New CW Mailing Procedure?

Coin News, UK, arrives in a plastic bag with a white card over the front
and back concealing what type of mag it is, Coincraft's Phoenix is also
concealed but a recent letter from Spink had "Banknote Department"
proudly printed on the front, not very subtle. Billy


"Byron L. Reed" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:07:32 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

So you suspect that adding a cover sheet to mailed CW issues will "****
somebody off"? I can't imagine why, as long as there's no additional cost.

Bruce, you said you wanted such a thing all the time. If they don't have a
sponsor for it all the time, there will be an additional cost that somebody
will have to pay for. You cannot assume that they can find an advertiser
willing to cough up the cash every week. Who pays for your fancy wrapper
on those weeks? If they make the business decision to run a wrapper
regardless of sponsorship, they must raise the price of subscription to
cover the off weeks. That will certainly **** some folks off on the margin
and cause them to lose readers.

What you don't seem to understand is that every change a publisher makes in
their product ****es somebody off at the margin. A increase in rates to
offset your wrapper is balanced with loss of subscribers. A reduction of
the size of the Coin World logo to suit your security concerns reduces
visibility at newsstands and decreases sales for both you and your dealer.
An increase in type size increases readership, but increases material and
production costs. A reduction has the opposite effect. An reduction of ad
rates increases the ad volumes and people end subscriptions because the
thing is "nothing but ads", despite the reduction in cost to them. Or, as
happens with many collectible mags, a increase of ad rates leads to readers
getting angry because there is less offered by mail order dealers.

Trust me when I tell you that every publisher tries every day to balance
the desirability of their product between readers and advertisers, because
right there at the fulcrum is the maximum profit. Finding that spot is
difficult because it is always moving this way and that, but over time you
find somewhere close and ride it out with the knowledge that there will
always be some customers who cannot be brought on board. In that moment,
we are perfectly willing to not sell that ad or not sell that magazine for
the sole purpose of mollifying one customer.

I don't criticize you wanting this or that in Coin World or whatever
publication. Go ahead and suggest it to them. I'm sure they will be happy
to consider it and would love to do it if the numbers work out for them.
But if it cuts at their bottom line don't be surprised when they don't
pursue it, because I guarantee you that they are running pluses and minuses
through their head exactly as I did. My criticism is of the assumption
that such a change would be cheap and easy. I know better than that.

Personally I like the option of a surcharge for customers who like special
packaging. This would probably be something that would interest you, too.
Of course, to make it work there would have to be a certain threshold of
interest at the additional price required. Postage could be a major
problem, because they could not mail it with their regular mailing because
each piece has to be exactly the same other than address. A second mailing
could be made at the same per piece rate with an additional wrap, but the
initial fee would have to paid a second time because of the separate
mailing. Placing it in a closed, anonymous envelope would probably boot it
into a different mail class which would be mucho costy. In any event,
suggest it to them and they can run the numbers.

BLReed

To email me click he http://tinyurl.com/nd66
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things: http://www.byronreed.com/byrons_collections/default.htm
Talk bust coins: http://www.byronreed.com/phpBB2/index.php

A card company that accepts a PO address is not being very smart, "dodgy
geezer" comes to mind.

If you were a retailer would you be happy accepting a card payment from
a card registered to a PO? Billy


"Byron L. Reed" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:42:46 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

nice idea, but many credit card issuers won't let a po box serve as a
billing address.

So, use one that does.

BLReed

Man! You DID get up on the wrong side of the bed! Have a cup of
coffee......

Bruce

No, it just that people come up with such lame excuses for not doing the
simplest of things. Like it's tough to get credit card offers nowadays.

After all, if it's okay to bitch, moan, and gripe at Coin World about the
size of their logo with the threat of a non-subscription, what's wrong with
telling your credit card company to accept a PO Box address or take a hike?
Find a new card and transfer the balance for goodness sake. You'll
probably get a better rate to boot.

BLReed

To email me click he http://tinyurl.com/nd66
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things: http://www.byronreed.com/byrons_collections/default.htm
Talk bust coins: http://www.byronreed.com/phpBB2/index.php

"note.boy" wrote:

Coin News, UK, arrives in a plastic bag with a white card over the front
and back concealing what type of mag it is, Coincraft's Phoenix is also
concealed but a recent letter from Spink had "Banknote Department"
proudly printed on the front, not very subtle. Billy

Over here I believe it's called a 'polybag'. My friend the magazine
editor recently started using these in response to complaints about
handling damage in the mail. They've been a big success on that score
and although his are clear (why would anyone want to hide pictures of
Jasna Reed and Ilja Luplesku at the US Nationals?) I think they are also
available in opaque white. He claims that the cost of the bagging was
offset by the decreased number of 'make-good' copies that are now mailed
per issue.

Alan
'do it right the first time'


"Byron L. Reed" wrote:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:07:32 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

So you suspect that adding a cover sheet to mailed CW issues will "****
somebody off"? I can't imagine why, as long as there's no additional cost.

