What is THE Book on Fountain Pens?

If you're interested in software for reading newsgroups, one of the
best starting points is www.newsreaders.com which has links to just
about every existing newsreader for just about every major platform.
Most of these applications are free!

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:09:08 -0500, Tim McNamara said:


Tim These standards existed long before Bill Gates wrote his
Tim first line of DOS code. The first newsreader, rn, was
Tim written 30+ years ago.

Bill Gates didn't write DOS. He bought a CP/M clone called QDOS from
Seattle Computing Products in an underhanded deal and turned around
and sold it to IBM as PC-DOS. There was rewriting, fiddling, and
stealing from Unix to come, but it's doubtful Bill did any of the
dirty work himself. Otherwise, I doubt that he would he have hired
QDOS's author to help MS employees rewrite it into PC-DOS.


--


If our behavior is strict, we do not need fun!

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:59:15 -0400, Fred said:

Fred On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:15:15 -0400, Garglemonster
Fred wrote:

Bill Gates didn't write DOS. He bought a CP/M clone called QDOS from
Seattle Computing Products in an underhanded deal

Fred Underhanded deal? Perhaps you know something I don't, but
Fred AFAIK SCP was happy to take Mr. Gates money.

SCP later sued Microsoft for US$ 60 million. It was settled out of
court for an undisclosed amount of cash. This indicates to me that
not everyone was equally happy with the deal.


--


You deserve something more life affirming like a tree or a flower or
a patch of grass or a singing little BLUEBIRD.

Hi Frank

Yes, I agree that it was. But not sure about "by far" as the Umeda and
Omori paperback came out in 1978 leaving room for discussion as to which was
actually produced first: But if you will remember, in those days there
weren't a lot of pens around (in collections) and even fewer major dealers
with clienteles outside their home towns (only Johnny Cuevas and Cliff
himself?) and certain pens 'did the rounds'. Thus if you look at the
original Cliff book you will see a green deco band with minor disolouration
at the top of the cap and a broken clip (pens really were difficult to get
hold of to photograph in those days! Especially if you were a hermit who
never ventured out of darkest Florida)

And if you then look at the Umeda and Omori book, Hey Presto, the same pen
with the still broken off clip. In fact it appeared later in other books as
well

For a long time (until Lambrou managed to get the Chicago boys to write his
first one) despite being largely in japanese, the Nakazono book was regarded
as being so encyclopaedic that it was the standard work in the field.
Remember the Maki'e Skyline and the fabled Eversharp silver-inlaid, (-or
was it abilone? no one ever saw it so no one knew), - safety pen?
Jonathan


wrote:
Nancy Handy wrote:


I was under the impression that Cliff's book was the original book,
but apparently it might not have been.

It was by far. 1977. Paperback, not large but many pages in color.
Rather useless by todays standards other than its historical
importance to pen collecting since it did really "start" the hobby as
there was nothing formal before it and within 2 or 3 years after it
pen shows, other books, newsletters (mainly Cliff's own, although
some others as well) all followed. No book before it. Period. No
book after it could ever have the impact of this small book. No
matter how large or how well done. Cliff began it. Everyone else
followed. Myself included.

I don't think its far to complain about the lack of foreign pens in
early books. None of the early books gave much notice to non-US made
pens. Which was as it should have been for books printed in the US
and directed at a US market. As I pointed out many times until the
mid 1980s it was nearly impossible to buy non-US made pens in the US
with the exception of MBs and an occasional pen from Japan. I never
saw a Pelikan in any store in my life before the mid 80s. Never yet
in 50 years of looking have I ever seen a vintage Omas outside of a
pen show. Such pens have almost all been brought here by European
collectors or travelers. Nothing wrong with that, but Cliff, like
myself had virtually no exposue to non-US made pens in 1977. Almost
no one here did unless they travled overseas. I'm sure Cliff knew
about MBs but to not include them in his first book was correct since
it was a book on collecting old VINTAGE fountain pens and it was all
but impossible to find a vintage MB in the US back then since MBs
were also not usually sold here until the 1960s and Cliff's book was
concentrated on pens from the 50s back and its main info was on pens
before WW2. It never was intended to be about pens of the "world"
since the entire world of pens in the US consisted of US made pens at
the time. It was a book about collecting pens in the US and it
reflected well what the hobby was and would become in the US back
then as well as what the average US collector could hopefully find
here. Frank

My father's son wrote:

Hi Frank

Yes, I agree that it was. But not sure about "by far" as the Umeda and
Omori paperback came out in 1978 leaving room for discussion as to which was
actually produced first: But if you will remember, in those days there
weren't a lot of pens around (in collections) and even fewer major dealers
with clienteles outside their home towns (only Johnny Cuevas and Cliff
himself?) and certain pens 'did the rounds'. Thus if you look at the
original Cliff book you will see a green deco band with minor disolouration
at the top of the cap and a broken clip (pens really were difficult to get
hold of to photograph in those days! Especially if you were a hermit who
never ventured out of darkest Florida)

And if you then look at the Umeda and Omori book, Hey Presto, the same pen
with the still broken off clip. In fact it appeared later in other books as
well

For a long time (until Lambrou managed to get the Chicago boys to write his
first one) despite being largely in japanese, the Nakazono book was regarded
as being so encyclopaedic that it was the standard work in the field.
Remember the Maki'e Skyline and the fabled Eversharp silver-inlaid, (-or
was it abilone? no one ever saw it so no one knew), - safety pen?
Jonathan

wrote:
Nancy Handy wrote:


I was under the impression that Cliff's book was the original book,
but apparently it might not have been.

