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What is THE Book on Fountain Pens?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 4th 03, 03:00 PM
Licensed to Quill
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Posts: n/a
Default What is THE Book on Fountain Pens?

For those coming to this thread anew, this is a continuation of a completely
off-topic part of a thread which was hijacked into an ATTEMPTED flaming
session by someone who is either called Edward Bonaventure who goes under
the name of david moeser, presumably for anonymity purposes (or visa
versa?): He had hijacked the thread into the totally fruitless, off topic
and non-pen-related question (cleverly noticed by kcat, amongst others, who
suspected it of being perhaps slightly hypocritical) of whether OTHERS
should use anonymity in their postings. And he didn't seem to know what a
by-line (and possibly an encyclopaedia) was.

Nancy

I am not sure I said in the thread (which you cite, -see below) that I wrote
*THE* book on fountain pens, though some who were hitched onto this hobby by
being given it have paid me that compliment. I said I wrote "the book which
sold. . . . ." (over 200,000 copies the last time I counted, which was
actually a few years ago). Lots of people think that *the*original book
which got the hobby started was written by Cliff Lawrence although it wasn't
without its faults: He was apparently not aware of such companies as
Montblanc Mabie Todd or Namiki (etc etc etc). I personally think my first
is a great book and should be bought first but that any serious collector
can't really do without the Fischler and Schneider hardbacks which are
somewhat more definitive. (and Frank's because you shouldn't really be
heavily into this hobby in a big way without at least knowing some of the
secrets of what goes on inside those pens and how to get them working)

However you could be correct in what you assume as I have discussed this
with numerous aficionados and no one seems to think that there are any more
than about fifteen to twenty thousand serious vintage pen collectors out
there world-wide absolute maximum. So presumably there are 180,000 people
who think it IS *the* book? Thanks anyway for the compliment.

Oh yes, BTW I was one of the organisers from its earliest days with Max and
Tony Davis of the first International New York Fountain Pen Show which was
held at the Roosevelt Hotel back in the '90s. It had a successful no-junk
auction with a professional auctioneer flown in from England (not one of
those confusing tobacco guys) , a very large number of attendees, a large
ballroom along with initial entrance rooms reserved for modern pen
manufacturers displays and modern pen vendors (tables in which were seen
prior to, and which cost more than, those for vintage pen vendors, - a
great idea which no other show has ever copied, though Washington B.C. comes
close); and a generally great time was had by all who attended with the
possible exception of the Davises who didn't actually make money out of it
(and between two and five members of the, - then, - pen-show-arranging
mafia who tried to stage a slightly pathetic 'boycott' which had almost no
effect whatsoever on the success of the show but which did do those few
individuals out of a great week-end and, in those days, some incredible
finds).

But as I said, any first show isn't a great financial success: to such an
extent that they/we never held another one, plus the Roosevelt was just
being bought out by Ramada at the time and was going through a huge
renovation program which was a possible reason why the price to us was so
cheap: Some may provide another reason: The quality of the rooms which
hadn't yet been renovated left something to be desired but I accidentally
missed putting anything about that in the original contract I negotiated
with the hotel: Sorry Frank (who didn't get a great room). mea culpa.

Not sure you are correct about Geoff having ever arranged any show in New
York? (It was Max Davis who arranged those regional get-togethers at La
Manganette and Abe Goldrich/Murray Hoffman who did it on Long Island in the
'80s)

Hugo Ripanykhazov

"Nancy Handy" wrote in message
. ..
Licensed to Quill wrote:

I wrote the book on fountain pens
which sold about two or three times as many copies as all others on

fountain
pens put together. And sold (in half a dozen languages) to about ten

times
as many people out there as actually collect pens.


being an organiser of pen shows in New York, Milan and Bologna.



You wrote *the* book on fountain pens? Which one?
It sold 3 times as many as all others, is that including Frank's book?
It sold to 10 times as many people as actually collect pens? Does that
statement actually make any sense?

You organized shows in New York? I thought that was limited to the
Zuckers, and previously Berliner, and before that Max Davis?

Please feel free to clarify.

anon.



Ads
  #2  
Old October 4th 03, 04:55 PM
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Posts: n/a
Default

Licensed to Quill wrote:
The quality of the rooms which
hadn't yet been renovated left something to be desired but I accidentally
missed putting anything about that in the original contract I negotiated
with the hotel: Sorry Frank (who didn't get a great room). mea culpa.


Have to admit I always thought of it as entirely Max and Tony's show,
but I don't claim to know what went on behind them in terms of
organization.

Having a few 100 non paying guests in my room wasn't fun esp when I
eneded up in the ER as a result. But the hotel and Max and Tony handled
it as well as anyone could have and it all ended well. I misssed most
of Saturday due to the ER visit and being drugged out. When I recovered
and stumbled downstairs around 6pm Max and Tony insisted I join them as
their guest for dinner. The hotel took care of the hospital bill and
the replacement room (a giant suite) was free. By Sunday I was good
enough to do the show, if a bit slow, and a couple pen collectors who
were doctors checked in on my from time to time.

