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Da Book
Hi,
As a newbie to both this group and pens I keep seeing 'Da Book' mentioned as almost a bible on this and another groups. Can some one tell me what the real title is and the author so I can have a look? Thanks, Mike |
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#2
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Michael Oates wrote:
As a newbie to both this group and pens I keep seeing 'Da Book' mentioned as almost a bible on this and another groups. Can some one tell me what the real title is and the author so I can have a look? Geez, I dunno Mike, the author is kind of shy. I'm not sure if you'll be able to coax him out of hiding. ; ) |
#3
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Michael Oates wrote:
Hi, As a newbie to both this group and pens I keep seeing 'Da Book' mentioned as almost a bible on this and another groups. Can some one tell me what the real title is and the author so I can have a look? email me for all the details I see tha author daily. In a mirror. If it doesn't crack first. Frank |
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#5
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Dubiel is considered the author of this book ,but editor is the more
appropriate (and generous) description of his function. "Is considered?" That's an interesting choice of words that presupposes a conclusion. Let me correct you: he *is* the author. An editor arranges, culls, and screens prewritten content. FD wrote, himself, all of Da Book except for small sections that were (intentionally) reproduced from other sources. These materials were written for employees of those companies who were trained in the repair of a particular company’s pens. The repairmen used them as a reference while on the job (although, I imagine that, like many jobs, certain repairs, if not all, became pro forma). They were not intended for the use by the public. If the materials to which you refer are the actual manufacturer-written pen-repair manuals, your statement is correct, although that does not mean their use by the average Joe would not be of value to him. Same way a shop manual would be of value to the average Joe who chooses to do his own auto/truck maintenance. Written for the certified tech? Sure. Valuable to the shade-tree mechanic? Without a doubt. Ah, but wait, you already made that point below, and refuted your previous one: It is like and contains the detail of ,say, a Volkswagen-trained mechanic’s shop manual, plus another manufacturer’s manual plus, etc. .......although not one iota as voluminous as that combination would be. Here is the second, and, by far, most pertinent : These repairmen had parts available to them. If a pen was damaged while being repaired, a new feed,section, whatever, was within, probably, arm’s length. With this statement you imply that unless something's close at hand, it's unavailable. Not true. I have had some pens apart for over two years waiting to find one small piece. At some pen show or another, or somewhere else, these parts will turn up. So your implication that Da Book is less-valuable because a particular damaged part may not be instantly available does not hold water. Unless you intend to invest in the repair of pens (the book, the tools, the time, the whole nine yards, and then want to compete for vintage parts), this is a waste of say (well it is $18.95 on the Bay) of at least $18.95 plus shipping. So you are saying that Da Book's audience is only people who intend to get seriously into pen repair in terms of lots of tools and lots of time? That's absurd and fails the test of logic as well as any simple Finance 101 ROI test. I can almost recite the contents of Da Book (both editions) page by page, and I can tell you that there is lots of information in there for the rank beginner, even someone who's afraid even to do a sac swap, information that's useful to people who never want to pull a pen apart. Any pen owner can benefit from knowing how his pen works, to get the most benefit from it, and Da Book has that information in spades. There are also sections on paper and ink and polishing that would benefit, again, people who never intend to repair a pen. Pen repair is not rocket science but it is not without its share of problems and surprises. True. So are all fun pastimes. The alternative in life is to sit in a chair in the corner of the room and stare vacantly into space until bedtime. Ask anyone about automobile restoration, horseback riding, mountain climbing, target shooting, programming, anything that makes life interesting enough to take another breath. Spend money. Have fun. Break stuff occasionally. Cuss and swear and laugh and live your life. How many junkers are you willing to overpay for in order to practice. Again you make a supposition that is faulty. Junkers are exactly what people do *not* overpay for. They are cheap and everywhere at pen shows, and people who are thinking straight will buy many when they turn up, enough to get them through according to their learning plan. Buying junk pens is an investment in