Ebay must stop the frauds or die

Frank wrote: Many of these "burned" people will never buy coins again,
removing them forever from the pool of collectors. snip When I was new
to collecting coins I made mistakes and got burned for hundreds of
dollars. You live and learn and then you move on wiser and a bit poorer.
If you really enjoy collecting coins I don't think getting burned will
drive you away forever from the hobby. Collecting is in the blood. Ed

jjs wrote:
"Heather G." wrote in message
...


[...] Here in NYC you can buy a Rolex for $30 in Chinatown


My gosh, that's 300% retail! You can find a fake Rolex for about $11 and the
middleman is making 50%. Funny how they are still better than a Timex. Use
them for the life of the battery then throw it away.

I haven't found a Rolex, but I have found "Tag Heuer", "Movado", "Gucci"
and many others in NYC for even less than $11. I sold most of them for
a minimum $40. The rest I wore until the battery died.

Walter wrote:


jjs wrote:

"Heather G." wrote in message
...


[...] Here in NYC you can buy a Rolex for $30 in Chinatown



My gosh, that's 300% retail! You can find a fake Rolex for about $11
and the middleman is making 50%. Funny how they are still better than
a Timex. Use them for the life of the battery then throw it away.


I haven't found a Rolex, but I have found "Tag Heuer", "Movado", "Gucci"
and many others in NYC for even less than $11. I sold most of them for
a minimum $40. The rest I wore until the battery died.


Our caver's wrist sundials completely eliminate any need for Rolex.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email:

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Jesse wrote:
"Michael Ng" wrote in
news:G0jMd.16026$mt.12307@fed1read03:
They could make a huge dent in this problem by simply not allowing
Asians to sell coins outside of Asia unless,say, they have a FB
profile
of 50 and above with 99% +. That will never happen since it would
effect ebays bottom
line negatively. I'd like to see the feds step in and nail ebay
for
aiding and abetting counterfeiters and forgers.
As a buyer, the old adage 'if it seems to good to be true, it
probably
is' is very valid here - And any seller originating in Asia should
immediately raise a flag - Though as you say theres bound to be a
trickle effect here, and bogus sellers could be just about
anywhere.
Your just not going to find to many Capped Busts in MS condition
in the
$50

Being Asian, I find your statement highly prejudicial.

Mike



I call em as I see em - And I'm not about to whitewash a well known
tendancy within the numismatic community to be politically correct.
Everyone knows the vast majority of counterfeit coins come from Asia
-
China, Singapore, Honk Kong, Malaysia ect. Is that something you
think
that should just be ignored just because you happen to be Asian ? I
would
not buy a coin on ebay from Asia if my life depended on it - And it
always
amazes me that these scam artists are able to draw in sucker after
sucker
with their fake crap. If any USA based seller tried that on the same
scale, they'd have the Secret Service knocking down their door
quicker
than you can say ****. The region has a well deserved reputation for
bootlegging everything under the sun, and things are certainly not
going
to improve with attitudes like yours.

Jesse,
Of course, the issue can't be ignored. Counterfeits are a major
problem in Asia. Not just in coins, but in jewelry,
handbags,bootlegged movies, etc. There is no doubt about that. I
wouldn't buy anything expensive in China myself, even though I'm
Chinese. However, people do buy these fakes just for the "look", and I
really have no problems with that.

The statement you are making, however, is not pointing to certain
specific examples, but an overall generalization of Asians. You're
bsaically stating that all Asians cannot be trusted when selling goods.
Everybody has his own prejudice, whether it's from word-of-mouth or
cultural experience. Off the subject, do you know that the U.S. is
probably the most politically-correct nation? In Japan, they have
work-related age discrimination/limits. In china, they probably have
the same thing. Anyhow, ...

Furthermore, I find your original statement insufficient on two
matters.

#1 -- are you implying that Asians who sell fake goods can sell such
goods to other Asians all they want?