It was by far. 1977. Paperback, not large but many pages in color.
Rather useless by todays standards other than its historical
importance to pen collecting since it did really "start" the hobby as
there was nothing formal before it and within 2 or 3 years after it
pen shows, other books, newsletters (mainly Cliff's own, although
some others as well) all followed. No book before it. Period. No
book after it could ever have the impact of this small book. No
matter how large or how well done. Cliff began it. Everyone else
followed. Myself included.

I don't think its far to complain about the lack of foreign pens in
early books. None of the early books gave much notice to non-US made
pens. Which was as it should have been for books printed in the US
and directed at a US market. As I pointed out many times until the
mid 1980s it was nearly impossible to buy non-US made pens in the US
with the exception of MBs and an occasional pen from Japan. I never
saw a Pelikan in any store in my life before the mid 80s. Never yet
in 50 years of looking have I ever seen a vintage Omas outside of a
pen show. Such pens have almost all been brought here by European
collectors or travelers. Nothing wrong with that, but Cliff, like
myself had virtually no exposue to non-US made pens in 1977. Almost
no one here did unless they travled overseas. I'm sure Cliff knew
about MBs but to not include them in his first book was correct since
it was a book on collecting old VINTAGE fountain pens and it was all
but impossible to find a vintage MB in the US back then since MBs
were also not usually sold here until the 1960s and Cliff's book was
concentrated on pens from the 50s back and its main info was on pens
before WW2. It never was intended to be about pens of the "world"
since the entire world of pens in the US consisted of US made pens at
the time. It was a book about collecting pens in the US and it
reflected well what the hobby was and would become in the US back
then as well as what the average US collector could hopefully find
here. Frank

My father's son wrote:

Hi Frank

But not sure about "by far" as the Umeda and
Omori paperback came out in 1978 leaving room for discussion as to which was
actually produced first:

Well, 1977 comes before 1978 and I'm not sure I ever heard of a "Umeda"
book. If I did see it back then for one reason or another it made
little impression. (Foreign pens? Not in English? Whatever.) I make
no apology for living in the United States and being a US based
collector who had and still has little interest in pens that were never
sold here nor used here in the US. Today I'll look at such "foreign"
pens as a historical or technical interest but there are very few I care
to own or use.

If another pen book was printed in another country and not sold nor
advertised in the US how was a US colector to know? Anymore than
perhaps someone in China would not have known about Cliff's book in
1977.

More important was Cliff's newsletter established just after his book
came out that led to the first public pen shows and direct contact
between collectors. We must also note Cliffs later re-selling and
re-printing of those very newsletters removed all such content and
contact info so anyone who may have the early issues of the PFC more
likley has the later versions which are totally different than the
originals. I have the originals and they are totally unlike what Cliff
was selling as "orginals" by 1980 or so.

Well I never said Cliff wasn't a strange duck. Still we must and
should give him his due credit.

A year or so after Cliff's newsletter Stuart established the excellent
monthly FPX newsletter that still is in many ways better than anything
anyone does today. Sadly that only lasted 13 issues.

Another year or so after that came the first announcement of the
upcoming Pen World magazine. Which was a rather far cry from the Pen
World of today in terms of quality and interest to collectors of vintage
pens. Frank

I don't accept that I am being impolite and this trick always worked and I
still try to employ it (not absolutely) even though my new book costs a
bit
more. I contend that it is a useful strategy when most people who walk
around shows seem to want only to spend actual money on new pens, the book
costs only $32.50. Especially when someone is trying to use you for a
free
valuation of their whole collection. It is especially useful at places
like
the new Ft Lauderdale show where demographically the local median income
is
quite high and 95% of the people are only there to buy knives.

I collect pocket knives too.
Out of curiosity, how many other pen people here collect pocket knives too?

Regards
Kit Lewis
(no connection with the other C. Lewis on this NG)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/2003

I would estimate that it is possibly as high as 5 or 7%. Given the
coincidence factor, this is a pretty high number, higher in places like
South Florida

Licensed to Quill

Kit Lewis wrote:
I don't accept that I am being impolite and this trick always worked
and I still try to employ it (not absolutely) even though my new
book costs a bit more. I contend that it is a useful strategy when
most people who walk around shows seem to want only to spend actual
money on new pens, the book costs only $32.50. Especially when
someone is trying to use you for a free valuation of their whole
collection. It is especially useful at places like the new Ft
Lauderdale show where demographically the local median income is
quite high and 95% of the people are only there to buy knives.

I collect pocket knives too.
Out of curiosity, how many other pen people here collect pocket
knives too?

Regards
Kit Lewis
(no connection with the other C. Lewis on this NG)


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 23/09/2003

Fred wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:39:53 -0400, Garglemonster
wrote:


Fred Underhanded deal? Perhaps you know something I don't, but
Fred AFAIK SCP was happy to take Mr. Gates money.

SCP later sued Microsoft for US$ 60 million. It was settled out of
court for an undisclosed amount of cash. This indicates to me that
not everyone was equally happy with the deal.


So why did they sell to Mr. Gates originally? I can understand that
later, when they saw what he did with their product, they were kicking
themselves and were very unhappy, but that's an after the fact
remorse.

If they had simply sold it to Gates, the case would have been baseless
and there wouldn't have been a settlement. Obviously they meant to (and
contractually) held a stake in the product, and were denied sharing the
profit as agreed. That was underhanded.