one's future ability, just as a welder's purchase of scrap metal and welding rods, and consumption of electricity, are investments in himself toward a time when he'll be good at what he does and enjoy it even more. Same thing for an artist's paints and canvas, a programmer's development tools and manuals, and so on. And just when you think you are ready, bam, you “screw the pooch”. The pen goes off to be repaired in, probably, a more damaged condition than before you missed that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74. Ah, but there are two problems with this argument, maybe three. First, you imply the probability that a pen is going to get broken, or enough of a probability that fixing a pen shouldn't even be attempted using Da Book as a resource. That is just plain wrong, and I can personally vouch that I was using the first edition *way* before I knew of any alternate sources of repair information, and I think I broke maybe two or three pens in all of my first two or three years. People who fix pens break them occasionally. Big deal. Second, you make the assumption that a pen owner is going to throw up his hands after his first mistake and send the pen to someone else. Let me assure you that I have done this only once (subcontracted nib job) and I know of no other amateurs who've done this at any significant frequency. People who ask someone else for a rescue by sending their pens out are in the small minority, otherwise notices and warnings of The Great Dangers And Terrors And Heartbreak Of Pen Repair would be all over the boards, and no one would be attempting it except people with mechanical-engineering PhDs. Third, you can't damn Frank's book because of someone's missing "that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74." The information is there, and it's up to the purchaser to read it. If I were doing a brake job on a truck and I missed the information on page 567 of the shop manual about tightening the lug nuts to 140 foot-pounds, it's not the shop manual's fault that the wheels fell off the truck a month later. You can glean as much information as you need off the various pen sites. Not necessarily, and nowhere near as much as is in Da Book, and what the information needed can't be gotten from the Internet? Another aspect to this is, would you rather fix pens or would you rather chase down information bit by bit, as it's required? Blandolf has already given you excellent advice regarding the Pelikan nibs. Pen Hero lists hunderds of sites and Richard Binder’s site defines the terminology, explains the basics and has nice contemporary illustrations (I believe he uses Photoshop) that are easy to read visuals. (His graphic [ on Pentrace] illustrating the why in “Why does my brand new Pelikan skip?”was most informative in showing that the problem is the fault of the manufacturer of the nib.) The info is out there and it is gratis. And a Mottishaw nib on the way. Great. But whether that information is useful to the person who needs to fix a particular vintage pen is speculative at best. Save your money for the buying of pens. You are going to need it. No. Invest in Da Book. It will pay for itself with the first pen you don't break because of the things you will learn from reading it. QH |
#6
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Hi,
I would like to thank 'ALL' who have given advice on this (I have also had an email from Frank). Both arguments for and against getting the book for a beginner are valid, especially if money was a consideration, yes, getting a pen maybe better than getting the book. But over all, I have concluded that having the information on how various pens work and how a pen could be repaired if indeed it could be, can help in the purchase of pens by judging how much effort and therefore cost could be involved in their repair even if I do not do this myself and at this stage I would not. So I 'may' be getting the book. To be quite honest I do not know if I want to go along the vintage pen collection route or just get new ones. My main reason for having pens is to use them, and to enjoy using them. Time will tell, but something tells me, (from reading allot on the subject over the past couple of weeks) that I will not stop at three pens!!! There is something special about holding a beautiful pen that writes well, but I guess you all know that. I am already drooling over images of a Nakaya! Thanks, Mike Dubiel is considered the author of this book ,but editor is the more appropriate (and generous) description of his function. "Is considered?" That's an interesting choice of words that presupposes a conclusion. Let me correct you: he *is* the author. An editor arranges, culls, and screens prewritten content. FD wrote, himself, all of Da Book except for small sections that were (intentionally) reproduced from other sources. These materials were written for employees of those companies who were trained in the repair of a particular companys pens. The repairmen used them as a reference while on the job (although, I imagine that, like many jobs, certain repairs, if not all, became pro forma). They