Responsibilities of Catalogues

J. A. Mc. wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:39:49 +0100, "David F."
found these unused words floating about:
=20
=20
I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog e=
ditor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The mark=
etplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketpla=
ce,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should =
reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set price=
s. To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the un=
knowing
reader something that is not true.


Try telling that to Stanley Gibbons!

=20
... or Scott !!!!

But Scott doesn't sell stamps, and SG does; so there's a bit of a=20
difference.

On the other hand, SG (probably) lists a price for the British Guiana 1=A2=
=20
magenta, or US C3a; but if you tried to buy one from them, you'd quickly =

find that they aren't selling it, either at all, or at the catalogue pric=
e.

Figueireda's claim that prices must always go up is silly too. There's=20
plenty of anecdotal evidence that prices do go down. Ask Stephen Suffet. =

When new stocks of fomerly rare varieties come on the market the price=20
does indeed go down.

His further claim that catalogue prices must go up at the rate of=20
inflation of the issuing country is equally silly. The South Africa=20
unissued 40=A2 Bible of 1987 probably does go up in the South Africa=20
Colour Catalogue by the rate of inflation, but why must it go up in=20
Scott or SG? The rate of inflation may well be offset by the exchange=20
rate in those other currencies.

--

Kaleb S. KEITHLEY

Kaleb KEITHLEY wrote in message
...

- snip -

His further claim that catalogue prices must go up at the rate of
inflation of the issuing country is equally silly. The South Africa
unissued 40¢ Bible of 1987 probably does go up in the South Africa
Colour Catalogue by the rate of inflation, but why must it go up in
Scott or SG? The rate of inflation may well be offset by the exchange
rate in those other currencies.
--

This reminds me of my childhood's greengrocer in
Copenhagen, who really wasn't too bright, nor a
good businessman.

He believed firmly that if he didn't sell enough of
greeneries to support his family, he only had to
raise the prices to ensure his income ... ;-)

Mette

Thanks to all those who participated in this thread.

I'm glad to notice that the participants agree about the idea that the
catalogue prices should reflect those established by the stamp market.

Just to mention that:

- Mr. de Figueiredo is the President of the Afinsa Group
- The Afinsa Bienes Tangibles, S.A. is a sponsor of Flash, the magazine of
the FIP that published the mentioned article.

Victor Manta
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"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could serve
to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates
loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise, at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the
catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe from
the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues
should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Victor Manta

Someone mentioned that the catalogue price is a comparison price. This
is also not true. Take a simple example GB commemoratives in Gibbons.
At the present time you can buy recent letter rate commemoratives in
kiloware relatively cheaply - yet these are catalogued at at least 50p
plus each. A 1960s letter rate commemorative is catalogued at the
minimum ( in my cataloge 10p). Try buying a used 1960s commemorative
at a fifth of the price of last years Christmas stamp! Elementary my
dear Watson!! Take another example the long series of French
definitives showing town coats of arms - all priced at 10p.Some are
very common, but many are quite elusive,and some are scarce outside
existing collections. Where is the logic? You can look at the minimum
priced stamps in any catalogue you can mention and the relative
scarcity factor is enormous- the fact is that most catalogue companies
are only interested in selling the higher priced acknowledged rare
stamps and don't know ( or care ) about the relative scarcity of the
stamps we lesser mortals collect. It is a gut feeling but my guess is
that substantial numbers of cheaper stamps that these dealers sell are
a "by-product" aquired when obtaining collections containing rarities.

I use a catalogue purely for the information they contain, and
whatever the pricing policy of these dealers are they should be
appreciated for producing easy to read concise information.





.. A. Mc. wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:24:00 +0200, "Victor Manta"
found these unused words floating about:

In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could serve to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise, at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe from the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Absolutely 'wishful' thinking!

Would you have the highly inflated and very speculative prices of the
late 70's and early 80's continue? Penny Blacks are still selling
under that peak as an example. But how many are buying at £200 each
for a truly VF 4 margin?

Perhaps a few could remain in the market for the better issues, but
not at any form of 'guaranteed' price increase.

Scott has done a great dis-service to the collector by pricing VF
grade. Now dealers are foisting off Avg. and Fine to the less aware
and younger collectors at the 'catalogue' price with a whopping 15%
discount! "Hey it's below cat.!"

When they wake up - it's bye-bye stamp collecting-and- they'll keep
their kids and anyone they talk to away from the hobby.

Markets are markets - they go up with popularity and scarcity (if
really scarce) and down with changes and the times!

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 04:21:37 -0400, TC wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:39:49 +0100, "David F."
wrote:

I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog editor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The marketplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketplace,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set prices. To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the unknowing
reader something that is not true.


Try telling that to Stanley Gibbons!

David ;-)



Unlike many other catalogues, SG is actually a price list.
They are quite up front about it. You are free to buy
from them or not.

