Responsibilities of Catalogues

In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could serve to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise, at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe from the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Victor Manta
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When the number of copies of a stamp issue is greater
than the number of collectors of that issue, then the price
is a minimum and does not change. When the number of
stamps of an issue is less than the number of potential
collectors, then the price floats to such a value as the number
of collectors willing to purchase. (Of course there are exceptions
because of varieties and specialized collectors). Over time
some of the stamps of an issue are lost (fire flood or bad
handling). One consequence is that old definitive issues
appreciate faster than commemoratives because collectors
tend to accumulate and protect these latter ones.
So if the number of collectors decreases significantly,
the price of SOME stamps must also decrease.

Victor Manta wrote:

In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could serve to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise, at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe from the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Victor Manta
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org
1900 Links Online: http://pwmo.org/weblinks/links.asp
Art on Stamps: http://values.ch
Romania Shown by Its Stamps: http://marci-postale.com
Spanish Africa: http://www.values.ch/sna-site/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog editor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The marketplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketplace,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set prices. To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the unknowing
reader something that is not true.


Try telling that to Stanley Gibbons!

David ;-)

From: (Dave Kent)
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: 21 Jul 2003 21:15:29 GMT
Subject: Responsibilities of Catalogues

I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog editor is
to report what prices ARE.

I have asked this before, but no one has ever answered it adequately: How
can the staff of any stamp catalogue know with any degree of certainty what
the prices of stamps actually are 1) when the market is worldwide 2) when
stamp issues number in the millions 3) when many stamps are so little sought
after and/or so rare/unusual that hardly anyone ever sees one of them, let
alone enough of them to establish a market value 4) and when the vast bulk
of stamps are passed from hand to hand in large lots?

I have stamps that I have gotten free, that I have paid a pittance for, that
I have paid 50%, or 60% or 70% of catalogue value for. I have some stamps
that I have paid more than catalogue value for.

If I buy an auction lot of 25 stamps for $25, and find a stamp in it that
"catalogues" for $25, and sell the 24 other stamps to other collectors for
$24, what was the price of the $25 stamp? Seems to me it has become a $1
stamp, until I sell it for whatever I can get for it. If I get $10 for it,
then it's worth $10, regardless of its catalogue price.

It seems utterly ludicrous to me that anyone thinks they "know" what the
market value -- read "price" -- of any stamp is at any given time in any
given place. I contend that stamp catalogues largely reflect the fantasies
of people who imagine that they have their finger on the planet-wide pulse
of the hobby. Stamps are worth what I am willing to pay for them or what
someone else is willing to pay me for them. Scott doesn't have more than a
vague clue what those amounts might be. I've never known a collector or a
dealer who has been contacted by Scott for any reason whatsoever.

Bob Ingraham

How come catalog editors do not report what the prices ARE?. In the vast
majority of cases, stamps can be bought from dealers at a fraction of
catalog, so catalog price is meaningless for any single stamp. However, in
a set of stamps, if a particular value is priced much higher than the rest,
there must be a specific reason for that, so it becomes a comparison price,
not an actual price.

In the information pages of the catalog, Gibbons states that "Prices of
stamps in this catalogue are the selling prices of Stanley Gibbons Ltd at
the time the book went to press". It would be interesting to find out how
many people buy stamps from Gibbons at full catalog value?

Tony

"Dave Kent" wrote in message
...
I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog
editor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The
marketplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketplace,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should
reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set prices.
To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the
unknowing
reader something that is not true.

A.E. Gelat wrote in message
...
How come catalog editors do not report what the prices ARE?. In the vast
majority of cases, stamps can be bought from dealers at a fraction of
catalog, so catalog price is meaningless for any single stamp. However,
in
a set of stamps, if a particular value is priced much higher than the
rest,
there must be a specific reason for that, so it becomes a comparison
price,
not an actual price.

In the information pages of the catalog, Gibbons states that "Prices of
stamps in this catalogue are the selling prices of Stanley Gibbons Ltd at
the time the book went to press". It would be interesting to find out how
many people buy stamps from Gibbons at full catalog value?

Tony,

I can assure you that if you visit Gibbons' sales rooms in
The Strand in London and ask for a particular stamp, or
set, or series, they will charge you *their* listed price for it,
according to the latest catalogue. I don't know how many
people actually do buy, but Gibbons is still in business, and
has been for quite some time ... ;-)

And I have never seen that sales room not crowded with
customers who hand over their credit cards to the sales
assistant.

