"Real" Money

note.boy wrote:
Many modern diesel engines are now so good that even the most
committed petrolhead would consider buying a car that has one.

Many are quicker to 60 mph than the nearest equivalent petrol engine
and the MPG is about 20% to 33% better. Billy

You cannot buy a diesel automobile in California. Has something to do with
the state's very restrictive emmission control laws. That's a bummer. I
agree that diesel-powered cars is one way to reduce fuel consumption without
sacrificing power. However, if ALL cars in the world were diesel powered it
would only temporarily delay the inevitable. The world needs to seriously
pursue a cheap, renewable alternative energy source.

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks

"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
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[big snip]

As silliness goes, demand that the cent should exist is pretty much a
lightweight, and, if you want to talk in terms of waste of taxpayers'
money, hardly even registers on the radar, comparatively speaking.

James


You are correct of course but this is a coin NG so it is relevant.

I believe that GWII is rather expensive so why does the USA Government
not take a few simple steps to save a lot of money by dumping the one
cent coin and one dollar note? I know the answer of course, they are
politicians and have no common sense. Billy

What is GWII?

As far as our politicians are concerned, I'm going to guess that they are
aware of the tax savings that could be effected, but also that they are
aware of the likelihood and impact of public outcry. Even politicians
have to choose their battles.

James


Gulf War II. The one that will last longer than the Vietnam War, and cost
more lives and money. Billy

I wondered if that wasn't it, but didn't want to be the one who injected
that issue into the discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't
the amount of money spent on GWII in a single day eclipse the amount of
money necessary to sustain the paper dollar for a whole year? Plus, nobody
is killed or wounded in the production of the paper money, normally. And,
it's kind of hard to inject God, Motherhood, and Apple Pie into the matter
of coin and currency production costs. Maybe that's why it's all relatively
invisible to the U.S. taxpayer.

James

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
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"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
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wrote in message
ups.com...
"Real" money, meaning that the value of the coin is in the
metal, is gone now. Was the USA the last country to coin
real money? If not, which country carried on coinage after
LBJ eliminated silver coinage?

BTW, I do not count legal tender coins like the US $50
gold coin, as it is not expected to be circulated as a
Kennedy half dollar was.

GFH


I would not be surprised if the USA was the last country to coin
"real" money as they have the most backward coin and papermoney on
the planet.

So, you've rigorously examined the coin and papermoney of all
nations on the planet and come to this conclusion, eh?

Mr. Jaggers


Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward coin and papermoney set up.

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?



You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you
would.

Never had any problem buying stuff with our money. As long as it works,
who cares what assortment of denominations a country uses? The only
thing backwards here is your concerns and your Econ 101 logic.


I hate to repeat myself but you insists on replying without reading my
posts carefully and posting the first thought that enters your head.

The USA goverment is wasting millions producing low value coins and notes
that have no place in a country like the USA, the UK government dumped
the 1/2 penny coin and the ten bob note ages ago, the persons responsible
for the lack of similar action for the one cent coin and one dollar note
in the USA need to be fired. I can't make it any plainer than that.

You keep expounding on what the US needs and what needs to be done there
while not living there as a daily user of its various monies. Who are you
to criticise us for not doing exactly what you do in the UK? Where are
you reading this stuff? How much are the savings if one of our seven
paper bill denominations is eliminated? And why do you care so much?



This is a coin news group, this is what happens in coin news groups.


Try responding directly to my comments above without flying off at a
tangent, please.

If you disagree with my statement, give the reasons, that's how a
discussion works.


Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
circulation similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?

The dollar bill has a ridiculously low face value? Regardless, if any
other countries use low value coins it's because they want to. Better
not go there if it bugs you.

Oops, too late, I've been to the USA three times and Canada once.

Were you able to use our backward currency to buy things? You must've
if you came back a couple times.



Yes and the one cent coin was a pain in the bum, I left behind several
dozen when I headed for the airport, many are received in change but few
are spent.

Would you support the introduction of a 1/4 cent coin?

At the end of each day in the UK, I unloaded all the change in my pocket
and threw half of them-- the pesky and "useless" small denominations--
into my suitcase to go into my foreign "junk box" when I got home. All
countries seem to have their "useless" coins, eh? I assume these small
denomination coins don't concern people in the UK, so their existance
doesn't and shouldn't concern me as a foreigner.


The one penny coin is worth near two US cents, that's double. There has
been talk of dumping the one and even the two penny coin.



The UK got rid of the 1/2p coin (roughly equal to the one cent coin)
in 1984 and last issued the ten bob note (roughly equal to the one
dollar note) in 1967.

