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#1
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early seeburg stereo sound quality questions
Hi all,
Since I got my 222 back from being rebuilt (it runs great), i'm not too impressed with the sound. Just how good or HI-FI are these supposed to sound (as compared to other early stereo jukes, any mfgr.)? Forget that I replaced the speakers...just how can this juke be described as Hi-Fi when it only has 2 woofers in it? The mono models before and the stereo models after have multi speaker systems. Seems to me seeburg should have put in tweeters...there's plenty of room. My main complaint (and I have coaxials in there now) that (depending on the vintage of record) the sound can sound good (most 50's and 60's records), but alot of modern (80's-90's) records sound to midrangy...not enough bass or good hi's. The bass is too muddy on the highest position, so it's on the click just below max bass...treble is about 1/2 way (pos. 4 or 5 out of 6). Just doesn't sound that great for me. I've tried different T needle sets to varying degrees of quality. What's left to try? (I haven't tried sapphire yet, but the diamonds are expensive enough). I really liked the sound of a wurly 2300 several years ago...lots of juke bass punch, which is lacking in the 222....no juke punch/ sound. I guess I could reinstall the original woofers. how does an AY or Q sound..they use the same amp don't they? I'm also running 6CZ5's (with the socket mod)instead of 6973's, would that make a difference? Thank you for the input, Rick. |
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#2
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I restored 2... AY160`s they do have somewhat the same amp than the
222, same outputs but the 222 has way more parts in it . One had the 2973`s the other i converted to 5CZ5`s . Both machines sounded much like you explain your 222 ... just ``average`` , my Seeburg G blows them away . For some reason the original speakers sounded better bass wise . I had the one AY in my garage for a long time and if i stood in one place in the room i could hear nice deep bass . One option would be to add a new free standing sub woofer to the 222 and add 2 small tweeters right in front of the original woofers . I have noticed many older records just dont have very good bass . Maybe someone knows of a cartridge change that would help ? The mid 60`s solid state seeburgs had pretty good bass . |
#3
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#4
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Hi Rick,
I'm not a sound expert, but I thought I would respond to your post. Looking back, it seems to me that Seeburg brought out a lot of models with a certain "gimmick" (for lack of a better word), or "hook" to differentiate themselves from the other top three manufacturers. For instance, the G of 1953 had a little 4" speaker along with the normal 15", and they dubbed it "high fidelity, which was different than the accompanying model W of the same year. The next year's model R had five speakers, and a "high fidelity amp to go with it. When stereo came into being, Seeburg's hook was the twin Channel 1/Channel 2 remote speakers to go along with the juke, to get that "true" stereo sound. They even made a 45 rpm demo record to go along with each sold model to the operators, to inform them of the wonderful technology of stereo. I've talked to some amp re-builders in the industry, and few of them really like the amp from the 220/222. I can't help you with the sound problems you're describing...too technical for me. Perhaps someone else in the "group" can help more. Rob ..com (Rick Force) wrote in message . com... Hi all, Since I got my 222 back from being rebuilt (it runs great), i'm not too impressed with the sound. Just how good or HI-FI are these supposed to sound (as compared to other early stereo jukes, any mfgr.)? Forget that I replaced the speakers...just how can this juke be described as Hi-Fi when it only has 2 woofers in it? The mono models before and the stereo models after have multi speaker systems. Seems to me seeburg should have put in tweeters...there's plenty of room. My main complaint (and I have coaxials in there now) that (depending on the vintage of record) the sound can sound good (most 50's and 60's records), but alot of modern (80's-90's) records sound to midrangy...not enough bass or good hi's. The bass is too muddy on the highest position, so it's on the click just below max bass...treble is about 1/2 way (pos. 4 or 5 out of 6). Just doesn't sound that great for me. I've tried different T needle sets to varying degrees of quality. What's left to try? (I haven't tried sapphire yet, but the diamonds are expensive enough). I really liked the sound of a wurly 2300 several years ago...lots of juke bass punch, which is lacking in the 222....no juke punch/ sound. I guess I could reinstall the original woofers. how does an AY or Q sound..they use the same amp don't they? I'm also running 6CZ5's (with the socket mod)instead of 6973's, would that make a difference? Thank you for the input, Rick. |
#5
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How did it sound with the original speakers? What you installed may be
incorrect for the juke. Orignal speakers are considered full range, as used in guitar amps. These are not woofers. If you installed woofers you loose that midrange. Much better to repair or re-cone original speakers. Seeburg paid their enginers a lot of money to match those speakers to that amp and cabinet. For best sound, hook up external speakers. This will also give you the true stereo effect and you can crank it up and not have to wory about cabinet rattles. |
#6
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see my little blurb on my web site concerning your amp
