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Dutch bank cheated by counterfeit Euros for a year



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 11th 05, 09:55 AM
Christian Feldhaus
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richard schumacher wrote:

In article , "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

How do you propose the Dutch pay for, say, a 5000 Euro second-hand
car?


Both parties go to the buyer's bank and transact a cashier's cheque.


Does not sound very convenient to me. Then again, when buying a car, I
would not pay cash either, at least not the entire amount. In Germany it
is common, if you buy from a local dealer, to pay part of the amount in
cash or with plastic, and then transfer the rest. (Unless you buy credit
based of course.)

Now if you buy a used car at a "parking lot market" or via the Internet
(ie. "private" sales), that is different. In the first case, the seller
usually wants to see cash, in the second case (particularly when the
seller is in another country) you will want to avoid any insecure kind
of payment.

Christian
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  #12  
Old September 11th 05, 09:55 AM
Christian Feldhaus
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richard schumacher wrote:

In article , "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

Checks are almost not used in the Netherlands.


Well that seems rather silly. Why are they not?


What sense do checks make? They may have been useful in the times before
direct debit and money transfer. As far as I remember I wrote maybe half
a dozen checks in the late 90s, and exactly one in the past three years.
All other transactions were cash (for F2F payments of relatively low
amounts), direct debit/direct transfer or debit/credit card payments.

Surely people and institutions don't enjoy receiving high-denomination
counterfeit notes.


Which is why pretty much any bank uses testing devices for such
purposes. Beyond a certain limit (here in DE that is ¤15,000 I think)
identification is required anyway.

Christian
  #13  
Old September 11th 05, 12:50 PM
oly
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The only parties who "need" a note of this size 500 euros - presently
600 dollars+) are those involved in drugs and perhaps tax evasion
(perhaps the second hand automobile transaction was done in cash to
avoid taxes?).

And what would really be the problem with paying 5000 euros in 100
fifty euro notes, really? If any single note was a counterfeit, the
loss would be much less.

I don't think that members of this group are really aware of all the
resources the federal government is presently devoting to identifying
large cash transactions and suspicious activity reporting. Yes, part
of this effort is to counter terrorism; but a lot of it is to keep
American society from being totally corrupted by drug money the way
that has already happened in several other countries. Perhaps the
Netherlands is on its way to being like Columbia.

As stated earlier, the 500 euro note is a pox on the international
economy.

  #15  
Old September 11th 05, 11:20 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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oly wrote:

The only parties who "need" a note of this size 500 euros - presently
600 dollars+) are those involved in drugs and perhaps tax evasion
(perhaps the second hand automobile transaction was done in cash to
avoid taxes?).


Not everything that is uncommon or unknown in your country does
automatically have a criminal background g.

As stated earlier, the 500 euro note is a pox on the international
economy.


Yes, you claimed that earlier. Too bad the ECB does not listen. Nor did
the German central bank in the DM years when we had the 1000 mark notes,
worth about 510 euro. Nor does the Swiss central bank - the 1000 CHF
note, which will also be part of the new series, is worth about 650 euro
or 800 US dollars.

Christian
  #16  
Old September 11th 05, 11:20 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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richard schumacher wrote:

Doesn't the same argument apply against large denomination notes? If
direct debits and transfers are so easy and popular, why issue large
notes? They seem like a pointless risk, an invitation to counterfeiters.


But cashless payments, especially but not only across borders, can be
manipulated too. And actually the high value notes are not really
inviting as far as counterfeiters are concerned. About 70 percent of the
counterfeits in Euroland are ¤50 notes, simply because they are less
frequently/thoroughly checked in everyday transactions ...

Christian
  #17  
Old September 11th 05, 11:28 PM
David O'Grady
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That's a good thing. Maybe it will help to devalue the Euro.

"stonej" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=economy&alt...50910&hn=23909



  #18  
Old September 12th 05, 01:12 AM
Dik T. Winter
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In article richard schumacher writes:
In article , "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

Checks are almost not used in the Netherlands.


Well that seems rather silly. Why are they not? Surely people and
institutions don't enjoy receiving high-denomination counterfeit notes.


One of the reasons is that cashing checks can be quite expensive. The
other reason is that on some accounts checks have never been issued. I
started in the 1960s with a Amsterdam municipal giro account, no checks.
When that merged with the Postal giro, still no checks. I think that
currently there is no Dutch bank that issues checks anymore. (And another
problem is that when you receive a check, how do you know that it is
covered?)
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #19  
Old September 12th 05, 01:15 AM
Dik T. Winter
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In article richard schumacher writes:
In article , "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

How do you propose the Dutch pay for, say, a 5000 Euro second-hand
car?


Both parties go to the buyer's bank and transact a cashier's cheque.


Cashier cheques do not exist in the Netherlands. Moreover, it would be
quite inconvenient if you have to drive a few hundred kilometers to get
at the buyer's bank (yes, some banks are very local).
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #20  
Old September 12th 05, 01:28 AM
Dik T. Winter
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In article writes:
richard schumacher wrote:
In article , "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

Checks are almost not used in the Netherlands.


Well that seems rather silly. Why are they not?


What sense do checks make? They may have been useful in the times before
direct debit and money transfer.


Since about the 70s Dutch banks issued "money cards". They were guaranteed
to an amount of 100 or 300 gulden, depending on the date and the bank.
For some pictures, see: http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/private/giro/. In those
years, almost *all* non-cash payment was made with such cards. And if
the amount you wanted to transfer exceeded the guaranteed limit, you either
filled in a higher amount (if the other party trusted you), or you used
multiple cards. You had to legitimate yourself with a pass. When the
postal card was issued you could get money with it in many countries
around the world in post offices (in most countries a fixed amount that
was loosely tied to the guaranteed amount in the Netherlands).

All other transactions were cash (for F2F payments of relatively low
amounts), direct debit/direct transfer or debit/credit card payments.


Almost all my transactions under (say) 50 Euro are cash, those above are
by debit card. I use my credit card only in other countries, and
sparingly. Shops here prefer a debit card above a credit card. For
a credit card they have to pay around 3% of the transaction (depends on
the card issuer), payment with a debit cards costs about 0.25 Euro.
You may even get a reduction in some places if you do not pay by credit
card.

Which is why pretty much any bank uses testing devices for such
purposes. Beyond a certain limit (here in DE that is ¤15,000 I think)
identification is required anyway.


This is EU wide, but I do not know whether the amount is the same in all
countries.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
 




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