were not intended for the use by the public. If the materials to which you refer are the actual manufacturer-written pen-repair manuals, your statement is correct, although that does not mean their use by the average Joe would not be of value to him. Same way a shop manual would be of value to the average Joe who chooses to do his own auto/truck maintenance. Written for the certified tech? Sure. Valuable to the shade-tree mechanic? Without a doubt. Ah, but wait, you already made that point below, and refuted your previous one: It is like and contains the detail of ,say, a Volkswagen-trained mechanics shop manual, plus another manufacturers manual plus, etc. .......although not one iota as voluminous as that combination would be. Here is the second, and, by far, most pertinent : These repairmen had parts available to them. If a pen was damaged while being repaired, a new feed,section, whatever, was within, probably, arms length. With this statement you imply that unless something's close at hand, it's unavailable. Not true. I have had some pens apart for over two years waiting to find one small piece. At some pen show or another, or somewhere else, these parts will turn up. So your implication that Da Book is less-valuable because a particular damaged part may not be instantly available does not hold water. Unless you intend to invest in the repair of pens (the book, the tools, the time, the whole nine yards, and then want to compete for vintage parts), this is a waste of say (well it is $18.95 on the Bay) of at least $18.95 plus shipping. So you are saying that Da Book's audience is only people who intend to get seriously into pen repair in terms of lots of tools and lots of time? That's absurd and fails the test of logic as well as any simple Finance 101 ROI test. I can almost recite the contents of Da Book (both editions) page by page, and I can tell you that there is lots of information in there for the rank beginner, even someone who's afraid even to do a sac swap, information that's useful to people who never want to pull a pen apart. Any pen owner can benefit from knowing how his pen works, to get the most benefit from it, and Da Book has that information in spades. There are also sections on paper and ink and polishing that would benefit, again, people who never intend to repair a pen. Pen repair is not rocket science but it is not without its share of problems and surprises. True. So are all fun pastimes. The alternative in life is to sit in a chair in the corner of the room and stare vacantly into space until bedtime. Ask anyone about automobile restoration, horseback riding, mountain climbing, target shooting, programming, anything that makes life interesting enough to take another breath. Spend money. Have fun. Break stuff occasionally. Cuss and swear and laugh and live your life. How many junkers are you willing to overpay for in order to practice. Again you make a supposition that is faulty. Junkers are exactly what people do *not* overpay for. They are cheap and everywhere at pen shows, and people who are thinking straight will buy many when they turn up, enough to get them through according to their learning plan. Buying junk pens is an investment in one's future ability, just as a welder's purchase of scrap metal and welding rods, and consumption of electricity, are investments in himself toward a time when he'll be good at what he does and enjoy it even more. Same thing for an artist's paints and canvas, a programmer's development tools and manuals, and so on. And just when you think you are ready, bam, you screw the pooch. The pen goes off to be repaired in, probably, a more damaged condition than before you missed that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74. Ah, but there are two problems with this argument, maybe three. First, you imply the probability that a pen is going to get broken, or enough of a probability that fixing a pen shouldn't even be attempted using Da Book as a resource. That is just plain wrong, and I can personally vouch that I was using the first edition *way* before I knew of any alternate sources of repair information, and I think I broke maybe two or three pens in all of my first two or three years. People who fix pens break them occasionally. Big deal. Second, you make the assumption that a pen owner is going to throw up his hands after his first mistake and send the pen to someone else. Let me assure you that I have done this only once (subcontracted nib job) and I know of no other amateurs who've done this at any significant frequency. People who ask someone else for a rescue by sending their pens out are in the small minority, otherwise notices and warnings of The Great Dangers And Terrors And Heartbreak Of Pen Repair would be all over the boards, and no one would be attempting it except people with mechanical-engineering PhDs. Third, you can't damn Frank's book because of someone's missing "that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74." The information is there, and it's up to the purchaser to read it. If I were doing a brake job on a truck and I missed the information