Rock-Ola 454 write-in problems

Hello!
I recently bought a rock-ola 454 (I already have one 454, this is a
second, in way better cosmetic condition)...

I've been tinkering with it, and wanted some advice on a couple issues.

First, when I got the machine, it wouldn't write in. It would just scan and
scan and scan. If you flipped a pin, the read-out carriage would rotate,
find it, and start playing the record, and the amp works fine on it, but it
wouldn't write-in. As a matter of fact, even with the pin tripped the
write-in would keep scanning, even while the record started playing (which I
guess is normal).

So, I mess around with it a little bit, which is pretty easy to do, since I
have again another 454 in the house! I eventually tried switching the two
red 1300 series relays (write-in relay, and stop relay) from my working
machine, to my project machine, and partially fixed the problem. It's
working sporadically now... some times when you select, it immediately
launches the write-in carriage, and it will select and engage the pin,
triggering the read-out, etc. everything works great.

Sometimes, however, when you select, it 'hangs' on the third number.
Basically the write-in carriage doesn't start turning, and the selector
stays engaged. It's sporadic, though.

I'm thinking that this is possibly something in the selector assembly? I
haven't cleaned it yet. I lightly cleaned the wiper boards on the pin bank
in the bottom, but havne't touched the selector assembly.

Am I on the right track here? Is there something else I should be looking
at?

Any help would be greatly appreciated... and if anyone has two 1300 series
red relays they'd like to sell, I'd be interested in that, as well.

Thanks,

Ron

I generally have found that the write in slip rings AND the write in
carriage wiper fingers need a good cleaning. You have to remove those
units to do the job properly.

Sometimes I've had to take the plug-in red and white relays apart to
clean/file the contacts.

First, when I got the machine, it wouldn't write in. It would just scan
and
scan and scan. If you flipped a pin, the read-out carriage would rotate,
find it, and start playing the record, and the amp works fine on it, but
it
wouldn't write-in. As a matter of fact, even with the pin tripped the
write-in would keep scanning, even while the record started playing (which
I
guess is normal).

No, this is not normal. When the record is playing, the write-in should be
idle.

Sometimes, however, when you select, it 'hangs' on the third number.
Basically the write-in carriage doesn't start turning, and the selector
stays engaged. It's sporadic, though.

I've had the same problem on my 454 before. Clean the write-in fingers and
contacts thoroughly. That seem to be the main cause for the problem (for
mine at least, anyways). Rubbing alcohol can clean it pretty good.

Bill

It's OK for write -in to run when a record is playing, that's how you
make the next selection.
AS mentioned give the slip ring assembly a good cleaning. If your
fingers are nimble, you do not have to remove anything. First clean
with alcohol. Then take a synthetic scrub pad or a piece of light emory
paper and clean the rings and rivet heads. Flip the emory paper over so
the rough side is to the left. Run the wiper arm over the paper, you
can move this arm by hand. Clean with alcohol again. Give a light spray
of WD-40 onto the assembly and spin the arms around a couple of times,
this cuts the friction.
Next look at the large Molex plug that comes off the pin bank. Spray
that with WD-40 or contact cleaner.. Don't forget the little piggyback
one..
AS for third digit hanging up. If keyboard reset button will release
it, prblemis with latch/lockbar switches under keybank. If not, problem
is in red relays or ADR relay in credit unit or there maybe too much
friction for the motor to turn the arm..
I have good used relays, but unless they are really pitted, they can be
cleaned up.
Charlie

Hi Charlie;
Yes, I assumed it was alright for the write-in to run with the record
playing, if you're selecting more songs, thanks for confirming that.

The reset button does reset it, on the third one. In my opinion, what's
happening is, when you depress a button, it may not send the signal that the
button was depressed, but the switch on the end of the selector is opened,
turning on the 'first digit' light and moving you on to the second button
press... so when you press the third button, it holds in, because the switch
has been opened three times, but it hasn't sent three signals and thus can't
tell the write in arm where to go! Some of the buttons must not be making
good contact. I'm still looking for my manual on how to take the selector
assembly apart, I'll let everybody know what happens.

I'll try cleaning the relays, too... thanks guys!

Ron
"CHARLIE MAIER" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's OK for write -in to run when a record is playing, that's how you
make the next selection.
AS mentioned give the slip ring assembly a good cleaning. If your
fingers are nimble, you do not have to remove anything. First clean
with alcohol. Then take a synthetic scrub pad or a piece of light emory
paper and clean the rings and rivet heads. Flip the emory paper over so
the rough side is to the left. Run the wiper arm over the paper, you
can move this arm by hand. Clean with alcohol again. Give a light spray
of WD-40 onto the assembly and spin the arms around a couple of times,
this cuts the friction.
Next look at the large Molex plug that comes off the pin bank. Spray
that with WD-40 or contact cleaner.. Don't forget the little piggyback
one..
AS for third digit hanging up. If keyboard reset button will release
it, prblemis with latch/lockbar switches under keybank. If not, problem
is in red relays or ADR relay in credit unit or there maybe too much
friction for the motor to turn the arm..
I have good used relays, but unless they are really pitted, they can be
cleaned up.
Charlie

You are off theory about the signals. First and second digits turn on
SCRs. Third digit is direct wire to pin bank, Again the way it works is
when the third digit latches it closes the locbar/latch switces. This
causes the write in relay to energize. This starts the motor. If the
reset at the keyboard releases the latched down button, then the write
in relay has not energized. Your problem is with dirty or mispadjusted
lockbar/latch switches or in the wiring harness. Not in the keyboard
slide switches. Get out a burnishing tool and clean and gap them.
Charlie

Yes, I assumed it was alright for the write-in to run with the record
playing, if you're selecting more songs, thanks for confirming that.

My misunderstanding. I thought you were saying that it is constantly
running even if a record is not being selected.

That's a whoopsies!

Bill

Thanks for explaining that more, Charlie... that's what I get for trying to
guess how they work! I looked around and found my manual, and looked
through it so it would make more sense. I'll try those switches and let
everyone know what happens.

Ron
"CHARLIE MAIER" wrote in message
oups.com...
You are off theory about the signals. First and second digits turn on
SCRs. Third digit is direct wire to pin bank, Again the way it works is
when the third digit latches it closes the locbar/latch switces. This
causes the write in relay to energize. This starts the motor. If the
reset at the keyboard releases the latched down button, then the write
in relay has not energized. Your problem is with dirty or mispadjusted
lockbar/latch switches or in the wiring harness. Not in the keyboard
slide switches. Get out a burnishing tool and clean and gap them.
Charlie