So what? They did so because they wanted to. I believe the UK still
has 50p coins, two of which equate to a one pound coin. Why mint
both? People like to use them, I guess. Same here.

If you have to ask "so what" you must like the USA government wasting
millions every year producing useless low value coin and notes.

Did you just come in off the college picket line with that? We use all
of our coins and notes, as do people in all countries. You call that
wasting? Wait a few years and there will be no need for cash at all,
except for your "Lucys' Economic Advice 50¢" stand along the street
outside your house.



I've never been to college and never been on a picket line and I fail to
see what that has to do with anything, or was that a pathetic attempt to
introduce politics into the argument?

Sorry, I should have known. Again, the reason for your continued concern
about what our government spends our money on escapes me. You must be
glad you live in such an efficient country that wastes nothing.


You are posting nonsense AGAIN, where did I post that the UK the goverment
wastes nothing, stick to the subject please and refrain from random keyboard
thumping. The point is AGAIN that the UK dumped the equivilant of the USA
one cent coin and one dollar note many years ago, I'm getting tired typing
that now as you fail to repond to it with a well reasoned counter argument,
are you incapable of doing so, if that's the case let me know and I'll stop
wasting my time replying to you, was that a sigh of relief I heard at the
back of the NG.


100 years after cash has been abolished everywhere else I fear that the
USA will still be using the one cent coin.

The USA is 23 and 40 years behind the UK.

Wow! Did you get this from a US or a UK economist?

You are very obviously part of the problem and not part of the
solution.

And the "problem" is? Are we not following the UK model correctly?

The problem is that the USA goverment is ignoring the problem and so are
you, no matter how times it's brought to your attention you fail to
acknowledge its existance.

The problem is that the US govt is ignoring the problem? Hmmmmm. You
still haven't explained what the "problem" is that you perceive we have.
From another country thousands of miles away you keep harping on the
notion that we have a serious "problem" here and our government is
ignoring it. Have you experienced it? Have you learned this from US
citizens? BBC? You need to have a cup of coffee or do a little gardening
or something. There has to be some local problem just waiting for you to
point it out.



I've explained the problem many times now but it appears that you are
incapable of constructing a sensible response and I'm getting tired of you
now.


The attractiveness of current USA papermoney from a collecting point
of view is a million miles behind Scottish notes. We have very
attractive issues in a variety of designs/colours and sizes from
three different banks that change fairly regularly. Billy

Personally, I kind of like having all my bills the same size so none
get lost in between the others and I don't have to keep them arranged
by size in my wallet. Never in 60 years have I confused one
denomination with another. I think our bills look just fine, too,
pretty much the way our money has looked for well over half a century.
Gives consumers confidence and comfort. Frequent currency design
changes can create confusion.

Any time I can buy $1.00 worth of goods with $1.00 worth of the coins
in my pocket, that's "real money" to me. I couldn't care less what
the coins are made of.

I have never been confused with USA notes but it is a let down when I
discover after a good rummage that I have nothing left above a five, it
would be so much easier if the notes had some variety.

Then you'll LOVE our postage stamps. Try some. Different sizes, too.
And you ought to spend some of those US notes, rather than let them
accumulate so much that you have to "rummage".



Is there still a one cent stamp?

Sure. They become most useful whenever the postal rates increase by a
couple cents. Stick them alongside old rate stamps you have left to make
up the difference. You imply we're wasting more money here?


Yet again you jump to a wrong conclusion, are you attempting the world
record in a single thread?

I wish I had spent more as the value of the US$ against the UK£ has
plummeted recently.

The relative values don't matter much to the average Joe here.



You are correct as just 8% of Americans have a passport, travel broadens the
mind you know.


Have you ever heard of the expression "move with the times", you must
be sad that barter is no longer with us and that we no longer live in
caves. Billy

Gee, no. I've never heard of that expression. Are you saying we should
have "moved" with certain other countries? By the way, check how the
economies of those other advanced countries are doing compared to ours.
If you know how. The US must be wallowing in the dumps, based on your
assessment of our pace with the world.

Bruce


The better the US economy performs then the more useless the one cent
coin and one dollar bill becomes, but you must be aware of that already
surely? Billy

Why is this so important to you? Why do you worry so much about what
coins and bills we produce? I LIVE here and I don't see this as a
problem. Sure, our cent is close to valueless, but it's still necessary
to make exact change and people seem to want their exact change. Maybe
that bothers you too. The day our dollar bill ever becomes "useless"
will be the same day all money becomes useless, and I don't plan to be
around for that.

Bruce


If the one dollar note is scrapped are you going to commit suicide? Billy

You do indeed have NO idea of the % of total production of the one dollar
note so have a go at spotting the two deliberately confusing choices that
were included.