on page 567 of the shop manual about tightening the lug nuts to 140 foot-pounds, it's not the shop manual's fault that the wheels fell off the truck a month later. You can glean as much information as you need off the various pen sites. Not necessarily, and nowhere near as much as is in Da Book, and what the information needed can't be gotten from the Internet? Another aspect to this is, would you rather fix pens or would you rather chase down information bit by bit, as it's required? Blandolf has already given you excellent advice regarding the Pelikan nibs. Pen Hero lists hunderds of sites and Richard Binders site defines the terminology, explains the basics and has nice contemporary illustrations (I believe he uses Photoshop) that are easy to read visuals. (His graphic [ on Pentrace] illustrating the why in Why does my brand new Pelikan skip?was most informative in showing that the problem is the fault of the manufacturer of the nib.) The info is out there and it is gratis. And a Mottishaw nib on the way. Great. But whether that information is useful to the person who needs to fix a particular vintage pen is speculative at best. Save your money for the buying of pens. You are going to need it. No. Invest in Da Book. It will pay for itself with the first pen you don't break because of the things you will learn from reading it. QH |
#7
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Michael,
I have one 'nice pen' my pelikan m400. I also have a couple of pens that I've picked up. One nice Eversharp desk pen that I got for $8.00. It needed a new sack. I got the book, purchased a sack assortment from Sam at Pendemonium and in one hour I had a funtioning, beautiful 14k nibbed desk pen and it felt wonderful to have done it myself. Frank's book is wonderful to help explain things. Some items are for the more experienced but if you have a brain and some patience, that book and this group can help you with nearly everything pen related. Frank himself is a remarkable fount of information. Not always delivered with sugar, but you can be assured that it is backed by actual experience. Good luck, Wendy "Michael Oates" wrote in message ... Hi, I would like to thank 'ALL' who have given advice on this (I have also had an email from Frank). Both arguments for and against getting the book for a beginner are valid, especially if money was a consideration, yes, getting a pen maybe better than getting the book. But over all, I have concluded that having the information on how various pens work and how a pen could be repaired if indeed it could be, can help in the purchase of pens by judging how much effort and therefore cost could be involved in their repair even if I do not do this myself and at this stage I would not. So I 'may' be getting the book. To be quite honest I do not know if I want to go along the vintage pen collection route or just get new ones. My main reason for having pens is to use them, and to enjoy using them. Time will tell, but something tells me, (from reading allot on the subject over the past couple of weeks) that I will not stop at three pens!!! There is something special about holding a beautiful pen that writes well, but I guess you all know that. I am already drooling over images of a Nakaya! Thanks, Mike Dubiel is considered the author of this book ,but editor is the more appropriate (and generous) description of his function. "Is considered?" That's an interesting choice of words that presupposes a conclusion. Let me correct you: he *is* the author. An editor arranges, culls, and screens prewritten content. FD wrote, himself, all of Da Book except for small sections that were (intentionally) reproduced from other sources. These materials were written for employees of those companies who were trained in the repair of a particular company's pens. The repairmen used them as a reference while on the job (although, I imagine that, like many jobs, certain repairs, if not all, became pro forma). They were not intended for the use by the public. If the materials to which you refer are the actual manufacturer-written pen-repair manuals, your statement is correct, although that does not mean their use by the average Joe would not be of value to him. Same way a shop manual would be of value to the average Joe who chooses to do his own auto/truck maintenance. Written for the certified tech? Sure. Valuable to the shade-tree mechanic? Without a doubt. Ah, but wait, you already made that point below, and refuted your previous one: It is like and contains the detail of ,say, a Volkswagen-trained mechanic's shop manual, plus another manufacturer's manual plus, etc. ........although not one iota as voluminous as that combination would be. Here is the second, and, by far, most pertinent : These repairmen had parts available to them. If a pen was damaged while being repaired, a new feed,section, whatever, was within, probably, arm's length. With this statement you imply that unless something's close at hand, it's unavailable. Not true. I have had some pens apart for over two years waiting to find one small piece. At some pen show or another, or