if the amp was properly rebuilt, (replacing caps and out of tolerance resistors) and the original speakers reconed. the box really sounds good. remove the (REMOVETHIS) between my name and the @ to email me thanks rich the web site http://webpages.charter.net/richklestinez click enter then select notes and stuff. "Rick Force" wrote in message om... Hi all, Since I got my 222 back from being rebuilt (it runs great), i'm not too impressed with the sound. Just how good or HI-FI are these supposed to sound (as compared to other early stereo jukes, any mfgr.)? Forget that I replaced the speakers...just how can this juke be described as Hi-Fi when it only has 2 woofers in it? The mono models before and the stereo models after have multi speaker systems. Seems to me seeburg should have put in tweeters...there's plenty of room. My main complaint (and I have coaxials in there now) that (depending on the vintage of record) the sound can sound good (most 50's and 60's records), but alot of modern (80's-90's) records sound to midrangy...not enough bass or good hi's. The bass is too muddy on the highest position, so it's on the click just below max bass...treble is about 1/2 way (pos. 4 or 5 out of 6). Just doesn't sound that great for me. I've tried different T needle sets to varying degrees of quality. What's left to try? (I haven't tried sapphire yet, but the diamonds are expensive enough). I really liked the sound of a wurly 2300 several years ago...lots of juke bass punch, which is lacking in the 222....no juke punch/ sound. I guess I could reinstall the original woofers. how does an AY or Q sound..they use the same amp don't they? I'm also running 6CZ5's (with the socket mod)instead of 6973's, would that make a difference? Thank you for the input, Rick. |
#7
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#8
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Hi Rich,
Thank you for the reply in the NG (nice site...my wife likes the Panther). OK, here's what I've done to the 222 to try and improve the sound (before the amp was rebuilt, but it didn't seem to matter): Besides trying several different sets of T needles to find a supplier that sounds ok, I replaced the original full range speakers (still have them just in case) with 12" coaxials, but they are 8 ohm wheras the originals were 16 ohm....does that matter? I also (with socket mod) replaced the 6973's with 6cz5's (don't remember why...I think most, if not all were missing or bad), so I went with a cheaper replacement (maybe got what I payed for?). Is there a difference in sound quality between the 2 types? if so, I would like to buy a set of 4 of your used (I assume tested good) 6973's. How much with shipping to 91761? Looking at the responses on the NG, I may also reinstall the original 12 inchers and see how they sound with the rebuilt amp and the 2 types of tubes (not able to use the twin remote speakers as my wife doesn't want them in the living room, so the juke must stand on it's own...hence the coaxial replacements. Not sure I found your blurb on your site, unless it was the notes section with your mods. Any help would be great. Please email me the price for the tubes with shipping. Thank you, Rick. |
#9
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Hi Charlie,
It sounded 50's which was ok for records of that era (they sounded pretty good), but sounded basy/muddy (no hi's at all) for the newer records which is mostly what will be playing on this (I have records from the 50's-2000's, mainly 70's and 80's). I just figured I could upgrade to modern speakers that matched electrically (almost...the originals were 16 ohms, the new ones are 8, but same wattage rating, 25 watts)so I could have 50's styling, but modern sound to match the bulk of the records that will be played on this...guess not, huh? "That's my story and i'm sticking to it" Rick. (Charlie Maier) wrote in message . com... How did it sound with the original speakers? What you installed may be incorrect for the juke. Orignal speakers are considered full range, as used in guitar amps. These are not woofers. If you installed woofers you loose that midrange. Much better to repair or re-cone original speakers. Seeburg paid their enginers a lot of money to match those speakers to that amp and cabinet. For best sound, hook up external speakers. This will also give you the true stereo effect and you can crank it up and not have to wory about cabinet rattles. |
#10
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I don't know about your 222 but my 220 sounds great!!!!!!
"Rick Force" wrote in message om... Hi all, Since I got my 222 back from being rebuilt (it runs great), i'm not too impressed with the sound. Just how good or HI-FI are these supposed to sound (as compared to other early stereo jukes, any mfgr.)? Forget that I replaced the speakers...just how can this juke be described as Hi-Fi when it only has 2 woofers in it? The mono models before and the stereo models after have multi speaker systems. Seems to me seeburg should have put in tweeters...there's plenty of room. My main complaint (and I have coaxials in there now) that (depending on the vintage of record) the sound can sound good (most 50's and 60's records), but alot of modern (80's-90's) records sound to midrangy...not enough bass or good hi's. The bass is too muddy on the highest position, so it's on the click just below max bass...treble is about 1/2 way (pos. 4 or 5 out of 6). Just doesn't sound that great for me. I've tried different T needle sets to varying degrees of quality. What's left to try? (I haven't tried sapphire yet, but the diamonds are expensive enough). I really liked the sound of a wurly 2300 several years ago...lots of juke bass punch, which is lacking in the 222....no juke punch/ sound. I guess I could reinstall the original woofers. how does an AY or Q sound..they use the same amp don't they? I'm also running 6CZ5's (with the socket mod)instead of 6973's, would that make a difference? Thank you for the input, Rick. |
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