Okay. Regardless of your sarcastic little game, I suspect that about half
of our paper currency production is in one dollar notes. Does that sound
like a "useless" item? Or is the US government wrong and you are right?


Yup, been down to the basement again and the cardboard box STILL makes
more sense than you do, do you actually READ my replies or do you just
randomly thump your keyboard.

Yes paper is a renewable resource but the fuel used in the making and
transportation is not. Trees have to be cut down, transported and process
into paper, the paper then has to be transported to the printing works and
printed, more energy used in the actual printing process, the notes then
have to be distributed. There is then more fuel used to withdraw and
process the worn out notes. I'm astounded by your ignorance, did you
think that the Papermoney Fairy magically turned trees into one dollar
notes and then back to trees again when they become worn?

Paper money fairy? Okay. All those things you mention above create jobs.
Eliminating jobs would put people out of work. Fuel consumption is a fact
of life in industry. Use of fuel in the curency printing cycle is cost
effective, based on the needs and desires of the public.


I will try AGAIN to explain to you how a discussion works.

Oh Puhleez! Anyone but you!


I post a comment, if you disagree you say so and explain why you disagree.
I then reply giving the reasons why I think you are wrong, and it carries
on like that.

So for starters have a guess at the answer to the % question as you
ignored it when asked the first time. I'll give you a clue, "blackbook".
Yes the bible is often black but that's the wrong book so don't waste time
looking there.

Your lack of ability to construct an informed argument probably means that
most are now skipping this thread. Billy

Talk about irony. I'm still waiting for your answer to my question about
where you get the notion that we have unaddressed currency problems in the
US and that our dollar bill is useless.

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:04:54 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?

You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you
would.

I wonder why more than half of US currency is
oversees, banks all over the world request dollars from
the New York Federal Reserve, they have a warehouse
with skids of currency stacked 10 or 15 meters high just
to provide currency to foreign banks on request.

Is it because it is so backward?

Frankly, the US coins are fine, the quarter is really
all that is needed for parking meters and most machines
here, and making exact change seems to be the fastest
and least troublesome way to do business.
Maybe if all Americans were liberals, they wouldn't
care if they got exact change or not.

It isn't likely we will do things just because others
think we should, making auto parts metric was a huge
mistake costing Americans billions, with no advantage,
it didn't help sell American cars overseas.

American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe and
American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior quality is
dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are very ugly.
Billy

Well, now, there's a generalization, if I ever saw one. And with just a
soupçon of condescension to boot.

Can you cite 1) statistics which enumerate the origins of all vehicles on
European highways, country by country, 2) market analyses which reflect
the motivations of the buyers and drivers of those vehicles, and 3)
reports from entities that exhaustively test, review, compare and contrast
vehicles as to their qualities, such as does Consumer's Union?

James


I have a subscription to Autocar magazine and that is the opinion of EVERY
journalist that writes for the magazine.

Cars are OT here but visit their website if you disagree with them,
http://www.autocar.co.uk/Home.aspx

The American car that they like best for daily use is the Chrysler 300C,
many American cars still have leaf springs, the sort that were on
stagecoaches.

American cars are crude in comparison to cars made outside the USA but they
are cheap so it may be a trade off USA consumers are willing to accept. A
Dodge Ram for $40,000 seems good value to me.

If I could afford to run an American muscle car, even at the weekend, I'm
sure it would be great fun.but they are not suitable for daily use in the
UK. Billy

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

You are correct as just 8% of Americans have a passport, travel broadens
the mind you know.

For additional reading, here are some information sources:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=pas...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

James

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:04:54 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

By whose standards (besides yours) is our monetary system "backward"?

You couldn't find one more backword either, I didn't think that you
would.

I wonder why more than half of US currency is
oversees, banks all over the world request dollars from
the New York Federal Reserve, they have a warehouse
with skids of currency stacked 10 or 15 meters high just
to provide currency to foreign banks on request.

Is it because it is so backward?

Frankly, the US coins are fine, the quarter is really
all that is needed for parking meters and most machines
here, and making exact change seems to be the fastest
and least troublesome way to do business.
Maybe if all Americans were liberals, they wouldn't
care if they got exact change or not.

It isn't likely we will do things just because others
think we should, making auto parts metric was a huge
mistake costing Americans billions, with no advantage,
it didn't help sell American cars overseas.

American cars don't sell overseas because we have corners in Europe and
American cars go round corners very badly, and the interior quality is
dreadful, and they use too much fuel, and most of them are very ugly.
Billy

There's no "tongue in cheek" symbol after your post, so I have to presume
you really believe all what you said. Here I thought I was exchanging
posts with someone who had at least a little clue. No challenge or fun
anymore.