Scott has not sold stamps for many years. However they
have their own set of problems.

There are many flavours of catalogue and collectors will
use those that suit their needs and collecting habits.

I have several catalogues that I use for technical
information, but I ignore their prices. In such cases,
I use the ratio of two stamps and then apply them to
the real world values.

Usually the median of 2 of the better catalogs for the area
referenced... Works out about right.

Tracy Barber

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:32:05 +0200, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

Thanks to all those who participated in this thread.

I'm glad to notice that the participants agree about the idea that the
catalogue prices should reflect those established by the stamp market.

I know I've heard this many times here. Not only that, but the
internet will be eventually effecting prices as well. It will take
time, but it will...

Tracy Barber

Thanks to all those who participated in this thread.

I'm glad to notice that the participants agree about the idea that the
catalogue prices should reflect those established by the stamp market.

I know I've heard this many times here. Not only that, but the
internet will be eventually effecting prices as well. It will take
time, but it will...

Tracy Barber


Curses!! That's another plan out-the-window !

David.

The comparison price theory falls flat when stamps are priced at the catalog
editor's minimum. But when they are priced higher, then the comparison
theory gives some guide to market ratios.

Tony

"malcolm hirst" wrote in message
om...
Someone mentioned that the catalogue price is a comparison price. This
is also not true. Take a simple example GB commemoratives in Gibbons.
At the present time you can buy recent letter rate commemoratives in
kiloware relatively cheaply - yet these are catalogued at at least 50p
plus each. A 1960s letter rate commemorative is catalogued at the
minimum ( in my cataloge 10p). Try buying a used 1960s commemorative
at a fifth of the price of last years Christmas stamp! Elementary my
dear Watson!! Take another example the long series of French
definitives showing town coats of arms - all priced at 10p.Some are
very common, but many are quite elusive,and some are scarce outside
existing collections. Where is the logic? You can look at the minimum
priced stamps in any catalogue you can mention and the relative
scarcity factor is enormous- the fact is that most catalogue companies
are only interested in selling the higher priced acknowledged rare
stamps and don't know ( or care ) about the relative scarcity of the
stamps we lesser mortals collect. It is a gut feeling but my guess is
that substantial numbers of cheaper stamps that these dealers sell are
a "by-product" aquired when obtaining collections containing rarities.

I use a catalogue purely for the information they contain, and
whatever the pricing policy of these dealers are they should be
appreciated for producing easy to read concise information.





. A. Mc. wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:24:00 +0200, "Victor Manta"
found these unused words floating about:

In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino
de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning
the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could
serve to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates
loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first
of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult
to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over
the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise,
at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the
catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe
from the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active
in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years
due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues
should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Absolutely 'wishful' thinking!

Would you have the highly inflated and very speculative prices of the
late 70's and early 80's continue? Penny Blacks are still selling
under that peak as an example. But how many are buying at £200 each
for a truly VF 4 margin?

Perhaps a few could remain in the market for the better issues, but
not at any form of 'guaranteed' price increase.

Scott has done a great dis-service to the collector by pricing VF
grade. Now dealers are foisting off Avg. and Fine to the less aware
and younger collectors at the 'catalogue' price with a whopping 15%
discount! "Hey it's below cat.!"

When they wake up - it's bye-bye stamp collecting-and- they'll keep
their kids and anyone they talk to away from the hobby.

Markets are markets - they go up with popularity and scarcity (if
really scarce) and down with changes and the times!

A.E. Gelat wrote:

In the information pages of the catalog, Gibbons states that "Prices of
stamps in this catalogue are the selling prices of Stanley Gibbons Ltd at
the time the book went to press". It would be interesting to find out how
many people buy stamps from Gibbons at full catalog value?

I don't know how many people pay Gibbons' prices, but I certainly have
done, on more than one occasion. In my collecting area there are a few
stamps which I think are seriously underpriced by Gibbons. I did, in
fact, comment on this to one of SG's management team a few years ago;
his response was "OK, tell us what you think the prices should be". Now,
that's an interesting proposition. It isn't in my interest for them to
increase the price, on my advice, of stamps which I haven't been able to
find at any price. I did not, therefore, take up the challenge.

--
John Ray, London UK.

Mail to mefp49 is unlikely to be read. I can be contacted at xcf70 (same
ISP).

malcolm hirst wrote

Someone mentioned that the catalogue price is a comparison price. This
is also not true. Take a simple example GB commemoratives in Gibbons.
At the present time you can buy recent letter rate commemoratives in
kiloware relatively cheaply - yet these are catalogued at at least 50p
plus each.

This is because Gibbons' catalogue prices are for superb
examples with small, tidy, CDS type cancellations. You
will probably find that 99% of stamps in kiloware have
wavy line or slogan type cancellations. These would be
priced much lower.

- Dave
--
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