Bruce, you said you wanted such a thing all the time. If they don't have a
sponsor for it all the time, there will be an additional cost that somebody
will have to pay for. You cannot assume that they can find an advertiser
willing to cough up the cash every week. Who pays for your fancy wrapper
on those weeks? If they make the business decision to run a wrapper
regardless of sponsorship, they must raise the price of subscription to
cover the off weeks. That will certainly **** some folks off on the margin
and cause them to lose readers.

What you don't seem to understand is that every change a publisher makes in
their product ****es somebody off at the margin. A increase in rates to
offset your wrapper is balanced with loss of subscribers. A reduction of
the size of the Coin World logo to suit your security concerns reduces
visibility at newsstands and decreases sales for both you and your dealer.
An increase in type size increases readership, but increases material and
production costs. A reduction has the opposite effect. An reduction of ad
rates increases the ad volumes and people end subscriptions because the
thing is "nothing but ads", despite the reduction in cost to them. Or, as
happens with many collectible mags, a increase of ad rates leads to readers
getting angry because there is less offered by mail order dealers.

Trust me when I tell you that every publisher tries every day to balance
the desirability of their product between readers and advertisers, because
right there at the fulcrum is the maximum profit. Finding that spot is
difficult because it is always moving this way and that, but over time you
find somewhere close and ride it out with the knowledge that there will
always be some customers who cannot be brought on board. In that moment,
we are perfectly willing to not sell that ad or not sell that magazine for
the sole purpose of mollifying one customer.

I don't criticize you wanting this or that in Coin World or whatever
publication. Go ahead and suggest it to them. I'm sure they will be happy
to consider it and would love to do it if the numbers work out for them.
But if it cuts at their bottom line don't be surprised when they don't
pursue it, because I guarantee you that they are running pluses and minuses
through their head exactly as I did. My criticism is of the assumption
that such a change would be cheap and easy. I know better than that.

Personally I like the option of a surcharge for customers who like special
packaging. This would probably be something that would interest you, too.
Of course, to make it work there would have to be a certain threshold of
interest at the additional price required. Postage could be a major
problem, because they could not mail it with their regular mailing because
each piece has to be exactly the same other than address. A second mailing
could be made at the same per piece rate with an additional wrap, but the
initial fee would have to paid a second time because of the separate
mailing. Placing it in a closed, anonymous envelope would probably boot it
into a different mail class which would be mucho costy. In any event,
suggest it to them and they can run the numbers.

BLReed

To email me click he http://tinyurl.com/nd66
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things: http://www.byronreed.com/byrons_collections/default.htm
Talk bust coins: http://www.byronreed.com/phpBB2/index.php

"Byron L. Reed" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:07:32 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

So you suspect that adding a cover sheet to mailed CW issues will "****
somebody off"? I can't imagine why, as long as there's no additional
cost.


Bruce, you said you wanted such a thing all the time. If they don't have
a
sponsor for it all the time, there will be an additional cost that
somebody
will have to pay for. You cannot assume that they can find an advertiser
willing to cough up the cash every week. Who pays for your fancy wrapper
on those weeks? If they make the business decision to run a wrapper
regardless of sponsorship, they must raise the price of subscription to
cover the off weeks. That will certainly **** some folks off on the
margin
and cause them to lose readers.

Yes, I thought that would be nice all the time, if it was in their interest.
Once again I would suggest that it doesn't have to be a "fancy wrapper",
just another sheet of newsprint the same weight at the rest of the paper but
without the COIN WORLD at the top. CW apparently is not at its page limit,
as I notice the last couple of issues with 116 and 96 numbered pages. The
subdued cover page would be one more sheet, numbered C1 through c4 like it
is now. Numerous magazines do this for subscribers, although probably more
for protection of a pretty cover, but they do it nonetheless. If
advertisers weren't interested in having their copy appear on such a cover
page, then it wouldn't be cost-effective and there may be no benefit for the
publisher. That remains to be seen with CW.


What you don't seem to understand is that every change a publisher makes
in
their product ****es somebody off at the margin. A increase in rates to
offset your wrapper is balanced with loss of subscribers. A reduction of
the size of the Coin World logo to suit your security concerns reduces
visibility at newsstands and decreases sales for both you and your dealer.
An increase in type size increases readership, but increases material and
production costs. A reduction has the opposite effect. An reduction of
ad
rates increases the ad volumes and people end subscriptions because the
thing is "nothing but ads", despite the reduction in cost to them. Or, as
happens with many collectible mags, a increase of ad rates leads to
readers
getting angry because there is less offered by mail order dealers.

The extra sheet shouldn't cost any more than a 116-page issue costs the
subscriber more than a 96-page issue. I presume that ad submissions dictate
the size of each issue. Once again, The CW logo would not change at all--
it would simply appear on "page 3" for subscribers and right up front on the
newsstands where no coversheet would be used. Although I defer to your
apparent expertise in the publishing field, I still think you're making this
into too much of a major problem for Amos Press. They put an ad cover on
the last issue, so they must have considered it to be in their interest. My
hope is that it will continue, but I'm far from obsessed with the prospect.