somewhere else, these parts will turn up. So your implication that Da Book is less-valuable because a particular damaged part may not be instantly available does not hold water. Unless you intend to invest in the repair of pens (the book, the tools, the time, the whole nine yards, and then want to compete for vintage parts), this is a waste of say (well it is $18.95 on the Bay) of at least $18.95 plus shipping. So you are saying that Da Book's audience is only people who intend to get seriously into pen repair in terms of lots of tools and lots of time? That's absurd and fails the test of logic as well as any simple Finance 101 ROI test. I can almost recite the contents of Da Book (both editions) page by page, and I can tell you that there is lots of information in there for the rank beginner, even someone who's afraid even to do a sac swap, information that's useful to people who never want to pull a pen apart. Any pen owner can benefit from knowing how his pen works, to get the most benefit from it, and Da Book has that information in spades. There are also sections on paper and ink and polishing that would benefit, again, people who never intend to repair a pen. Pen repair is not rocket science but it is not without its share of problems and surprises. True. So are all fun pastimes. The alternative in life is to sit in a chair in the corner of the room and stare vacantly into space until bedtime. Ask anyone about automobile restoration, horseback riding, mountain climbing, target shooting, programming, anything that makes life interesting enough to take another breath. Spend money. Have fun. Break stuff occasionally. Cuss and swear and laugh and live your life. How many junkers are you willing to overpay for in order to practice. Again you make a supposition that is faulty. Junkers are exactly what people do *not* overpay for. They are cheap and everywhere at pen shows, and people who are thinking straight will buy many when they turn up, enough to get them through according to their learning plan. Buying junk pens is an investment in one's future ability, just as a welder's purchase of scrap metal and welding rods, and consumption of electricity, are investments in himself toward a time when he'll be good at what he does and enjoy it even more. Same thing for an artist's paints and canvas, a programmer's development tools and manuals, and so on. And just when you think you are ready, bam, you "screw the pooch". The pen goes off to be repaired in, probably, a more damaged condition than before you missed that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74. Ah, but there are two problems with this argument, maybe three. First, you imply the probability that a pen is going to get broken, or enough of a probability that fixing a pen shouldn't even be attempted using Da Book as a resource. That is just plain wrong, and I can personally vouch that I was using the first edition *way* before I knew of any alternate sources of repair information, and I think I broke maybe two or three pens in all of my first two or three years. People who fix pens break them occasionally. Big deal. Second, you make the assumption that a pen owner is going to throw up his hands after his first mistake and send the pen to someone else. Let me assure you that I have done this only once (subcontracted nib job) and I know of no other amateurs who've done this at any significant frequency. People who ask someone else for a rescue by sending their pens out are in the small minority, otherwise notices and warnings of The Great Dangers And Terrors And Heartbreak Of Pen Repair would be all over the boards, and no one would be attempting it except people with mechanical-engineering PhDs. Third, you can't damn Frank's book because of someone's missing "that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74." The information is there, and it's up to the purchaser to read it. If I were doing a brake job on a truck and I missed the information on page 567 of the shop manual about tightening the lug nuts to 140 foot-pounds, it's not the shop manual's fault that the wheels fell off the truck a month later. You can glean as much information as you need off the various pen sites. Not necessarily, and nowhere near as much as is in Da Book, and what the information needed can't be gotten from the Internet? Another aspect to this is, would you rather fix pens or would you rather chase down information bit by bit, as it's required? Blandolf has already given you excellent advice regarding the Pelikan nibs. Pen Hero lists hunderds of sites and Richard Binder's site defines the terminology, explains the basics and has nice contemporary illustrations (I believe he uses Photoshop) that are easy to read visuals. (His graphic [ on Pentrace] illustrating the why in "Why does my brand new Pelikan skip?"was most informative in showing that the problem is the fault of the manufacturer of the nib.) The info is out there and it is gratis. And a Mottishaw nib on the way. Great. But whether that information is useful to the person who needs to fix a particular vintage pen is speculative at best. Save your money for the buying of pens. You are going to need it. No. Invest in Da Book. It will pay for itself with the first pen you don't break because of the things you will learn from reading it. QH |
