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Question about "no gum"



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 18th 04, 07:39 AM
Bob Ingraham
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1/17/2004 7:06 PM

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:55:12 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

1/15/2004 8:52 PM
snip

I mentioned stamps with acidic gum. Perhaps the best-known example is found
in Germany C57-C58, the Hindenburg zeppelin issue of 1936. Believe it or
not, the gum of these two stamps contains sulphuric acid. It is common to
find mint copies of these stamps, mint or on cover, which are badly toned by
the acid. On the other hand, if you find an uncancelled copy of either
stamp, it's a good bet that it was a mint stamp that was soaked to remove
the gum.
snip

++++++++++++++++++++
Bob, Sir:
The "toned" discoloration seems pretty obvious in your scans, but when
I look at the half-dozen C58s among my German air mail dupes, none of
them show any discoloration at all. They were part of a bulk lot from
a WWII vet which he sold to me about 1960, and they have always seemed
OK, so the acid note in Scott catalog never bothered me.


I suppose that varying storage conditions could cause varying rates of
deterioration of these stamps. Perhaps some batches of gum had more or less
acid in them? I really don't know.

Now you have made me feel better about the gumless mint copies in my
album, though. B68 souvenir sheet is no problem, because I don't have
one and my album has no place to put that sheet if I did get one.


Obviously, not a complete album nor a complete collection! (I don't recall
ever seeing that s/s, nor would I have enough money for one. Although, you
know, it's surprising how often you can items like that for a smallish
fraction of catalogue value. I went to a small auction this afternoon, and
not a single lot went for anywhere near catalogue value.
.
How many years have you owned that Zepp Cover?
Was it less discolored at the time you first got it?


I don't recall when I got the cover, but I don't think that it was more than
a couple of years ago. I scanned it August of last year. I'll try to
remember to dig it out and check, but I rather doubt much change has
occurred yet. It will be interesting to check in a few years to see whether
more discoloration has occurred.

I'm curious about something: I don't know where I first learned about the
sulphuric-acid content of the gum if C57 and C58, but it's not mentioned in
Scott! Not, at least, in my elderly (1986) edition. Is it mentioned in newer
editions? I did find mention of it on Linn's "Refresher Course" web page at
http://www.linns.com/howto/refresher/gum_20030217/refreshercourse.asp.

Bob


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  #12  
Old January 18th 04, 09:18 AM
Tracy Barber
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:39:37 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

snip

I'm curious about something: I don't know where I first learned about the
sulphuric-acid content of the gum if C57 and C58, but it's not mentioned in
Scott! Not, at least, in my elderly (1986) edition. Is it mentioned in newer
editions? I did find mention of it on Linn's "Refresher Course" web page at
http://www.linns.com/howto/refresher/gum_20030217/refreshercourse.asp.


Page 28A of my 2002 Scott Volume 3 states that Germany B68 has highly
acidic gum. The stamp is valued with gum removed.

Page 126 of same edition states that "The note concerning gum after
No. B28 also applies to Nos. C57-C58."

Page 121 speaks about the Ostropa sheet (B68), gum and that collectors
prefer to remove it because of the acidity.

Tracy Barber
  #13  
Old January 18th 04, 03:34 PM
Bob Ingraham
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1/18/2004 12:18 AM

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:39:37 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

snip

I'm curious about something: I don't know where I first learned about the
sulphuric-acid content of the gum if C57 and C58, but it's not mentioned in
Scott! Not, at least, in my elderly (1986) edition. Is it mentioned in newer
editions? I did find mention of it on Linn's "Refresher Course" web page at
http://www.linns.com/howto/refresher/gum_20030217/refreshercourse.asp.


Page 28A of my 2002 Scott Volume 3 states that Germany B68 has highly
acidic gum. The stamp is valued with gum removed.

Page 126 of same edition states that "The note concerning gum after
No. B28 also applies to Nos. C57-C58."

Page 121 speaks about the Ostropa sheet (B68), gum and that collectors
prefer to remove it because of the acidity.

Tracy Barber


Thanks, Tracy. Obviously, I need to buy a more recent catalogue! But I
really like the small format of the old catalogues. I have some arthritis in
my hands, and the new, large-format catalogues are difficult for me to
handle sometimes.

Bob

  #14  
Old January 19th 04, 07:12 PM
Albumen
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Yes, its called a CSA #11. :-)

-a

"Eric Bustad" wrote in message
...
So should there also be a NP catagory, where the paper is basically
destroyed but the gum remains?

= Eric



  #15  
Old January 21st 04, 03:41 PM
tony
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In message
"Albumen" wrote:

[snip]
On to your question -- The NG listing has been a long time in coming and is
much appreciated by collectors of classical issues. In many cases the
antique gum can only be preserved only at the expense of the paper, and so
over time some tough choices have to be made. By including a NG category for
the classics it creates a market where none existed before, and puts the
hobby on better long term footing vis'a'vis' the balance between plague and
preservation.


My Sassone catalogue for Italy lists mint no gum values for the earlier
issues. I have a number where the presence of gum would have eroded my bank
balance enormously. I gave a display to a local society yesterday
and none of the displays showed the back of the stamps.....

I would far rather have a nice fresh mint no gum stanp than a tatty
copy with gum on the back.

--
Tony Clayton or
Coins of the UK :
http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/coins.html
Values of Coins of the UK : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/values/coins.html
Metals used in Coins : http://www.tclayton.demon.co.uk/metal.html
Sent using RISC OS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
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  #16  
Old January 22nd 04, 01:28 AM
Tracy Barber
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:41:26 +0000, tony
wrote:

In message
"Albumen" wrote:

[snip]
On to your question -- The NG listing has been a long time in coming and is
much appreciated by collectors of classical issues. In many cases the
antique gum can only be preserved only at the expense of the paper, and so
over time some tough choices have to be made. By including a NG category for
the classics it creates a market where none existed before, and puts the
hobby on better long term footing vis'a'vis' the balance between plague and
preservation.


My Sassone catalogue for Italy lists mint no gum values for the earlier
issues. I have a number where the presence of gum would have eroded my bank
balance enormously. I gave a display to a local society yesterday
and none of the displays showed the back of the stamps.....

I would far rather have a nice fresh mint no gum stanp than a tatty
copy with gum on the back.


Give this man a cee-gar. DITTO.

Tracy Barber
  #17  
Old January 22nd 04, 11:15 AM
Michael Meadowcroft
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Tony

[snip]
On to your question -- The NG listing has been a long time in coming
and is much appreciated by collectors of classical issues. In many
cases the antique gum can only be preserved only at the expense of
the paper, and so over time some tough choices have to be made. By
including a NG category for the classics it creates a market where
none existed before, and puts the hobby on better long term footing
vis'a'vis' the balance between plague and preservation.


My Sassone catalogue for Italy lists mint no gum values for the
earlier issues. I have a number where the presence of gum would have
eroded my bank balance enormously. I gave a display to a local
society yesterday and none of the displays showed the back of the
stamps.....


Yvert, Ceres, Dallay and Marianne catalogues do the same for French
classic issues.

I would far rather have a nice fresh mint no gum stanp than a tatty
copy with gum on the back.

Indeed - and how can non-millionaires otherwise ever hope to possess
rare stamps?

I am also highly suspicious of the amount of "unmounted mint" early
material that keeps on appearing on the market.

Michael Meadowcroft

Michael Meadowcroft
Waterloo Lodge
72 Waterloo Lane
Leeds LS13 2JF
GB
Tel: +44 (0)113 257 6232

 




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