Trust me when I tell you that every publisher tries every day to balance
the desirability of their product between readers and advertisers, because
right there at the fulcrum is the maximum profit. Finding that spot is
difficult because it is always moving this way and that, but over time you
find somewhere close and ride it out with the knowledge that there will
always be some customers who cannot be brought on board. In that moment,
we are perfectly willing to not sell that ad or not sell that magazine for
the sole purpose of mollifying one customer.

I'll leave the hand-wringing to Amos Press. If they decide to continue with
a cover sheet, I'll be pleased.


I don't criticize you wanting this or that in Coin World or whatever
publication. Go ahead and suggest it to them. I'm sure they will be
happy
to consider it and would love to do it if the numbers work out for them.
But if it cuts at their bottom line don't be surprised when they don't
pursue it, because I guarantee you that they are running pluses and
minuses
through their head exactly as I did. My criticism is of the assumption
that such a change would be cheap and easy. I know better than that.

If it's not cheap and easy and would have no cost benefit, of course no one
should expect them to adopt the practice. My hope is that this is not the
case. Time will tell.


Personally I like the option of a surcharge for customers who like special
packaging. This would probably be something that would interest you, too.
Of course, to make it work there would have to be a certain threshold of
interest at the additional price required. Postage could be a major
problem, because they could not mail it with their regular mailing because
each piece has to be exactly the same other than address. A second
mailing
could be made at the same per piece rate with an additional wrap, but the
initial fee would have to paid a second time because of the separate
mailing. Placing it in a closed, anonymous envelope would probably boot
it
into a different mail class which would be mucho costy. In any event,
suggest it to them and they can run the numbers.

I recall several other hobby pubs I received surveying subscribers as to
their interest in various mailing options, including having mags delivered
in wrappers, envelopes, cover pages, etc. at a higher rate. I don't recall
Amos Press ever surveying CW readers on these matters, so I presume they
don't have a handle on exactly how proposals like this would be received. I
suppose if it "ain't broke...." may be their attitude here.

Bruce

"Byron L. Reed" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:16:35 -0500, "Bruce Remick" wrote:

Did you see anywhere in my posts where I "bitched, moaned, or griped" at
Coin World with a threat of non-subscription?

I saw you bitch, moan, and gripe at Coin World, for not meeting your needs
as you saw them. This included a letter or emails, as I recall, to which
you received no response.

No, I don't remember you saying that you threatened them, at least not
specifically. But it only makes sense that a disgruntled customer will at
some point forgo your product if you don't make them happy. That is an
implied threat whenever you face customer demands. Or, did you include in
your note a disclaimer that you will keep your subscription regardless of
how poorly they treat you in the future?


I hate to belabor this, but my correspondence with CW/Amos Press consisted
basically of an appreciation for what they are doing and a question about
whether this would continue, along with a couple of wish list suggestions.
I thought they would appreciate constructive feedback from customers. maybe
they did, but I received no response. No big deal to me. If you consider
this bitching, moaning, and griping, then I must have been living life on
the edge for over 60 years. At no time did I ever express disatisfaction or
threaten to cancel my subscription. You sure are reading your own agenda
into what I posted.

Bruce

On Wed, "note.boy" wrote:

A card company that accepts a PO address is not being very smart, "dodgy
geezer" comes to mind.

The post office will not rent a PO Box to anyone who does
not have a physical address verified by the delivery person.

If you were a retailer would you be happy accepting a card payment from
a card registered to a PO? Billy

I haven't had any problems, they seem happy to accept
any credit card and they run the card before shipping.

Most retailers do not even ask when the card is presented,
although lately some are asking for picture ID.


A coin magazine publisher has very little invested the first
30 days and would have to be paranoid to worry for a second
about whether or not the credit card is a problem.

A coin dealer can hardly hide the fact that he has coins
in stock, but many individuals may want to take measures for
personal security.
Theft of mail is a problem the thief has to worry about,
buglary of an inhabited dwelling puts lives at risk, and carries
a much higher penalty than store burgulary.

So individual coin collectors may want a different kind
of security than a dealer. But the P.O. Box issue is moot if
the subscriber has a through the wall mail box, as only postal
employees will see the coin magazine.
The problem is with what the postal employee may talk
about and what other people may hear and repeat.

Joe Fischer

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:29:15 +0000, "note.boy"
wrote:

A card company that accepts a PO address is not being very smart, "dodgy
geezer" comes to mind.

If you were a retailer would you be happy accepting a card payment from
a card registered to a PO? Billy

Actually, they are being very stupid, as there are many postal patrons who
do not have home delivery and must use a post office box. A good example
of that is the town of Fort Pierre, across the river from here. The "new"
area of town has mail carriers, while the "old" area of town never has.
Yes, as hard as it is to believe, there are well more that a thousand folks
who absolutely do not have a street mailing address. In fact, their PO box
numbers even appear on their driver's licenses.

From a security standpoint they should also prefer post office boxes,
because there is a much reduced chance of having mailed cards and
statements end up in the hands of someone other than the cardholder.

BLReed

To email me click he http://tinyurl.com/nd66
For collector coins and supplies at fair prices: http://tinyurl.com/pt9r
Cool things: http://www.byronreed.com/byrons_collections/default.htm
Talk bust coins: http://www.byronreed.com/phpBB2/index.php