#8
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While Frank and I don't always see eye-to-eye and I've had as many
heated debates with him as Reid has (with perhaps a little more elan) I have to confess to having purchased this manual. Even though vintage is the focus, pens just haven't changed that much to make the repair information obsolete. And thus far the only tool I've seen that isn't available through many of the on-line resources is an "alcohol" lamp. I think it's worth the $. even if you never buy vintage. Are there other sources - you bet - and I've gotten great step-by-step instructions for disassembling and repairing my Sheaffer Craftsman from a couple of Pentrace folks. IMO, having *all* of these resources available online as well as with Mr. Dubiel's book, is worth the effort/$. We don't all think the same way, learn the same way, have the same ability (or lack thereof) to interpret 2D images into 3D or to interpret the written word into a 3D action. So one shouldn't limit their understanding of pens to just Frank's book or just Richard's pages or whatever... You won't find pretty pen pics in it or fascinating history. but its uses extend beyond vintage pens. Third, you can't damn Frank's book because of someone's missing "that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74." The information is there, and it's up to the purchaser to read it. well - not meaning to ding Mr. D here but the editor in me says "yes, it's there, but simply *reading* it isn't as straightforward as you imply. Still - doesn't take a rocket scientist to get through it. JMO, kcat |
#9
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Michael, go the vintage route. Not that you should neglect mods but the
oldies are goodies and general cheaper. As far as 20bucks for Frank's book, money well spent. Some people have a bone to pick, thus the criticism. QH in his eloquent post says it all. Welcome on board and enjoy the hobby. "Michael Oates" wrote in message ... Hi, I would like to thank 'ALL' who have given advice on this (I have also had an email from Frank). Both arguments for and against getting the book for a beginner are valid, especially if money was a consideration, yes, getting a pen maybe better than getting the book. But over all, I have concluded that having the information on how various pens work and how a pen could be repaired if indeed it could be, can help in the purchase of pens by judging how much effort and therefore cost could be involved in their repair even if I do not do this myself and at this stage I would not. So I 'may' be getting the book. To be quite honest I do not know if I want to go along the vintage pen collection route or just get new ones. My main reason for having pens is to use them, and to enjoy using them. Time will tell, but something tells me, (from reading allot on the subject over the past couple of weeks) that I will not stop at three pens!!! There is something special about holding a beautiful pen that writes well, but I guess you all know that. I am already drooling over images of a Nakaya! Thanks, Mike |
#10
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Subject: Da Book
From: Quarter Horseman A .nomail/A Date: Sat, Sep 13, 2003 6:08 AM Message-id: Dubiel is considered the author of this book ,but editor is the more appropriate (and generous) description of his function. "Is considered?" That's an interesting choice of words that presupposes a conclusion. Let me correct you: he *is* the author. An editor arranges, culls, and screens prewritten content. FD wrote, himself, all of Da Book except for small sections that were (intentionally) reproduced from other sources. Since the first paragraph of my post states that Da Book is a compilation (defined as the act of compiling. Compile: 1) to put together(documents, selections or other materials) in one book or work. 2) to make (a book, writing or the like) from various sources (also stated as to compose a (a book, etc) by gathering materials from various sources) and since you take no issue with that description, then by what logic are you subsequently concluding that "he *is* the author. I used the word editor (and if the word complilation is not in dispute) then it is a reasonable choice. Your statement concerning the writing of the book is contradictory : FD either wrote it all or he didn't. ("himself" is redundant). What constitutes a small section: two pages, twenty pages, more, less? I do not think that you are under the delusion that an "author" would 'unintentionally' reproduce materials and include said materials in a publication. Unless, of course, you are an Instructional Dean at a multi-culti institution of higher learning and dismissing cases of plagiarism is part of your job description. These materials were written for employees of those companies who were trained in the repair of a particular company’s pens. The repairmen used them