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How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 8th 08, 06:49 PM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
Matthew Brealey
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Posts: 42
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?

On 5 Jul, 18:40, "Owen W. Linzmayer" wrote:
I've been looking at the new SCWPM Modern Issues 14th edition and it
occurred to me that maybe it's unnecessary to include values for VG, VF, and
UNC when in my experience all most collectors want are perfect UNC notes.


It depends what you mean by modern notes.

For notes 1961-1980 plenty are scarce and expensive (relatively
speaking) in UNC, and some people will be happy to pay $15 for a VF
rather than $80 for an UNC to save money.
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  #12  
Old July 9th 08, 08:51 AM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
noteworthy
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Posts: 58
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?

For example Czechoslovakia P-17 is very very rare in high grade, it is not
even priced for Uncirculated. *It is the 100 Korun from 1920 with Slavia
from an Alfons Mucha work, it is a very very popular note with Czech
collectors, because of the design of the note, it was printed by ABNco, and
was replaced in 1931, so that pristine examples are very hard to come by,
but it is priced low in XF in the catalogue. *


17 100 kor 1920 .serie"H"VG 110.00, serie"Z" VF
450.00
17 100 kor 1920 serie"Ah" . . . . . repaired "VF"
320.00
17 100 kor 1920 serie"Aa-Az". . . .VG 80.00, VF
360.00

http://www.atsnotes.com/world/w-af.html

Just at one dealer. I didn't check the catalogue price. I do agree
that rare notes sell for much higher than the catalogue usually
indicates. This is because the catalogue price is based on historical
sales data rather than current market value.

Go figure. *Slavia is even
mis-described as a Pagan Priestess, which is farcical given that Slavia is a
known and published Mucha work. *In a couple of years of looking, I have not
been able to find a nicer than repaired VF for this note.

Other notes from Czechoslovakia, for example P-20, the 10 Korun of 1927 are
priced much lower than actual market value. *Generally when these are
available, and NOT specimen cancels, the best examples come out of the Czech
Republic.


20 10 kor 1927 /girls by Mucha . .VF 15.00, XF-
35.00


The Czechoslovakian notes are some of the best printed, and loveliest

designed notes that ever circulated in Central Europe, many in fact were
designed by Alfons Mucha, one of my favourite graphic artists.

  #13  
Old July 9th 08, 06:47 PM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
scottishmoney
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Posts: 240
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?

"noteworthy" wrote in message
17 100 kor 1920 .serie"H"VG 110.00, serie"Z" VF
450.00
17 100 kor 1920 serie"Ah" . . . . . repaired "VF"
320.00
17 100 kor 1920 serie"Aa-Az". . . .VG 80.00, VF
360.00

http://www.atsnotes.com/world/w-af.html

Just at one dealer. I didn't check the catalogue price. I do agree
that rare notes sell for much higher than the catalogue usually
indicates. This is because the catalogue price is based on historical
sales data rather than current market value.


Nothing new to me, I have looked at their catalogues for years, I have
bought a reasonable amount of stuff from them also, usually nicer Unc notes.
But in all fairness, these particular 100 Kcs notes have been listed in
their pricelist for at least 3+ years, so they are not moving in those
grades, or prices. For me, the note is a beautiful note in XF+, but not
circulated like those. But for Czech notes, many of mine have come from the
Czech Republic directly, through dealers there.


  #14  
Old July 10th 08, 01:01 AM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
Owen W. Linzmayer
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Posts: 384
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?

Based upon the input of everyone in this forum, I can see that there would
be great resistance to dropping all but UNC prices from any catalog of
notes. Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions.


On 7/6/08 5:30 PM, in article ,
"Padraic Brown" wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:40:23 -0700, "Owen W. Linzmayer"
wrote:

I've been looking at the new SCWPM Modern Issues 14th edition and it
occurred to me that maybe it's unnecessary to include values for VG, VF, and
UNC when in my experience all most collectors want are perfect UNC notes.


Not everybody wants perfect UNC notes. Not all notes are perfect UNC.
What is your alternative?

I realize some of the rarer and older notes are desirable in lesser grades,
but do you really think it's required to list VG and VF pricing? A great
number of notes are listed at FV in anything less than UNC, and given how
unreliable the SCWPM pricing can be anyway, would the lack of VG and VF
pricing be a deal killer for catalog buyers?