Bruce




It's a widely held opinion in the UK, why do you think that sales of
American cars in the UK are abysmal? They are cheap but of poor quality and
are low tech. Billy

http://www.autocar.co.uk/Home.aspx

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news

"note.boy" wrote in message
...

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:22:36 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

Prove me wrong by naming a non third world country that has a more
backward
coin and papermoney set up.

Who else has ridiculously low face value coins and papermoney in
circulation
similar to the one cent coin and the one dollar note?

Didn't they mint one cent and two cent euros? :-)

Name another country that has a 15 Billion dollar
economy. Maybe the money system has something
to do with economic activity.

Joe Fischer


News flash for Joe.

The bigger a country's economy the less need there is for low value notes
and coins.

So why is the one cent coin and one doller note still being produced?
Billy

Shhhhh. Because consumers and merchants here use them? Shhhhh.


Consumers don't use them, they receive them in change and promptly dump them
in a jar. That's the point. Billy

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
Many modern diesel engines are now so good that even the most committed
petrolhead would consider buying a car that has one.

Many are quicker to 60 mph than the nearest equivalent petrol engine and
the MPG is about 20% to 33% better. Billy

In the US, diesel fuel costs considerably more per gallon than gasoline.
And it's not available at most stations. And many people associate it with
foul-smelling truck and bus exhausts and any 20-year old Mercedes diesels
that remain in use. Other fuel options will prevail before diesel ever
makes a serious comeback in US passenger cars.

Bruce

The bosses in the USA are the people, thanks for that, I'll be laughing for
weeks. Billy

"Joe Fischer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:27:28 GMT, "note.boy"
wrote:

News flash for Joe.

The bigger a country's economy the less need there is for low value notes
and coins.

Most sales are less than $5, and people wait for
exact change because all prices are in dollars and
cents. With at least 50 different states with different
sales tax amounts, there is little chance of having prices
include the tax, and the Federal Government has __NO__
control over activity within a single states borders.

So why is the one cent coin and one doller note still being produced?
Billy

Because the bosses in the US, who are the _people_
want them. The Treasury is charged with providing the
people with the coins and currency they want.
Your idea of waste is much like the concepts used
by efficiency experts. It is usually sterile and doesn't
take into account all the reasons for doing things a
certain way or having denominations as they are.

People in different countries have different habits
and attach importance to different things.
There was a time when men in the US carried
a change purse and fumbled in it to make exact
change so it wouldn't get too full.
That ended by about WWII in the US, since
then coins have become "change", not money to
spend, people saved different denominations for
different reasons, and most either keep a supply
of coins in the car or leave them at home until
they have enough to bother with depositing.

It is a way of life, with possibly 6 or 8
purchases a day, and the coins are just a simple
way to get full value for the money spent, they
are change, they are not money as such now.

I have my grandfather's change purse,
it would be a huge chore for me to try to use
it, and with a wallet and cell phone, it would
just be too much extra baggage, when I get
to the car, I put the change in a cup holder
and put a wadded paper napkin on top so
nobody sees them, and I use them to make
purchases in drive-ins rather than deposit
them in a bank.

In the US, the people are in charge,
and the Constitution prevents just any nut
elected to congress from constantly changing
things except when the activity crosses a
state line.

What it amounts to is that the form of
the money is a nothing consideration, more
important things exist, and whatever form
the money is in, works just fine.

In actuality, eliminating the use of the
cent or the dollar bill would cost the treasury
extra money for a number of years.
This is the same situation with both
business and the public, there are things
that could be more efficient, but would cost
more money up front or for a period of time,
so efficiency has to wait.

This is a horrible situation with cars,
they were designed and built when oil was
$3 a barrel and cost 10 cents to pump out
of the ground.
People have a gas guzzler, and the
cost of buying a new car to get better mileage
is not possible, they don't have the money,
and they can't make the payments.

Things are changing slow, as people
can afford it, there are more used cars now
that get better mileage, and it takes 20 years
to replace all the 200 million cars with more
efficient ones.

The US has a lot of assets, but is not
a land where everybody is super rich, and
sometimes it is difficult to manage the way
to finance something more efficient or better.

I consider the present coinage mildly
interesting, but on a per capita basis, the
cost is minimal, I would gladly pay the $2
per person per year spent on paper dollars,
and pay the 20 cents per person loss
to mint the cents with present metals.
But there are hundreds of things more
important than what kind of money is used.

I waste about $2 a day drinking diet soda,
and 80 cents a day eating Reese Cups, and
maybe $3 a day just driving someplace because
I am bored, I could quit all those, and I will if I
ever have to quit, but it isn't a big deal at the
moment.

Joe Fischer