#2 -- Many people of at least average intelligence buy Asian goods,
knowing that they are fakes. Having said this, an Asian seller who
sells goods to people can easily have feedback of 50+ with 99.5%
without much problem.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Mike

I don't hold the VFW responsible for any mischief perpetrated by
non-members
conducting business on its premises, nor did I imply that I do.

Thank you for your service to our country, BrotherBart.

Whooosh!

I was doing a take-off on the Asian guys remark.

Our caver's wrist sundials completely eliminate any need for Rolex.

No good in Manhattan Don. Or Seattle for that matter.
No sun.

"jjs" wrote in :

"Jesse" wrote in message
...
"Michael Ng" wrote in
news:G0jMd.16026$mt.12307@fed1read03:

Being Asian, I find your statement highly prejudicial.

I call em as I see em -

You paint with a rather large brush, Jesse. Asia is a huge territory. I
would agree upon the counterfeit coins point, and would add ripped-DVDs to
the list. But there are some Chinese sellers with good deals on China-only
merchandise.

My useless proposal was for ebay to ban Asians [from Asia] from selling coins
until they reach a certain reputable feedback status.
I can see how such a policy would be fraught with complications.
As I said, ebay will not do a thing besides pay lip service until they are
forced to do so by U.S. law.


[...] If any USA based seller tried that on the same
scale, they'd have the Secret Service knocking down their door quicker
than you can say ****.

Not if the USA citizen was selling counterfeit antique Chinese money. See
how it works?

Lets be realistic here.
How big of a market to you suppose old fake Chinese coins would create - When
in fact if such a market existed on a large scale, the cons would certainly
be out of the woodwork and doing it already.

wrote in news:1107448190.312492.95070
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


Jesse wrote:
"Michael Ng" wrote in
news:G0jMd.16026$mt.12307@fed1read03:
They could make a huge dent in this problem by simply not allowing
Asians to sell coins outside of Asia unless,say, they have a FB
profile
of 50 and above with 99% +. That will never happen since it would
effect ebays bottom
line negatively. I'd like to see the feds step in and nail ebay
for
aiding and abetting counterfeiters and forgers.
As a buyer, the old adage 'if it seems to good to be true, it
probably
is' is very valid here - And any seller originating in Asia should
immediately raise a flag - Though as you say theres bound to be a
trickle effect here, and bogus sellers could be just about
anywhere.
Your just not going to find to many Capped Busts in MS condition
in the
$50

Being Asian, I find your statement highly prejudicial.

Mike



I call em as I see em - And I'm not about to whitewash a well known
tendancy within the numismatic community to be politically correct.
Everyone knows the vast majority of counterfeit coins come from Asia
-
China, Singapore, Honk Kong, Malaysia ect. Is that something you
think
that should just be ignored just because you happen to be Asian ? I
would
not buy a coin on ebay from Asia if my life depended on it - And it
always
amazes me that these scam artists are able to draw in sucker after
sucker
with their fake crap. If any USA based seller tried that on the same
scale, they'd have the Secret Service knocking down their door
quicker
than you can say ****. The region has a well deserved reputation for
bootlegging everything under the sun, and things are certainly not
going
to improve with attitudes like yours.

Jesse,
Of course, the issue can't be ignored. Counterfeits are a major
problem in Asia. Not just in coins, but in jewelry,
handbags,bootlegged movies, etc. There is no doubt about that. I
wouldn't buy anything expensive in China myself, even though I'm
Chinese. However, people do buy these fakes just for the "look", and I
really have no problems with that.

You are stretching the problem into the realm of the ludicrous.
I seriously doubt if many purchase these things with an eye to creating a
fake family hierloom, or to have bragging rights of owning a realistic
replica of a valuable and sought after coin.
They are either :
1) PT Barnum style idiots or
2) Scammers themselves, with full intentions to pass this junk off at a
high profit.
Bear in mind that most of these aren't mickey mouse immitations.
Most are very good copies that can challenge even an experienced
numologist.

