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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
malcolm wrote:
Can someone please confirm or deny my assumption that the number on "Briefzentrum" postmarks corresponds with the first 2 digits on the 5- digit "town" postmarks. Confirm. ... I need to make a decision whether to rearrange my postmark collection by political or postal boundaries. IMHO postal boundaries make more sense if it is just a question of arranging/ordering a collection. But if you wanted to show, say, the postal history of a region or a district, political boundaries are better. In short, do whatever fits your intentions best. ... but I cannot find a "general" site in English which sets out the principles and specifics of the "system", The first two figures are easy. See Wikipedia's page on "Postal codes in Germany". The following figures are for the individual towns, and certain ranges correspond to certain regions. Large towns have a whole range of postcodes that does not overlap with other towns' postcodes. The three last figures are also used to code postboxes and customers who receive a lot of mail such as city councils, large businesses, or some universities. nor a "reverse" postcode finder which allows me to find a town from the postcode. ... http://www.postdirekt.de/plzserver/PlzSearchServlet works both ways. I hope I could help. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
Can someone please confirm or deny my assumption that the number on
"Briefzentrum" postmarks corresponds with the first 2 digits on the 5- digit "town" postmarks. I already know that the regional postmark centres do not correspond to the "land" boundaries and I need to make a decision whether to rearrange my postmark collection by political or postal boundaries. I already have found a method of correlating the 4 digit West german postcodes with the 5 figure ones via Wikipedia. I have located several websites which enable me to find an individual postcode from a given address, but I cannot find a "general" site in English which sets out the principles and specifics of the "system", nor a "reverse" postcode finder which allows me to find a town from the postcode.The problem is that "Google" produces so many hits that I am completely unable to navigate through it. Any assistance would be gratefully received Malcolm |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
Jan-Martin
Thanks for that. I was reasonably certain of the correlation. Mine is a general postmark collection of the whole world. So the German part will be sectioned with the Briefzentrum "area" postmark first, then the constituent 5-digit marks in approximate numerical order within the Briefzentrum - and any pre- 5 digit or even pre- postcode markings mounted with the relevant 5 -digit ones - so each area will have its own mini-collection, and all the postmark from any period any town will also be together. Can you help me further, please? In what circumstances are the 5-digit "town" postmarks used in preference to the "area" marks? Is it that mail within 1 area is postmarked locally whereas inter-area and international mail uses the central sorting postmark, when it is forwarded to the destination "area" ? I have contemporary dates where some have the Briefzentrum pmk while others have the town mark. Unfortunately they are on piece from kiloware and not on cover so I have no evidence as to the destination in relation to the source. Also is there any difference in usage of first and second class letter mail, and packet post and parcels ? I would guess that registered or other special services receive the postmark at the post office counter rather than the sorting office , as happens in the UK. I do feel that the collection of this type of material has much more individualism than a straight stamp collection ( and it improves my geographical knowledge no end!! ) Thanks again for your assistance Malcolm, |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
malcolm wrote:
... In what circumstances are the 5-digit "town" postmarks used in preference to the "area" marks? Is it that mail within 1 area is postmarked locally whereas inter-area and international mail uses the central sorting postmark, when it is forwarded to the destination "area" ? No; there is no distinction between local and interurban mail any more. Everything that is posted in a postbox will go to the sorting centre (my translation of "Briefzentrum"), and be postmarked there. Many, if not most items that are posted in a post office will get the postmark of said office, but depending on the amount of mail, ordinary letters posted at the counter may also be postmarked at the sorting centre. Some bulk mailers have their own "town postmarks". These postmarks are of an easily recognisable design, and are mostly found on stamps of the mass mailing rates. ... Also is there any difference in usage of first and second class letter mail, and packet post and parcels ? There is no distinction between first and second class mail in Germany. Even mass mailings / printed matters (Infopost) seem to enter the normal mail stream once they have been through the sorting office. Small packets (Paeckchen) - if stamped - are normally postmarked at the post office where they are handed in. Parcels are not stamped and do not get "normal" postmarks; instead, the necessary information is printed on the parcel label. Of course, franking labels are becoming increasingly common. I would guess that registered or other special services receive the postmark at the post office counter rather than the sorting office , as happens in the UK. This is true. I do feel that the collection of this type of material has much more individualism than a straight stamp collection ... I agree. It also needs a lot of album pages ;-) If you find "BRIEFREGION" postmarks: They predate those with "BRIEFZENTRUM", and remained in use for a few years before they were all replaced. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
