Ink Question

Mark Atwood writes:

Mark Atwood writes:
I've ordered a bottle of the black, and a bottle of this new
Contract Blue. I look forward to trying them out.

And they showed up in the mail today.
Wow. That's a deep black!
Wow. That's a great blue!

I took a sheet of heavy writing paper, and using a q-tip, applied some
strokes of Noodler Black and some strokes of Noodler Aquamarine
Contract, and the waited for it to dry completely. I mixed up a batch
of bleaching solution (a few capfuls of store brand clorine bleach in
a half gallon of water) and poured it into a pyrex tray, and then
slid the paper into the solution, covered it, and let it sit.

The next day, I checked it. No apparant fading. The ink was still
there, with no fade and no color change.



Then I took a sheet of the same kind of paper, and again using q-tips,
made an array of test patches, one for each kind of bottled ink I
possess.

some random brand of India Ink
Noodlers Black
Noodlers Aquamarine Contract
Shaeffer Kings Gold
Private Reserve Candy Apple Red
Private Reserve Sherwood Green
Private Reserve Lake Placid Blue
Private Reserve Blue Suede
Private Reserve Grey Flannel

Again, I waited for it to dry completely, and then slipped the page into
the same tray of bleaching solution.

I was expecting to let it sit for a day again, but didn't bother.

In TEN MINUTES, all the test patches except for the India and the
Noodlers ink had faded completely away. The PR Red took less than a
minute to completely disappear, I stood there and watched it fade
away.

And the india ink started to "lift" and smear under the water, and
made a noticable "smear" when I lifted the page out of the water and
let it drain off.


At least w.r.t. chlorine bleach, Noodlers lives up to it's claims.

--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
| you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus

"Patrick Lamb" wrote in message
news
Scaupaug wrote:
Noodler's Black:

It was made so that you could dry out the bottle in the dry air near a
coal
stove and then reconstitute it by adding water. Put a sample in a glass
or
petrii dish - let it dry...then simply stir plain old water back in to
the same
level the ink was at when freshly poured - and you'll see for yourself.

The ink can rinse off glass, poly plastics, nylon, celluloid, acrylics,
lucite,
hard rubber, sheet rubber, sheet stainless steel, gold, palladium, pure
latex -
& if not a simple rinse then with the simple action of a light brushing
with
water (example: if the pen dried out multiple fillings and was left in a
hot
drawer for six months or other long period, most will still wash out -
but as
with any ink, you'll need to clean such a pen - especially Parker Vacs
(but not
a Sheaffer plunger of course, that filler cleans itself nicely after
such a
duration with a few plunges in water ;-)...it is of course always best
to rinse
out the pens BEFORE long term storage when using ANY ink)..... Now for
the
interesting part. The ink will alter itself in reaction to cellulose
paper
and once DRIED on cellulose paper you will not be able to hinder its
permanence
on that paper with: water, UV radiation, alcohol, ammonia, bleach,
acetone, and
various industrial solvents and detergents often associated with the
shady
people who alter documents.

Does this mean I no longer have to worry about ink-stained fingers?
Soak my skin in water, and since it's not cellulose paper, it should
rinse right off?

Yes, I received my Noodler's contract blue yesterday and it rinsed off of my
fingers a whole lot more easily than the spot of Sheaffer blue that I had on
the same hand that I had to use soap and much more rubbing to remove.

I was amazed. (I like the color, too.)


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Just a further thought on this subject and that concerns the long term
stability of the ink as produced. I've used reactive dyes in the past for
silk painting and generally made up a solution that gets used in a couple of
days. Most of the manufacturers advise that these dyes have a shelf life of
months, if not years, when in powder form, but this reduces to days when in
solution. One or two state up to 3 months but I have been unable to find any
that claim to last beyond this. I have no idea what the effects of long
term storage would be but I'd be interested to be reassured that Nathan's
inks will last the course. I recall Frank stating numerous times in this
group that inks such as Skrip could be stored for many years with no
noticeable deterioration.

Reactive dyes do look like the way to go for permenance on paper and I for
one am very tempted to carry out home experiments in this area, as they are
easily available even in a backwater like rural Suffolk (lots of arty farty
types out here who delight in dying anything that'll stand still long
enough, and a few that won't). Better get the stuff shipped to the UK soon,
Nathan, or we'll all be brewing our own!

Gordon


Gordon and others,

I tried those particular dyes in experiments years ago and found them to be
thin, far to thin for a good fountain pen ink (keep in mind, Frank was a
textile dye expert...Fall River being near me and a large textile center as
well). They also faded like ghosts in the face of concentrated UV light. A
retired FBI agent gave me a list of things an ink should be able to resist -
and those are the items I gradually checked off (bleach, ammonia, acetone,
alcohol, certain detergents, UV light, acid rain, etc...). Those dyes not only
failed too many tests - they also did indeed have too short a shelf life.
There were also problems with sedimentation that were to the point of being
hopeless.

So - my ink is different. Heck, it went through numerous changes along the way
just in the past 6 months alone. I still consider the inks all works in
progress...because if an improvement is discovered - you can bet I'm going to
integrate it into the inks if I can! The main enemy of shelf life remains a
dirty pen with odd bacteria or killer molds not yet known - and I'll hold no
punches in the fight to kill them in advance.