All and all it was a fun time and has become a classic story among pen
collectors. I should explain the 100s of guests in my room were bedbugs
that ate me alive Friday nite and woke me at 3am. In fairness I should
also explain my room was the only one with the bug problem I knew of and
the hotel checked their records and found some hikers or backpackers had
the room before me and may have brought em in.

I suppose this story will never die... LOL and unlike many stories this
one is completely true. Frank
  #3  
Old October 5th 03, 06:31 AM
Nancy Handy
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Posts: n/a
Default


Hi,
Are you Hugo or Jonathan? I thought I saw you sign both names to posts.
It's okay if we go off topic, the group has been rather quiet as of
late. And I'm top posting because your reply was long even though I
know that drives some nettiquette people crazy in this group!

I was under the impression that Cliff's book was the original book, but
apparently it might not have been. I have Fischler and Schneiders blue
and brown books. I don't know anything about yours and I'm sure there
are others in this group as well who'd like to know - what book are we
talking about? Since you're here to stay and have been around for a
long time, please consider giving us your name. And your book's name
too!

I didin't know that you were in on that show with Max. Interesting
stuff. I had heard that the first NY show didn't make any money.
Hearing more details that your provided about that old show was very
interesting. That's the kind of "off topic" stuff we need here. And
it's really very ON topic and far more interesting to those of us who
weren't there. Would like to hear more!

When I mentioned that Geoff arranged a NY show, I meant that he did the
NY/NJ show, at least I think that's how they billed it for the years
they had it there. Maybe not. All I know is I went and I liked it.

I know nothing about Abe Goldrich or Murray Hoffman arranging Long
Island pen get togethers in the '80's. We had a pen club a few years
ago that only 3 regulars including myself showed up to. Now I'm in the
process of arranging for another new Long Island Pen Club to start next
month and we have about 17 people to start. We'll see how it goes in
The Land of No Fountain Pens.

Nancy

Licensed to Quill wrote:

For those coming to this thread anew, this is a continuation of a completely
off-topic part of a thread which was hijacked into an ATTEMPTED flaming
session by someone who is either called Edward Bonaventure who goes under
the name of david moeser, presumably for anonymity purposes (or visa
versa?): He had hijacked the thread into the totally fruitless, off topic
and non-pen-related question (cleverly noticed by kcat, amongst others, who
suspected it of being perhaps slightly hypocritical) of whether OTHERS
should use anonymity in their postings. And he didn't seem to know what a
by-line (and possibly an encyclopaedia) was.

Nancy

I am not sure I said in the thread (which you cite, -see below) that I wrote
*THE* book on fountain pens, though some who were hitched onto this hobby by
being given it have paid me that compliment. I said I wrote "the book which
sold. . . . ." (over 200,000 copies the last time I counted, which was
actually a few years ago). Lots of people think that *the*original book
which got the hobby started was written by Cliff Lawrence although it wasn't
without its faults: He was apparently not aware of such companies as
Montblanc Mabie Todd or Namiki (etc etc etc). I personally think my first
is a great book and should be bought first but that any serious collector
can't really do without the Fischler and Schneider hardbacks which are
somewhat more definitive. (and Frank's because you shouldn't really be
heavily into this hobby in a big way without at least knowing some of the
secrets of what goes on inside those pens and how to get them working)

However you could be correct in what you assume as I have discussed this
with numerous aficionados and no one seems to think that there are any more
than about fifteen to twenty thousand serious vintage pen collectors out
there world-wide absolute maximum. So presumably there are 180,000 people
who think it IS *the* book? Thanks anyway for the compliment.

Oh yes, BTW I was one of the organisers from its earliest days with Max and
Tony Davis of the first International New York Fountain Pen Show which was
held at the Roosevelt Hotel back in the '90s. It had a successful no-junk
auction with a professional auctioneer flown in from England (not one of
those confusing tobacco guys) , a very large number of attendees, a large
ballroom along with initial entrance rooms reserved for modern pen
manufacturers displays and modern pen vendors (tables in which were seen
prior to, and which cost more than, those for vintage pen vendors, - a
great idea which no other show has ever copied, though Washington B.C. comes
close); and a generally great time was had by all who attended with the
possible exception of the Davises who didn't actually make money out of it
(and between two and five members of the, - then, - pen-show-arranging
mafia who tried to stage a slightly pathetic 'boycott' which had almost no
effect whatsoever on the success of the show but which did do those few
individuals out of a great week-end and, in those days, some incredible
finds).