Jan-Martin
Thanks again for your very full reply to my questions. I have already mounted up my Briefzentrum and 5-figure postcodes, and am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. My pre-postcode collection will follow. I think that the info. which you supplied together with the various websites I have bookmarked will answer most of the questions which will arise, but I will no doubt have specific questions which I may return to in the future, and beg the board's indulgence in advance. Malcolm On Nov 21, 9:00*pm, Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote: malcolm wrote: ... In what circumstances are the 5-digit "town" postmarks used in preference to the "area" marks? Is it that mail within 1 area is postmarked locally whereas inter-area and international mail uses the central sorting postmark, when it is forwarded to the destination "area" ? No; there is no distinction between local and interurban mail any more. Everything that is posted in a postbox will go to the sorting centre (my translation of "Briefzentrum"), and be postmarked there. Many, if not most items that are posted in a post office will get the postmark of said office, but depending on the amount of mail, ordinary letters posted at the counter may also be postmarked at the sorting centre. Some bulk mailers have their own "town postmarks". These postmarks are of an easily recognisable design, and are mostly found on stamps of the mass mailing rates. * ... Also is there any difference in usage of first and second class letter mail, and packet post and parcels ? There is no distinction between first and second class mail in Germany. Even mass mailings / printed matters (Infopost) seem to enter the normal mail stream once they have been through the sorting office. Small packets (Paeckchen) - if stamped - are normally postmarked at the post office where they are handed in. Parcels are not stamped and do not get "normal" postmarks; instead, the necessary information is printed on the parcel label. Of course, franking labels are becoming increasingly common. I would guess that registered or other special services receive the postmark at the post office counter rather than the sorting office , as happens in the UK. This is true. I do feel that the collection of this type of material has much more individualism than a straight stamp *collection ... I agree. It also needs a lot of album pages ;-) If you find "BRIEFREGION" postmarks: They predate those with "BRIEFZENTRUM", and remained in use for a few years before they were all replaced. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
malcolm wrote:
... am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. There is a conversion page at http://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart....n/ako/plz.html (note that it is not an official one!) that might help you matching old postcodes to new ones (as they were in 1994). Of course, there have been changes to post offices and to administrative districts in the meantime. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
Thanks again Jan-Martin. I have tried to use the site you mention.
However I cannot find the new postcode by just using the old - I seem to have to have the town name as well - although I cannot read sufficient German to know whether I am actually using the site correctly.Many of the actual names on the postmarks are not identifiable. However a combination of other sources and sites has meant that I have managed to identify all the postmarks except 6. They are 5500,2724,5357. I trhink 5500 may be Trier,2724 contains "rotenburg", and 5357 ends ttal, but the name is too short for Wupperttal. 6700 ????? am Rhein 1 2963 Sudbrookmerland The last one although I have the full text completely defies all efforts to identify it. I suspect that the spelling has changed.Fallingrain has a Sudbruch and a Sudbrock. The former pronunciation is favourite I think. There is no Google for Sudbrook, Merland OR Sudbrookmerland. Any ideas Jan-Martin ( or anyone else ) Malcolm n Nov 27, 6:55*pm, Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote: malcolm wrote: ... am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. There is a conversion page athttp://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/menschen/ako/plz.html (note that it is not an official one!) that might help you matching old postcodes to new ones (as they were in 1994). Of course, there have been changes to post offices and to administrative districts in the meantime. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
I used to have an old German road atlas that had an index in the