The statement you are making, however, is not pointing to certain
specific examples, but an overall generalization of Asians. You're
bsaically stating that all Asians cannot be trusted when selling goods.

No, not goods.
Coins.
And I'll repeat it here for posterity - An Asian from Asia cannot be
trusted selling U.S. coins on ebay.
That is not even an opinion, but a simple fact.

Everybody has his own prejudice, whether it's from word-of-mouth or
cultural experience.

I am prejudiced against greedy,scupleless sellers throwing a large monkey
wrench into a hobby that is a passion for many people - A large
international scam made possible with the direct complicity of a large U.S.
company.
Don't get wishy washy.
This has nothing to do with 'cultural experiences' - If Mongolians or
Icelanders were pulling the same scam on the same scale, I'd be down on
them just as much.

Off the subject, do you know that the U.S. is
probably the most politically-correct nation? In Japan, they have
work-related age discrimination/limits. In china, they probably have
the same thing. Anyhow, ...

Unfortunatly, USA is very politically correct.
I see a change in the wind, and I'll do my part to reverse that negative,
self destructive tendacy.


Furthermore, I find your original statement insufficient on two
matters.

#1 -- are you implying that Asians who sell fake goods can sell such
goods to other Asians all they want?

An Asian based in Asia selling fake goods to other Asians in Asia ?
I wouldn't agree that thats a good thing, but obviously that would be a
matter for Asians in Asia to be concerned about - Just as Germans selling
fake goods to other Germans in Germany would be primarily a German concern.
Again, lets be realistic on the subject at hand.
The market for valuable U.S. coins exists primarily right here in the USA.
I don't think that theres anything to stop Asians from bidding on these
auctions - And the fraudulent sellers would likely be just as happy to have
their money as they would ours - As long as they pay in greenbacks and not
dongs.
The fact is is that I doubt its ever happened, for 2 reasons:
1) I've heard alot of Asians are kinda poor, and don't have the extra $$$
to spare for a nice shiny old fake U.S. coin.
2) They are more aware than anyone that a scam is being run.

Any Asian is Asia sophisticated and well off enough to be a U.S. coin
collector would doubtless use the same cautions as me, and would not buy
any ebay coins from Asia.


#2 -- Many people of at least average intelligence buy Asian goods,
knowing that they are fakes. Having said this, an Asian seller who
sells goods to people can easily have feedback of 50+ with 99.5%
without much problem.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Mike


The FB thing would likely weed out at least 90% of them, as ebay usually
ends up NARU'ing them eventually ... Then they of course just change
accounts like a new shirt - Resulting in the fact that the vast majority of
these bogus sellers have little to no FB.
Having 99.5 isn't saying very much when you only have 3 FB's.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 02:29:47 GMT, "Frank Provasek"
wrote:

[snip]

There are also far too numerous offerings of gold coins of various
sorts, for example, where way down inside the description text it
might say "repro" or "replica" ... not downright illegal, but look at
how many people are bidding $50 and up for a trinket which must cost
$0.50 (at most) to produce. Sometimes the come-on is something like
"24 KARAT GOLD LEAF ..." or something like that.

Needless to say, the origin of these crooks could be in Asia, but
might just as well be in Europe or South America -- or even Texas!

The problem with feedback is that it can easily become (already is) a
racket. You get a couple of people with two or three computers, a
bunch of different e-mail addresses, and each gives the other 50+
feedbacks. Already you are an "established eBay-er" overnight. And it
is pretty hard to track them down.

There is a sucker born every day. Caveat emptor, I say.

--
Bob Hairgrove

BrotherBart wrote:
Our caver's wrist sundials completely eliminate any need for Rolex.


No good in Manhattan Don. Or Seattle for that matter.
No sun.





Works off your carbide lamp.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email:

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com