Shah's Rose should be available within 2 weeks (fingers crossed) as it has been
perfected (just need time to make it!) - it is the dead ringer for the lighter
tone version of Persian Rose some people asked for a few weeks ago (the more
intense, darker tone remains "Ottoman Rose"). "Nigh****chman's ink" is not
quite ready - but will enable people who work at night to write reports in
pitch darkness as it has an organic based phosphorescence when the bottle is
stored in sunlight during the day (an ink that LOVES sunlight!). Before the
year is up - true whites and pastels...etc...all water based inks for fountain
pens. If I can help in the struggle to make the fountain pen's utility
manifest to even the most stubborn steel ball addict - it will be worth it.
With Noodler's - no steel ball has greater utility than your fountain pen!

You say you have not yet got a UK supplier. Do you have a European
supplier? Shipping costs are much cheaper from Europe.

Please let me know.

Tony Stanford.

If a European or UK distributor wants the job...please contact me through he
http://www.noodlersink.com and they'll forward me the info. I'll then be
calling you to try and get the ink more readily available there (my e-mail
remains far beyond my ability to sort through it as of this time). As it is,
I'm still struggling to get it more available here...but in time the kinks will
be worked out (or I'll never sleep again). A few stores have experimented with
the ink there - but no distributor in Europe as of this time. I do wish
shipping costs were not so extreme for such a product - any collector run a
shipping company moving freight to the UK/Europe out there in pendom?. ;-(

The ink can't be made in Europe though - it has to be shipped from the USA
somehow. The scale of raw materials is so small, and was developed here...it
is not a product I can just switch from one to another as sheaffer did with
Slovenia/Slovakia. It's not an old/established commodity type product any
multinational can just move about to any country at a whim. It's still a work
in progress - alive and responding to the market's evolving desires...certainly
far from being a fixed position.

ospam (Scaupaug) writes:
a list of things an ink should be able to resist -
and those are the items I gradually checked off (bleach, ammonia, acetone,
alcohol, certain detergents, UV light, acid rain, etc...).

Gasoline? Oxygen Bleach? Hydrogen Peroxide?

--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
| you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus

Nathan,

Sorry to bug you with some quick questions that may have been asked before.

Is there a color you have created to copy NOS Skrip Burgundy?

Also - on my monitor (admittedly not properly calibrated but close) "Beaver"
looks close. But the name implies it's actually a brown.

I know I've said it already but love that Saguaro Wine - do tell me it's not
going to change.

Good stuff, Nathan.

"Bluesea" wrote in message
...

"Patrick Lamb" wrote in message
news

Does this mean I no longer have to worry about ink-stained fingers?
Soak my skin in water, and since it's not cellulose paper, it should
rinse right off?

Yes, I received my Noodler's contract blue yesterday and it rinsed off of
my
fingers a whole lot more easily than the spot of Sheaffer blue that I had
on
the same hand that I had to use soap and much more rubbing to remove.

Slight qualification due to more experience -

A heavy spot of ink on rough, callused skin required soap and moderate use
of a nail brush to remove. OTOH, I can still see the remains of a spot of
Pelikan blue at the base of my ring finger (how did it get there?!) on the
same hand two days later .


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:41:14 GMT, "JP"
wrote:

After going through the rainbow experience with PR and Herbin
I became totally enamored with the crispness and high contrast of black on
the page.
I've got Penman, Pelikan, Skrip, Quink, Montblanc, Aurora and Waterman's.
I would agree that the Aurora is the blackest.

After I first read about the water test a few months ago I tried it on all
my inks,
two to three minutes to dry and then under the kitchen sprayer.
All will result in a surviving address, though the montblanc fades badly,
the pelikan not quite as bad.

If you use the ink on a small sample, say addressing a letter, using
a binder which you can get at any art supply store will make the
ink color fast. Of course that is not practical if you've handwritten
a hundred pages. In a pinch hair spray will do.

I was having trouble with a vintage watermans that was dripping ink through
the
feed if I paused too long to think.
Your pen is broken. I have this problem with pens that use sac style
converters ( the only exception seems to be old Parker sac-style
converters which never seemed to break ). The sac would start leaking
and the pen would drip. I would "fix" the pen by replacing the
converter with a cartridge. It got so bad that I stop using sac style
converter and just refilled cartridges with a syringe.

"Strider" wrote in message
...
I was having trouble with a vintage watermans that was dripping ink
through
the
feed if I paused too long to think.
Your pen is broken. I have this problem with pens that use sac style
converters ( the only exception seems to be old Parker sac-style
converters which never seemed to break ). The sac would start leaking
and the pen would drip.

I don't know how old the vintage Waterman's is. However, if the pen is an
eye dropper filler, the dripping is often a sign that the pen simply needs
to be refilled. Two facts: air in the barrel expands more than ink with
warm temperature; as the ink level gets low, there is more and more air in
the barrel. Thus, the warmth from your hand warms the pen as you write,
causing the air in the barrel to expand, and this (in turn) causes the pen
to drip or leave "blobs" when you are writing. The remedy for this
phenomenon is simply to refill the pen. If the pen is not an eye dropper
filler, then I agree with "Strider" that the filling system needs attention.

Good Luck,

Dave J

"Dave J" wrote in message
ink.net...

causing the air in the barrel to expand, and this (in turn) causes the pen
to drip or leave "blobs" when you are writing. The remedy for this
phenomenon is simply to refill the pen. If the pen is not an eye dropper
filler, then I agree with "Strider" that the filling system needs
attention.

If a restorer used a sac that was too large for the pen, even if it is fully
intact, warmth from your hand can also cause this problem. So can a small
air leak.

a significant air leak will usually result in a large splat vs. a spot.

KCat - splat victim