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#1
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Estie "Bill Signer" question
I've been working my way through the first issue of "Stylus"
since it showed up. Today, I was reading the article on pens of President Kennedy. A few sentences in the article, along with one of the pictures, were intriguing (to me, anyhow :0). The author, John Loring, states: "This is an Esterbrook desk pen with a black nib holder and a clear plastic taper imprinted 'The President -- The White House'. The pen appears to be a dip pen, but the black nib holder assembly house a feed, so technically, it is a fountain pen with limited ink-storage capacity." (pg. 72) On the bottom of pg. 69, there is a photo of five of these pens. A few have rotated just enough so that the combs of the feeds are barely visible. From the quote, above, I wondered if the pen couldn't be an Estie Dip-Less. The nibs in the photos looked like Renew Points to me, but I've never seen a Dip-Less in person. However from illustrations in the couple of Estie catalogs I've seen, combs on the feed would not be visible on a Dip-Less pen, at least not at the slight amount of rotation of the pens in the photo. If they are Renew Points, I can't see how the pen would hold any quantity of ink based on the photo, which leads me to think the pen would have been used as a dip pen. After all, how much ink does an FP need to hold if you're going to sign your name once, then give the pen away as a commemoration? Anybody have an idea about this? Enquiring minds want to know. Mark Z. who doesn't even want to think about getting into what is "technically" a fountain pen ;0) |
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#2
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mz wrote:
"This is an Esterbrook desk pen with a black nib holder and a clear plastic taper imprinted 'The President -- The White House'. The pen appears to be a dip pen, but the black nib holder assembly house a feed, so technically, it is a fountain pen with limited ink-storage capacity." (pg. 72) On the bottom of pg. 69, there is a photo of five of these pens. A few have rotated just enough so that the combs of the feeds are barely visible. From the quote, above, I wondered if the pen couldn't be an Estie Dip-Less. The nibs in the photos looked like Renew Points to me, but I've never seen a Dip-Less in person. However from illustrations in the couple of Estie catalogs I've seen, combs on the feed would not be visible on a Dip-Less pen, at least not at the slight amount of rotation of the pens in the photo. If they are Renew Points, I can't see how the pen would hold any quantity of ink based on the photo, which leads me to think the pen would have been used as a dip pen. After all, how much ink does an FP need to hold if you're going to sign your name once, then give the pen away as a commemoration? Anybody have an idea about this? Enquiring minds want to know. All Esterbrook dip pens held at least enough ink for several lines, more usually more than a page of normal writing. these are not "dip" nibs in terms of standard brass or steel nibs used with no feed at all. When a feed is added the feed holds enough ink for 100 or more average words per dip. In fact the average is, or was claimed to be about 300 words per dip. Estie Renew points are the standard nib Esterbrook used in all their dip pen sets including the so called Dip-Less style, which just meant a pen that is, uhh dipped less due to the feed. Its still a dip pen. Estie was still selling standard dip NIBS at the time for use in pen holders without feeds but thats another thing entirely. No feed, no writing "tip" at all on most of those styles and ink capacity ranged from a word or two to a line or two at most on average. These weren't used by the White House since WW2 or so as far as I know. Frank |
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mz wrote:
Here's what I really wanted to know: Did those Estie "Bill Signers" use Renew Points or Dip-Less points and feeds? They are the same thing. The pen holder and base were the "dip-less" items, not the nib and feed. At some point Estie may have applied different lables to the nibs and feeds but its still the same thing and interchangable via the same screw threads. Depending on when made (not the name used) the feed may or may not have had more or less visible combs. Frank |
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mz wrote:
Thanks, Frank. Just showing my inexperience, I guess. I thought they were different because the nib and feed of the Dip-Less could be removed from the unit that screwed into the section, so the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans), requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs. You still have it wrong. They are the SAME thing. There is NO difference. They are never supposed to be removed from the feed or collar that holds the feed and nib together as a unit. Of course it is possible to do so regardless of the design. One more time--there is no such thing as a Dip-Less nib and a Renew nib in terms of any difference. It is one and exactly the same renewable screw in combination nib and feed unit assembly. The feed of a Dip-Less set is never supposed to be removed except as part of the standard Esterbrook unscrewable nib unit which, once again, is exactly the same unit used in their fountain pens. Frank |
#7
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mz wrote:
Thanks, Frank. Just showing my inexperience, I guess. I thought they were different because the nib and feed of the Dip-Less could be removed from the unit that screwed into the section, so the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans), requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs. You still have it wrong. They are the SAME thing. There is NO difference. They are never supposed to be removed from the feed or collar that holds the feed and nib together as a unit. Of course it is possible to do so regardless of the design. One more time--there is no such thing as a Dip-Less nib and a Renew nib in terms of any difference. It is one and exactly the same renewable screw in combination nib and feed unit assembly. The feed of a Dip-Less set is never supposed to be removed except as part of the standard Esterbrook unscrewable nib unit which, once again, is exactly the same unit used in their fountain pens. Frank |
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#9
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mz wrote: ... the nib alone could be replaced with the same feed and fitted back into the same unit, while the nib and feed of the Renew Points were integral to the unit (like modern Pelikans), requiring the entire unit to be replaced when changing nibs. Actually, it's quite simple to pop a Pelikan nib out of a modern Pelikan nib/feed assembly. The nib/feed assembly consists of three pieces: feed, feed ring, and nib.... that's it. The feed ring is friction fit over the nib and around the feed, thus holding those two pieces together. Unscrew the nib/feed assembly and use a knock-out block to separate the feed ring and feeder thus freeing the nib. --- B |
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