Mette

Mette, I agree; I also visited their shop and asked about prices, but did
not buy anything other than a catalog.

Tony

"A.M.Heindorff" wrote in message
...
A.E. Gelat wrote in message
...
How come catalog editors do not report what the prices ARE?. In the
vast
majority of cases, stamps can be bought from dealers at a fraction of
catalog, so catalog price is meaningless for any single stamp. However,
in
a set of stamps, if a particular value is priced much higher than the
rest,
there must be a specific reason for that, so it becomes a comparison
price,
not an actual price.

In the information pages of the catalog, Gibbons states that "Prices of
stamps in this catalogue are the selling prices of Stanley Gibbons Ltd
at
the time the book went to press". It would be interesting to find out
how
many people buy stamps from Gibbons at full catalog value?

Tony,

I can assure you that if you visit Gibbons' sales rooms in
The Strand in London and ask for a particular stamp, or
set, or series, they will charge you *their* listed price for it,
according to the latest catalogue. I don't know how many
people actually do buy, but Gibbons is still in business, and
has been for quite some time ... ;-)

And I have never seen that sales room not crowded with
customers who hand over their credit cards to the sales
assistant.

Mette

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:24:00 +0200, "Victor Manta"
found these unused words floating about:

In the Flash Nr. 84 - 2003, the official magazine of the FIP, Albertino de
Figueiredo writes:

"... Another responsibility of catalogue publishers is that concerning the
pricing policy. I feel that there are some basic rules which could serve to
promote a philatelic environment which truly captivates and creates loyalty
among collectors and which remunerates dealers appropriately. The first of
these rules is to abstain from lowering prices - a temptation difficult to
justify if we look at the historical evolution of the quotations over the
last few decades. On the contrary, we should ensure that prices rise, at
least in line with the rate of inflation of the country where the catalogue
is published. The value of collectors' stamps will thus remain safe from the
effect of inflation and collectors will be encouraged to remain active in
philately. Of course, when certain stamps become scarce over the years due
to the phenomenon of high demand against low supply, then catalogues should
increase their prices according to the dictates of the market ..."

What do you think about? Wishful thinking?

Absolutely 'wishful' thinking!

Would you have the highly inflated and very speculative prices of the
late 70's and early 80's continue? Penny Blacks are still selling
under that peak as an example. But how many are buying at £200 each
for a truly VF 4 margin?

Perhaps a few could remain in the market for the better issues, but
not at any form of 'guaranteed' price increase.

Scott has done a great dis-service to the collector by pricing VF
grade. Now dealers are foisting off Avg. and Fine to the less aware
and younger collectors at the 'catalogue' price with a whopping 15%
discount! "Hey it's below cat.!"

When they wake up - it's bye-bye stamp collecting-and- they'll keep
their kids and anyone they talk to away from the hobby.

Markets are markets - they go up with popularity and scarcity (if
really scarce) and down with changes and the times!

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:39:49 +0100, "David F."
found these unused words floating about:

I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog editor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The marketplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketplace,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set prices. To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the unknowing
reader something that is not true.


Try telling that to Stanley Gibbons!

.... or Scott !!!!

But then I believe that both countries have 'alternate' pricing guides
for their 'home' issues. The U.S. retailer really uses Brookman. It's
priced in multi grades and both NH and LH for 'mint'.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:38:56 -0700, J. A. Mc.
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:39:49 +0100, "David F."
found these unused words floating about:

I will disagree with Figueiredo most strongly. The duty of a catalog editor is
to report what prices ARE, not what he would like them to be. The marketplace
dictates prices, not catalog editors. If prices go up in the marketplace,
catalogs should reflect that, and if they go down the catalogs should reflect
that as well. Editors have no authority whatsoever to try to set prices. To do
so would be very harmful to the hobby because it would imply to the unknowing
reader something that is not true.


Try telling that to Stanley Gibbons!

... or Scott !!!!

But then I believe that both countries have 'alternate' pricing guides
for their 'home' issues. The U.S. retailer really uses Brookman. It's
priced in multi grades and both NH and LH for 'mint'.

Canada Specialized Catalogue serves as the Canadian retailler's tool.
The range of prices for the various grades of the 50c Bluenose shows
why.

Blair



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