So long as people are desirous of buying and selling banknotes in less
than UNC grades, then the answer is yes. If dealers are willing to
sell all these rare and otherwise valuable but less than UNC notes at
two for a dollar, then I wouldn't have a problem with that either!

Padraic
** Posted from
http://www.teranews.com **

  #15  
Old July 10th 08, 01:03 AM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
Matthew Brealey
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Posts: 42
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?

On 9 Jul, 08:51, noteworthy wrote:
http://www.atsnotes.com/world/w-af.html

Just at one dealer. I didn't check the catalogue price. I do agree
that rare notes sell for much higher than the catalogue usually
indicates. This is because the catalogue price is based on historical
sales data rather than current market value.



Some of the dealers that maintain big websites charge a big premium,
often the price is double the true market price because it's much more
profitable to wait for somebody to pay a way-high price while listing
them at a near-zero cost, than to maintain a website that has very
high turnover.

I consider the market price for notes up to about $1000 to be what
they fetch on bay after a 7-day auction. Sure, that varies, the
trusted dealers (I notice 'vista banknotes' and 'staples numismatics')
sometimes command a premium, but you can establish a real price fairly
easily from obvserving a few samples.

E.g.,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=230264157952 $10.50
AU from a very discerning seller who is selling an entire collection
of notes in collectible grades

ATS Notes want $25 for AU or $40 UNC. I think note.Same for their
other prices. Only one or two are competitive, essentially because the
prices have risen in the marketplace to reach their catalogue++
prices.

There's nothing wrong with ATS Notes of course, they offer a nice
service to web buyers to choose from a big stock from one website, I
just think anybody can write '$100' against a $10 note on a website.

The correct way to find the price of notes is with this

http://pages.ebay.com/marketplace_research/

It wouldn't be too hard to store a price history for notes. It's not
necessary to generate the whole price catalog by computer, you simply
have to do some basic matching to download text, images, and selling
prices for things that look like they match each Pick number.

Then when it comes time to update the catalogue you have the
researcher look at the archived auction data. I have done this myself
for certain notes, you might find a note selling at $185 UNC, then
$100 XF, then $90 VF, then $50 VF and you obviously need to exercise
some judgement about the actual valuations when selling prices have
varied a bit, and also look carefully at the actual notes. But I have
no doubt by this method you can get a very nice and accurate price
database for nearly everything.

It's not necessary to update everything, it's easy to perform
exception reporting on high value notes or where a raw average ebay
price (unchecked by a human for accuracy, overgrading, etc.) differs
greatly from the published price.

I'd be surprised of course if Krause even store their notes in any
kind of database to facilitate this kind of thing. Maybe they do, but
numismaster.com doesn't entirely convince me as a technological
endeavour.
  #16  
Old July 10th 08, 12:35 PM posted to rec.collecting.paper-money
scottishmoney
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Posts: 240
Default How important is it to have 3 values in catalog?



"Matthew Brealey" wrote in message
Some of the dealers that maintain big websites charge a big premium,
often the price is double the true market price because it's much more
profitable to wait for somebody to pay a way-high price while listing
them at a near-zero cost, than to maintain a website that has very
high turnover.


There's nothing wrong with ATS Notes of course, they offer a nice
service to web buyers to choose from a big stock from one website, I
just think anybody can write '$100' against a $10 note on a website.

One thing that has to be understood with online and even offline dealers,
they are like supermarkets in a way. They price where they think the market
will bear, and offset for correction the items they do not specialise in or
want to move out of inventory correctly. ATS has been in business a long
time, they are both of Polish descent. So it is no secret from looking at
their site that they specialise in Polish and Central European notes, and
can price them firmly as that is where they have a strong customer base for
people looking for accurately graded notes, and scarce materiel.

Conversely they have other materiel in their listings, Latin American, even
some Canadian that they want to move more quickly, and their prices are less
than usual for Canadian note dealers. I have bought several Pacific rim
nations notes, and Canadian notes from them because their prices are great
for those items. But I have also bought European notes from them, while
their prices are a bit more than usual because I know I will be happy with
the note they send, they do not play around and call something with a corner
ripple unc or aunc, it goes to EF.

I have dealt with Pam West of Britishnotes.co.uk for quite sometime, her
prices are fairly firm, but... she sells high end materiel, and even stated
in the past that she is "Not a cheap woman"! For nice UK stuff, she excels.
She is quite fascinating in her business approach as she even links on her
site the sites of her main competitors, so you can shop around. Very
confident and classy.


 




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