as a reference while on the job (although, I imagine that, like many jobs, certain repairs, if not all, became pro forma). They were not intended for the use by the public. If the materials to which you refer are the actual manufacturer-written pen-repair manuals, your statement is correct, although that does not mean their use by the average Joe would not be of value to him. Same way a shop manual would be of value to the average Joe who chooses to do his own auto/truck maintenance. Written for the certified tech? Sure. Valuable to the shade-tree mechanic? Without a doubt. The shop manual is beyond the grasp of the average 'shade tree mechanic.' A gearhead - ok. How many people, at the time these shop manuals were in use by the pen companies, had any interest in repairing their pens themselves? The pen shops had loaners, correct? The logical answer would be between zero and none. Ah, but wait, you already made that point below, and refuted your previous one: It is like and contains the detail of ,say, a Volkswagen-trained mechanic’s shop manual, plus another manufacturer’s manual plus, etc. ........although not one iota as voluminous as that combination would be. I wrote in the third paragraph that the "The compilation is.......comprehensive". Reinforced is accurate. Not refuted. Here is the second, and, by far, most pertinent : These repairmen had parts available to them. If a pen was damaged while being repaired, a new feed,section, whatever, was within, probably, arm’s length. With this statement you imply that unless something's close at hand, it's unavailable. Not true. I have had some pens apart for over two years waiting to find one small piece. At some pen show or another, or somewhere else, these parts will turn up. So your implication that Da Book is less-valuable because a particular damaged part may not be instantly available does not hold water. This is a ludicrous conclusion on your part. I imply nothing of the sort. I wrote that "these repairmen had parts available to them". That means all parts necessary (and lots of them) for the repair of a company's line of pens. If a repairman, working in a shop or on a 'line', had to wait two years for a part or parts there would be hell to pay somewhere in the company structure. You are willing to wait two years for a part. What is the result if the part is faulty? You lose it? You break it? Two more years of waiting? You, inadvertently, confirm my point concerning the paucity of vintage parts. and I am only stating the reality of venturing into pen repair (which you list very nicely: pens apart for two years, waiting, parts will 'turn up', some pen show or another). I had no idea what the original poster's intentions were regarding direction but I saw( and see) no point in presenting a rosey picture of the situation nor encouraging any unwarranted expectations that may be attached to the mere purchase of a book. Unless you intend to invest in the repair of pens (the book, the tools, the time, the whole nine yards, and then want to compete for vintage parts), this is a waste of say (well it is $18.95 on the Bay) of at least $18.95 plus shipping. So you are saying that Da Book's audience is only people who intend to get seriously into pen repair in terms of lots of tools and lots of time? That's absurd and fails the test of logic as well as any simple Finance 101 ROI test. I can almost recite the contents of Da Book (both editions) page by page, and I can tell you that there is lots of information in there for the rank beginner, even someone who's afraid even to do a sac swap, information that's useful to people who never want to pull a pen apart. Any pen owner can benefit from knowing how his pen works, to get the most benefit from it, and Da Book has that information in spades. There are also sections on paper and ink and polishing that would benefit, again, people who never intend to repair a pen. I reiterate: I wrote that the book is comprehensive. Like any product the audience is comprised of those willing to buy it. Everything you list is available to an interested party at no cost in other venues. I used the extreme and felt that the original poster could extrapolate from that point. Do I think it is a waste of money. For me, yes. Pen repair is not rocket science but it is not without its share of problems and surprises. True. So are all fun pastimes. The alternative in life is to sit in a chair in the corner of the room and stare vacantly into space until bedtime. Ask anyone about automobile restoration, horseback riding, mountain climbing, target shooting, programming, anything that makes life interesting enough to take another breath. Spend money. Have fun. Break stuff occasionally. Cuss and swear and laugh and live your life. Oy. I guess one has to exercise those cliches every now and then. No harm. No foul. How many junkers are you willing to overpay for in order to practice. Again you make a supposition that is faulty. Junkers are exactly what people do *not* overpay for. They are cheap and everywhere at pen shows, and people who are thinking straight will buy many when they turn