back ordered according to the old 4-digit postcodes. In the late '90s, I happened to be overweight with my luggage so I left the thing behind, seeing as how it was getting obsolete (the change to 5-digit codes was made in 1993) and it was time for a new atlas anyway. I wish I had that old atlas back again .... Based on assorted Google searches combining the numbers with PLZ (abbreviation for Postleitzahl, the German word for postcode) I can find the following: 2724 can be Bötersen, Everinghausen, Ahausen, Stuckenborstel, Sottrum (Rotenburg is PLZ 2720, these towns are in Landkreis Rotenburg - probably lots of other small towns share that PLZ too) 2963 is Südbrookmerland (umlaut over the u, can be spelled Suedbrookmerland without using an umlaut) 5357 is Swisttal 5500 is Trier 6700 is Ludwigshafen am Rhein Postcard collector sites are often organized by old PLZs - here's one I used. Enter the PLZ under "Schnellsuche" and click "SUCHEN" http://www.ansichtskarten-center.de/webshop/index.php Another one: http://www.briefmarkenfischer.de/ind...utschland.html Any lists of old PLZs I could find were generally very spotty, missing lots of numbers. The biggest list I could find was this one: http://reichsmeldestelle.info/plz/a.html Replace "a.html" with "b.html", "c.html", etc to do a labour-intensive search of the list, using Ctrl-F or whatever the menu shortcut for searching happens to be, according to the internet browser you are using. West German PLZs have a W- prefix, East German PLZs have an O- prefix. Ryan ----- malcolm wrote: Thanks again Jan-Martin. I have tried to use the site you mention. However I cannot find the new postcode by just using the old - I seem to have to have the town name as well - although I cannot read sufficient German to know whether I am actually using the site correctly.Many of the actual names on the postmarks are not identifiable. However a combination of other sources and sites has meant that I have managed to identify all the postmarks except 6. They are 5500,2724,5357. I trhink 5500 may be Trier,2724 contains "rotenburg", and 5357 ends ttal, but the name is too short for Wupperttal. 6700 ????? am Rhein 1 2963 Sudbrookmerland The last one although I have the full text completely defies all efforts to identify it. I suspect that the spelling has changed.Fallingrain has a Sudbruch and a Sudbrock. The former pronunciation is favourite I think. There is no Google for Sudbrook, Merland OR Sudbrookmerland. Any ideas Jan-Martin ( or anyone else ) Malcolm n Nov 27, 6:55 pm, Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote: malcolm wrote: ... am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. There is a conversion page athttp://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/menschen/ako/plz.html (note that it is not an official one!) that might help you matching old postcodes to new ones (as they were in 1994). Of course, there have been changes to post offices and to administrative districts in the meantime. Jan-Martin |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
Ryan
Thanks for your help. Would you believe that the only bit of the postmark missing on 2724 is the bit prior to the rotenburg.There is a bit after which says,I think,Wumm 1 - or possibly womm 1. I think I can narrow down the first bit by calculating the probable number of letters, using symmetry - however for the longer names abbreviation might be possible so this may not be conclusive. I think I might have to wait and see whether another postmark turns up. I know that people like close-clipped kiloware, but I sometimes wish that the pieces were not QUITE so close-clipped. I will have to add your web-sites to my postmark favourites. The great thing about help on this board is that sometimes the helpers approach the subject from different starting points,and you get a greater breadth of knowledge as a result. The original reply answered the majority of my questions, but I would never have thought of going via a postcard site,and this just fills in the gaps nicely. Very many thanks to you both. More questions may follow later. Malcolm Dec 5, 11:06*am, Ryan Davenport wrote: * * *I used to have an old German road atlas that had an index in the back ordered according to the old 4-digit postcodes. *In the late '90s, I happened to be overweight with my luggage so I left the thing behind, seeing as how it was getting obsolete (the change to 5-digit codes was made in 1993) and it was time for a new atlas anyway. *I wish I had that old atlas back again .... * * *Based on assorted Google searches combining the numbers with PLZ (abbreviation for Postleitzahl, the German word for postcode) I can find the following: 2724 can be Bötersen, Everinghausen, Ahausen, Stuckenborstel, Sottrum (Rotenburg is PLZ 2720, these towns are in Landkreis Rotenburg - probably lots of other small towns share that PLZ too) 2963 is Südbrookmerland (umlaut over the u, can be spelled Suedbrookmerland without using an umlaut) 5357 is Swisttal 5500 is Trier 6700 is Ludwigshafen am Rhein * * *Postcard collector sites are often organized by old PLZs - here's one I used. *Enter the PLZ under "Schnellsuche" and click "SUCHEN" http://www.ansichtskarten-center.de/webshop/index.php * * *Another one: http://www.briefmarkenfischer.de/ind...estdeutschland.... * * *Any lists of old PLZs I could find were generally very spotty, missing lots of numbers. *The biggest list I could find was this one: http://reichsmeldestelle.info/plz/a.html * * *Replace "a.html" with "b.html", "c.html", etc to do a labour-intensive search of the list, using Ctrl-F or whatever the menu shortcut for searching happens to be, according to the internet browser you are using. *West German PLZs have a W- prefix, East German PLZs have an O- prefix. * * *Ryan ----- malcolm wrote: Thanks again Jan-Martin. I have tried to use the site you mention. However I cannot find the new postcode by just using the old - I seem to have to have the town name as well - although I cannot read sufficient German to know whether I am actually using the site correctly.Many of the actual names on the postmarks are not identifiable. However a combination of other sources and sites has meant that I have managed to identify all the postmarks except 6. They are 5500,2724,5357. I trhink 5500 may be Trier,2724 contains *"rotenburg", and 5357 ends ttal, but the name is too short for Wupperttal. 