But as I said, any first show isn't a great financial success: to such an
extent that they/we never held another one, plus the Roosevelt was just
being bought out by Ramada at the time and was going through a huge
renovation program which was a possible reason why the price to us was so
cheap: Some may provide another reason: The quality of the rooms which
hadn't yet been renovated left something to be desired but I accidentally
missed putting anything about that in the original contract I negotiated
with the hotel: Sorry Frank (who didn't get a great room). mea culpa.

Not sure you are correct about Geoff having ever arranged any show in New
York? (It was Max Davis who arranged those regional get-togethers at La
Manganette and Abe Goldrich/Murray Hoffman who did it on Long Island in the
'80s)

Hugo Ripanykhazov

  #4  
Old October 5th 03, 12:29 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Nancy Handy wrote:


I was under the impression that Cliff's book was the original book, but
apparently it might not have been.


It was by far. 1977. Paperback, not large but many pages in color.
Rather useless by todays standards other than its historical importance
to pen collecting since it did really "start" the hobby as there was
nothing formal before it and within 2 or 3 years after it pen shows,
other books, newsletters (mainly Cliff's own, although some others as
well) all followed. No book before it. Period. No book after it could
ever have the impact of this small book. No matter how large or how
well done. Cliff began it. Everyone else followed. Myself included.

I don't think its far to complain about the lack of foreign pens in
early books. None of the early books gave much notice to non-US made
pens. Which was as it should have been for books printed in the US and
directed at a US market. As I pointed out many times until the mid
1980s it was nearly impossible to buy non-US made pens in the US with
the exception of MBs and an occasional pen from Japan. I never saw a
Pelikan in any store in my life before the mid 80s. Never yet in 50
years of looking have I ever seen a vintage Omas outside of a pen show.
Such pens have almost all been brought here by European collectors or
travelers. Nothing wrong with that, but Cliff, like myself had
virtually no exposue to non-US made pens in 1977. Almost no one here
did unless they travled overseas. I'm sure Cliff knew about MBs but to
not include them in his first book was correct since it was a book on
collecting old VINTAGE fountain pens and it was all but impossible to
find a vintage MB in the US back then since MBs were also not usually
sold here until the 1960s and Cliff's book was concentrated on pens from
the 50s back and its main info was on pens before WW2. It never was
intended to be about pens of the "world" since the entire world of pens
in the US consisted of US made pens at the time. It was a book about
collecting pens in the US and it reflected well what the hobby was and
would become in the US back then as well as what the average US
collector could hopefully find here. Frank
  #5  
Old October 5th 03, 02:37 PM
PGBarto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Isn't L to Q Joshua Steinberg, author of several pen books?
This isn't a mystery without any clues: go to www.vintagepen.com (singular:
plural gets you to David Nishimura's site) which is one of the first pen sites
I stumbled upon.
Gary
  #6  
Old October 5th 03, 03:47 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


On 5-Oct-2003, (PGBarto) wrote:

Isn't L to Q Joshua Steinberg, author of several pen books?


I believe you mean Jonathan Steinberg.

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  #7  
Old October 6th 03, 03:18 AM
Nancy Handy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:

(PGBarto) wrote:


Isn't L to Q Joshua Steinberg, author of several pen books?


I believe you mean Jonathan Steinberg.



Really? Then why does he keep signing Hugo?
Who *is* that masked man?
Hugo Icantpronounceit or famous fountain pen author Jonathan Steinberg?
  #9  
Old October 6th 03, 03:34 AM
Licensed to Quill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If there really are people here who don't know who Licensed to Quill is, it
may be useful if you could peruse
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2195443571

This is a blatant advertisement of the type which people seem to like using
every time they put some piece on e-bay which is so undesirable that they
fear no one would normally see it. So I thought, why shouldn't I use this
medium?

Hugo Ripanykhazov
BTW Nancy we did meet briefly at the NY show when you expressed profound
disinterest in my book (which is OK, not everyone has to want to buy a copy
and I may well be mistaking you for someone else) but I happen to LIKE top
posting because it lets you easily and quickly scroll through and see what
is going on and what is worth reading in Outlook Express without having to
open anything up. The only reason people don't like it is because it is so
easy and they pretend that it makes the reply LOOK as if the person replying
hasn't read the message. I don't accept this at all.

I will get you some ISBNs for my books at some stage if you like? And will
try to come to the show if I can sort out the fuel supply in my car which
was manufactured as long ago as 1984.

"Nancy Handy" wrote in message
.. .

Hi,
Are you Hugo or Jonathan? I thought I saw you sign both names to posts.
It's okay if we go off topic, the group has been rather quiet as of
late. And I'm top posting because your reply was long even though I
know that drives some nettiquette people crazy in this group!