up, enough to get them through according to their learning plan. Buying junk pens is an investment in one's future ability, just as a welder's purchase of scrap metal and welding rods, and consumption of electricity, are investments in himself toward a time when he'll be good at what he does and enjoy it even more. Same thing for an artist's paints and canvas, a programmer's development tools and manuals, and so on. You are assuming a learning plan. If you pay for a junker, you have overpaid for it. Again, the caveats: pen shows, "turn up", and the really funny juxtaposition of "pen shows and people who are thinking straight". And just when you think you are ready, bam, you “screw the pooch”. The pen goes off to be repaired in, probably, a more damaged condition than before you missed that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74. Ah, but there are two problems with this argument, maybe three. This is not an argument. It is positing a hypothesis: As in: What if, just when you think you are ready? Second, you make the assumption that a pen owner is going to throw up his hands after his first mistake and send the pen to someone else. Let me assure you that I have done this only once (subcontracted nib job) and I know of no other amateurs who've done this at any significant frequency. People who ask someone else for a rescue by sending their pens out are in the small minority, otherwise notices and warnings of The Great Dangers And Terrors And Heartbreak Of Pen Repair would be all over the boards, and no one would be attempting it except people with mechanical-engineering PhDs. Sure. That's why all the noted repair people are backed up - no business. Third, you can't damn Frank's book because of someone's missing "that seemingly insignificant step on page, say, 74." The information is there, and it's up to the purchaser to read it. Where, in the statement regarding page 74, do I ,in any way, impune (damn) Da Book. I wrote "you" (the user of the book) missed the step. I did not write that the step was not there, misstated, in fine print or otherwise faulty. Only that you (the user) thought the step to be seemingly insignificant and that you (the user) suffered the consequence. You are out to lunch on this one. If I were doing a brake job on a truck and I missed the information on page 567 of the shop manual about tightening the lug nuts to 140 foot-pounds, it's not the shop manual's fault that the wheels fell off the truck a month later. Yeah. Who's going to sue a shop manual? If page 567 was ripped out of the book, you'd still be held responsible. You can glean as much information as you need off the various pen sites. Not necessarily, and nowhere near as much as is in Da Book, and what the information needed can't be gotten from the Internet? Another aspect to this is, would you rather fix pens or would you rather chase down information bit by bit, as it's required? Neither. I'd rather be target shooting, mountain climbing, staring vacantly into space, collecting a new cache of cliches. Blandolf has already given you excellent advice regarding the Pelikan nibs. Pen Hero lists hunderds of sites and Richard Binder’s site defines the terminology, explains the basics and has nice contemporary illustrations (I believe he uses Photoshop) that are easy to read visuals. (His graphic [ on Pentrace] illustrating the why in “Why does my brand new Pelikan skip?”was most informative in showing that the problem is the fault of the manufacturer of the nib.) The info is out there and it is gratis. And a Mottishaw nib on the way. Great. But whether that information is useful to the person who needs to fix a particular vintage pen is speculative at best. Right, and you can quote Da Book chapter and verse. But whether that information concerning your memory is useful to the person who needs to fix a particular vintage pen is speculative at best. Save your money for the buying of pens. You are going to need it. No. Invest in Da Book. It will pay for itself with the first pen you don't break because of the things you will learn from reading it. Yep, OP, you won't need money for pens. Now QH, explain this convoluted theory that the book will pay for itself with the first pen you don't break because of the things you will learn from reading it. The way I understand this is : the book will,in form of payment, give the purchaser the first pen (is this pen the purchaser's or the book's?) that the purchaser does not break because the purchaser can read and learn things from that pen. So the purchaser must break at least one pen in order to get to the first pen he doesn't break after he invests in Da Book in order to receive payment from said book. Just a second, I need a tabula raza here. Nope. But I did channel Fritz Hollings and he says he finds a" a whole lot personificationin' goin on here. And maybe some Prosopopeia 'n too." And this guy who bought the book also bought a Pelikan. Thank the stars those Pelikans are workhorses and he won't need Da Book except for some armchair entertainment. Reid McIntyre |
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