staff, which have to refer to a color chart of the
various stamps and their franking value. What a mess!

Tony

"Dominique Stéphan" wrote in message
...
Dave Kent a écrit:
Recent stamps
from Monaco have no postage indicated at all, and youj can only tell
the denomination by the color. It's all become very confusing.

It's color code : green for economic letter, red for
letter. It's an old convention now (originated in
1969).

There is a specialised association on the subject,
the NVI Club
http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/a...ub/gbindex.php

The Lady Mc Leod is the first NVI stamp, issued in 1847,
so NVI aren't new.


--
Cordialement
Dominique Stéphan
http://blog-philatelie.blogspot.com/ Mon blog philatélie
http://www.timbre-poste.com/ Timbres-poste d'usage courant
http://amisdemarianne.free.fr/ Cercle des Amis de Marianne



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Colour Coding on stamps
-----------------------------------

The UPU stamp colour coding system has not been
used in USA for over 50 years, Great Britain for over
60 years, and elsewhere for over 80 years.

By 1850, Austria, Prussia and a number of the kingdoms,
principalities and duchies of the German-speaking world
formed the German-Austrian Postal Union which not only
facilitated the free passage of mail among the various
countries of the union, but played an important part in
influencing the colours used to denote the various postal
rates, so that sorting clerks could immediately recognise
whether mail was correctly stamped or not.

This was a principle that the Universal Postal Union tried
to develop, although it was not until 1891 that a colour
code was agreed for the basic international rates: printed
matter (green), postcards (red) and letters (blue). Thus,
the denominations intended for these purposes were
printed in these colours.

At the turn of the 20th century, therefore these colours
were widely used in the British Empire for the 1/2_d,
1_d and 2_d stamps respectively, and had their
counterparts in many other countries.

Thus green was the colour of the American 1 cent,
the French 5 centimes and the German 5 pfennig;
red was the colour of the 2 cents, 10 centimes and
10 pfennig; and blue was the colour of the 5 cents,
25 centimes and 25 pfennig.

The UPU colour code continued until World War I
when inflation played havoc with postal charges,
but it lingered on in Britain until 1940 and the USA
until the 1950s.

Blair

Adding to the mess nis the Breast Cancer Awareness stamp.
Originally issued for 39c is now sold for 45c, exact same stamp except
for the little date on the bottom. Don't try and use an old one for
first class postage today for a sharp eyed postal worker may spot the
old date. That is if there is one that has the time to examine the
envelope...or cares.

Ralphael, the old one

Cloy wrote:

I see what you are saying, but as I noted to
Dominique, a "First Class" U.S. stamp purchased six months ago for 37
cents does NOT provide adequate postage for a "First Class" letter
today -- the new rate is 39 cents, so an additional 2-cent stamp is
required to send a letter. Of course, since the stamps say only "First
Class USA 2006," that's not obvious.

This doesn't sound right. The stamps that say "First Class USA 2006"
with no denomination are the "Liberty & Flag" stamp (depicting the
Statue of Liberty in front of the American flag) and the "True Blue
Love" stamp (depicting two bluebirds). See
http://www.virtualstampclub.com/2005...ibertynon1.jpg and
http://www.virtualstampclub.com/2005/us_truebluendn.jpg for images of
these stamps. These stamps were issued as nondenominated to accommodate
the rate change in January 2006 -- that's why their value is 39 cents
each.

There were nondenominated stamps issued due to past rate changes, but
the last rate change was in 2002, so those nondenominated stamps would
most likely show a year date of 2002. (Those were the flag stamp and
the antique toys stamp. See http://tinyurl.com/zxfoh with regard to the
stamps issued June 7, 2002 for images.) Most of those stamps would
already have been off sale six months ago.

Joshua Kreitzer

In a recent message "Blair (TC)" wrote:

Colour Coding on stamps
-----------------------------------

The UPU stamp colour coding system has not been
used in USA for over 50 years, Great Britain for over
60 years, and elsewhere for over 80 years.

By 1850, Austria, Prussia and a number of the kingdoms,
principalities and duchies of the German-speaking world
formed the German-Austrian Postal Union which not only
facilitated the free passage of mail among the various
countries of the union, but played an important part in
influencing the colours used to denote the various postal
rates, so that sorting clerks could immediately recognise
whether mail was correctly stamped or not.

This was a principle that the Universal Postal Union tried
to develop, although it was not until 1891 that a colour
code was agreed for the basic international rates: printed
matter (green), postcards (red) and letters (blue). Thus,
the denominations intended for these purposes were
printed in these colours.

At the turn of the 20th century, therefore these colours
were widely used in the British Empire for the 1/2_d,
1_d and 2_d stamps respectively, and had their
counterparts in many other countries.

Thus green was the colour of the American 1 cent,
the French 5 centimes and the German 5 pfennig;
red was the colour of the 2 cents, 10 centimes and
10 pfennig; and blue was the colour of the 5 cents,
25 centimes and 25 pfennig.

The UPU colour code continued until World War I
when inflation played havoc with postal charges,
but it lingered on in Britain until 1940

No. It continued well after that. The later
GVI definitives had a colour change to take into account a rate change,
and this continued for a while with the first QEII
Wildings.

1937: Green 1/2d
Red 1d
Blue 2 1/2d
1950 Green 1 1/2d
Red 2 1/2d
Blue 4d

It was not until 1958 that even commemoratives failed to adopt this
colour scheme. It was in 1961 that the rate went up but the colours
of the definitives remained unchanged.

and the USA
until the 1950s.

Blair


--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
.... Captain, the UARTs won't take this Speed!