I was under the impression that Cliff's book was the original book, but
apparently it might not have been. I have Fischler and Schneiders blue
and brown books. I don't know anything about yours and I'm sure there
are others in this group as well who'd like to know - what book are we
talking about? Since you're here to stay and have been around for a
long time, please consider giving us your name. And your book's name
too!

I didin't know that you were in on that show with Max. Interesting
stuff. I had heard that the first NY show didn't make any money.
Hearing more details that your provided about that old show was very
interesting. That's the kind of "off topic" stuff we need here. And
it's really very ON topic and far more interesting to those of us who
weren't there. Would like to hear more!

When I mentioned that Geoff arranged a NY show, I meant that he did the
NY/NJ show, at least I think that's how they billed it for the years
they had it there. Maybe not. All I know is I went and I liked it.

I know nothing about Abe Goldrich or Murray Hoffman arranging Long
Island pen get togethers in the '80's. We had a pen club a few years
ago that only 3 regulars including myself showed up to. Now I'm in the
process of arranging for another new Long Island Pen Club to start next
month and we have about 17 people to start. We'll see how it goes in
The Land of No Fountain Pens.

Nancy

Licensed to Quill wrote:

For those coming to this thread anew, this is a continuation of a

completely
off-topic part of a thread which was hijacked into an ATTEMPTED flaming
session by someone who is either called Edward Bonaventure who goes

under
the name of david moeser, presumably for anonymity purposes (or visa
versa?): He had hijacked the thread into the totally fruitless, off

topic
and non-pen-related question (cleverly noticed by kcat, amongst others,

who
suspected it of being perhaps slightly hypocritical) of whether OTHERS
should use anonymity in their postings. And he didn't seem to know what

a
by-line (and possibly an encyclopaedia) was.

Nancy

I am not sure I said in the thread (which you cite, -see below) that I

wrote
*THE* book on fountain pens, though some who were hitched onto this

hobby by
being given it have paid me that compliment. I said I wrote "the book

which
sold. . . . ." (over 200,000 copies the last time I counted, which was
actually a few years ago). Lots of people think that *the*original book
which got the hobby started was written by Cliff Lawrence although it

wasn't
without its faults: He was apparently not aware of such companies as
Montblanc Mabie Todd or Namiki (etc etc etc). I personally think my

first
is a great book and should be bought first but that any serious

collector
can't really do without the Fischler and Schneider hardbacks which are
somewhat more definitive. (and Frank's because you shouldn't really be
heavily into this hobby in a big way without at least knowing some of

the
secrets of what goes on inside those pens and how to get them working)

However you could be correct in what you assume as I have discussed this
with numerous aficionados and no one seems to think that there are any

more
than about fifteen to twenty thousand serious vintage pen collectors out
there world-wide absolute maximum. So presumably there are 180,000

people
who think it IS *the* book? Thanks anyway for the compliment.

Oh yes, BTW I was one of the organisers from its earliest days with Max

and
Tony Davis of the first International New York Fountain Pen Show which

was
held at the Roosevelt Hotel back in the '90s. It had a successful

no-junk
auction with a professional auctioneer flown in from England (not one of
those confusing tobacco guys) , a very large number of attendees, a

large
ballroom along with initial entrance rooms reserved for modern pen
manufacturers displays and modern pen vendors (tables in which were seen
prior to, and which cost more than, those for vintage pen vendors, - a
great idea which no other show has ever copied, though Washington B.C.

comes
close); and a generally great time was had by all who attended with

the
possible exception of the Davises who didn't actually make money out of

it
(and between two and five members of the, - then, - pen-show-arranging
mafia who tried to stage a slightly pathetic 'boycott' which had almost

no
effect whatsoever on the success of the show but which did do those few
individuals out of a great week-end and, in those days, some incredible
finds).

But as I said, any first show isn't a great financial success: to such

an
extent that they/we never held another one, plus the Roosevelt was just
being bought out by Ramada at the time and was going through a huge
renovation program which was a possible reason why the price to us was

so
cheap: Some may provide another reason: The quality of the rooms which
hadn't yet been renovated left something to be desired but I

accidentally
missed putting anything about that in the original contract I negotiated
with the hotel: Sorry Frank (who didn't get a great room). mea culpa.

Not sure you are correct about Geoff having ever arranged any show in

New
York? (It was Max Davis who arranged those regional get-togethers at La
Manganette and Abe Goldrich/Murray Hoffman who did it on Long Island in

the
'80s)

Hugo Ripanykhazov



  #10  
Old October 6th 03, 03:46 AM
PGBarto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Um, he's bored.
He's trying to get your goat.
He's just joshing (Sorry Jonathan)
He's in Halloween costume early.
He thinks you take yourself too seriously (Oops, I think that)
He's a W C Fields fan.
He's got his fingers on the wrong spot on the QWERTY keyboard.
His brain has been taken over by aliens.
If you're still reading this list, what does it really matter?
 




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