6700 ????? am Rhein 1 2963 Sudbrookmerland The last one although I have the full text completely defies all efforts to identify it. I suspect that the spelling has changed.Fallingrain has a Sudbruch and a Sudbrock. The former pronunciation is favourite I think. There is no Google for Sudbrook, Merland *OR Sudbrookmerland. Any ideas Jan-Martin ( or anyone else ) Malcolm n Nov 27, 6:55 pm, Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote: malcolm wrote: ... am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. There is a conversion page athttp://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/menschen/ako/plz.html (note that it is not an official one!) that might help you matching old postcodes to new ones (as they were in 1994). Of course, there have been changes to post offices and to administrative districts in the meantime. Jan-Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
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Germany Briefzentrum/postcode correlation
malcolm schrieb:
Ryan Thanks for your help. Would you believe that the only bit of the postmark missing on 2724 is the bit prior to the rotenburg.There is a bit after which says,I think,Wumm 1 - or possibly womm 1. I think I can narrow down the first bit by calculating the probable number of letters, using symmetry - however for the longer names abbreviation might be possible so this may not be conclusive. I think I might have to wait and see whether another postmark turns up. I know that people like close-clipped kiloware, but I sometimes wish that the pieces were not QUITE so close-clipped. I will have to add your web-sites to my postmark favourites. The great thing about help on this board is that sometimes the helpers approach the subject from different starting points,and you get a greater breadth of knowledge as a result. The original reply answered the majority of my questions, but I would never have thought of going via a postcard site,and this just fills in the gaps nicely. Very many thanks to you both. More questions may follow later. Malcolm Dec 5, 11:06 am, Ryan Davenport wrote: I used to have an old German road atlas that had an index in the back ordered according to the old 4-digit postcodes. In the late '90s, I happened to be overweight with my luggage so I left the thing behind, seeing as how it was getting obsolete (the change to 5-digit codes was made in 1993) and it was time for a new atlas anyway. I wish I had that old atlas back again .... Based on assorted Google searches combining the numbers with PLZ (abbreviation for Postleitzahl, the German word for postcode) I can find the following: 2724 can be Bötersen, Everinghausen, Ahausen, Stuckenborstel, Sottrum (Rotenburg is PLZ 2720, these towns are in Landkreis Rotenburg - probably lots of other small towns share that PLZ too) 2963 is Südbrookmerland (umlaut over the u, can be spelled Suedbrookmerland without using an umlaut) 5357 is Swisttal 5500 is Trier 6700 is Ludwigshafen am Rhein Postcard collector sites are often organized by old PLZs - here's one I used. Enter the PLZ under "Schnellsuche" and click "SUCHEN" http://www.ansichtskarten-center.de/webshop/index.php Another one: http://www.briefmarkenfischer.de/ind...estdeutschland.... Any lists of old PLZs I could find were generally very spotty, missing lots of numbers. The biggest list I could find was this one: http://reichsmeldestelle.info/plz/a.html Replace "a.html" with "b.html", "c.html", etc to do a labour-intensive search of the list, using Ctrl-F or whatever the menu shortcut for searching happens to be, according to the internet browser you are using. West German PLZs have a W- prefix, East German PLZs have an O- prefix. Ryan ----- malcolm wrote: Thanks again Jan-Martin. I have tried to use the site you mention. However I cannot find the new postcode by just using the old - I seem to have to have the town name as well - although I cannot read sufficient German to know whether I am actually using the site correctly.Many of the actual names on the postmarks are not identifiable. However a combination of other sources and sites has meant that I have managed to identify all the postmarks except 6. They are 5500,2724,5357. I trhink 5500 may be Trier,2724 contains "rotenburg", and 5357 ends ttal, but the name is too short for Wupperttal. 6700 ????? am Rhein 1 2963 Sudbrookmerland The last one although I have the full text completely defies all efforts to identify it. I suspect that the spelling has changed.Fallingrain has a Sudbruch and a Sudbrock. The former pronunciation is favourite I think. There is no Google for Sudbrook, Merland OR Sudbrookmerland. Any ideas Jan-Martin ( or anyone else ) Malcolm n Nov 27, 6:55 pm, Jan-Martin Hertzsch wrote: malcolm wrote: ... am now starting to identify the 4-figure W.German postmarks ( the bulk of my collection ) for inclusion in the appropriate place. There is a conversion page athttp://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/menschen/ako/plz.html (note that it is not an official one!) that might help you matching old postcodes to new ones (as they were in 1994). Of course, there have been changes to post offices and to administrative districts in the meantime. Jan-Martin- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi You can find two towns named "Rotenburg" in Germany - one is named "Rotenburg ob der Tauber" and one "Rotenburg Wümme". Obviosly your postmark is "Rotenburg Wümme" postoffice 1. Peter -- |
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