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Red Book and Anthony Dollar oddity?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 21st 04, 04:42 AM
M. Scott Reynolds
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Default Red Book and Anthony Dollar oddity?

On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.
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  #2  
Old August 21st 04, 08:23 AM
Tom Kindschi
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On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:42:47 -0700, "M. Scott Reynolds"
wrote:

On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Good catch! I picked up a copy of the "Red Book" for the first time
in about 7 years since I saw it advertised somewhere as a "major
update". (It ain't. A few improved pictures, but my 1998 is still
good enough for me).

Anyway, I read through it, comparing it to 1998, and missed that
completely.

It sure looks like a Lincoln cent picture, (except for the color),
since you can see the slope of Abe's jacket to the left just as you
would expect for a cent. It appears they took some Lincoln pictures
and fiddled with the color! Odd.

Tom
  #3  
Old August 21st 04, 04:40 PM
SJCOHEN730
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Default

Subject: Red Book and Anthony Dollar oddity?
From: Tom Kindschi
Date: 8/21/2004 3:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:42:47 -0700, "M. Scott Reynolds"
wrote:

On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Good catch! I picked up a copy of the "Red Book" for the first time
in about 7 years since I saw it advertised somewhere as a "major
update". (It ain't. A few improved pictures, but my 1998 is still
good enough for me).

Anyway, I read through it, comparing it to 1998, and missed that
completely.

It sure looks like a Lincoln cent picture, (except for the color),
since you can see the slope of Abe's jacket to the left just as you
would expect for a cent. It appears they took some Lincoln pictures
and fiddled with the color! Odd.

Tom







My take on this is that it IS a picture of the Lincoln cents showing the type
1 & 2. It is intended for ALL denominations but they put it under the dollar
instead of showing it for every denomination. Steve
  #4  
Old August 21st 04, 07:17 PM
M. Scott Reynolds
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Posts: n/a
Default

Interesting. I only noticed because I just purchased an Intercept
Shield Album for Susan B. Anthony dollars and it has slots for both the
Type I and Type II 1979 and 1981 coins. I didn't know there was a Type
I and a Type II so I looked it up in the Red Book and was puzzled by the
pictures.

I also didn't know, until you mentioned it, that all the other
denominations also have a Type I and a Type II for 1979 and 1981.

I think that clears it up, they used pictures of the Lincoln cent and
tweaked the color to show the variations for the Anthony dollar. I
think that's a strange way to do it though.

Scott R.

SJCOHEN730 wrote:
Subject: Red Book and Anthony Dollar oddity?
From: Tom Kindschi
Date: 8/21/2004 3:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:42:47 -0700, "M. Scott Reynolds"
wrote:


On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Good catch! I picked up a copy of the "Red Book" for the first time
in about 7 years since I saw it advertised somewhere as a "major
update". (It ain't. A few improved pictures, but my 1998 is still
good enough for me).

Anyway, I read through it, comparing it to 1998, and missed that
completely.

It sure looks like a Lincoln cent picture, (except for the color),
since you can see the slope of Abe's jacket to the left just as you
would expect for a cent. It appears they took some Lincoln pictures
and fiddled with the color! Odd.

Tom








My take on this is that it IS a picture of the Lincoln cents showing the type
1 & 2. It is intended for ALL denominations but they put it under the dollar
instead of showing it for every denomination. Steve

  #5  
Old August 21st 04, 07:34 PM
Phil Barnhart
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Posts: n/a
Default

In (a weak) defense of Red Book, the Type 2 mint marks actually appear
on ALL proof coins of 79 and 81. Given the lack of SBA strike
rareties, the T2 mint mark seems to be collectible in SBAs. They are
rarer in SBAs than in the other proofs - but in fact what the red book
is illustrating the the "appearance" of the mint mark itself - wich
since it came from the same punch will be identical on all coins -
cents, nickels, quarters, halves, and SBAs.

In fact, if you are looking at raw proof sets for SBAs at a coin show
and scanning rapidly through a few sets, the easiest way to check
these sets is to compare the SBA mint mark to the the other coins in
the set. Most of the time, one of the other coins will have a T2 mark
as well - or the SBA mark will look different than all the rest.

In 1997, I went on a T2 kick so to speak, and probably looked at close
to 300 79 and 81 sets at about 10 shows. I found 9 SBA T2 sets - and
one was ENTIRELY T2 on all coins. Looking at SBAs by themselves it
can be difficult - but use the other coins in the set as reference.
BTW, I've never heard of a set that actually had the SBA as the only
T2 in the set - there was almost always one other in the set.



Tom Kindschi wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:42:47 -0700, "M. Scott Reynolds"
wrote:

On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Good catch! I picked up a copy of the "Red Book" for the first time
in about 7 years since I saw it advertised somewhere as a "major
update". (It ain't. A few improved pictures, but my 1998 is still
good enough for me).

Anyway, I read through it, comparing it to 1998, and missed that
completely.

It sure looks like a Lincoln cent picture, (except for the color),
since you can see the slope of Abe's jacket to the left just as you
would expect for a cent. It appears they took some Lincoln pictures
and fiddled with the color! Odd.

Tom

  #6  
Old August 21st 04, 11:54 PM
M. Scott Reynolds
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Yea (!), I've been looking at what it would "cost" me to fill those
holes in my Intercept Shield album and they start at $150 and go up from
there for the SBAs. I'm going to have to start saving up for them...

Scott R.


Phil Barnhart wrote:
In (a weak) defense of Red Book, the Type 2 mint marks actually appear
on ALL proof coins of 79 and 81. Given the lack of SBA strike
rareties, the T2 mint mark seems to be collectible in SBAs. They are
rarer in SBAs than in the other proofs - but in fact what the red book
is illustrating the the "appearance" of the mint mark itself - wich
since it came from the same punch will be identical on all coins -
cents, nickels, quarters, halves, and SBAs.

[...]
  #7  
Old August 22nd 04, 03:47 AM
dondi3
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"M. Scott Reynolds" wrote in message news:[email protected]
Yea (!), I've been looking at what it would "cost" me to fill those
holes in my Intercept Shield album and they start at $150 and go up from
there for the SBAs. I'm going to have to start saving up for them...

Scott R.


Phil Barnhart wrote:
In (a weak) defense of Red Book, the Type 2 mint marks actually appear
on ALL proof coins of 79 and 81. Given the lack of SBA strike
rareties, the T2 mint mark seems to be collectible in SBAs. They are
rarer in SBAs than in the other proofs - but in fact what the red book
is illustrating the the "appearance" of the mint mark itself - wich
since it came from the same punch will be identical on all coins -
cents, nickels, quarters, halves, and SBAs.

[...]


Having handled over 400 type II 1981 SBAs and several thousand of the
other denominations, I don't recall very many sets with just the SBA
type 2, but I have seen some, I know...just can't recall over half a
dozen or so. By the way, it is possible to carefully open and insert
type II coins to replace type I coins into these sets with minimal
damage to the seam in the case. That's the reason I do NOT recommend
paying a premium for complete 1981 sets...they're too easily
"manufactured".

Prosepective purchasers should also be aware that many dealers still
put up for sale type one SBAs and charge type 2 prices...many of them
do not know the difference since the Redbook for years erroneously
referred to the type II as the "clear S variety".

Currently, 1981 type 2 SBAs are around $220 and 1979s are $99.99
(special). Complete 1979 Type 2 gov't packaged sets are $115
(special, if you mention RCC). I also have all other denominations in
1979 & 1981, if anyone is interested. Above prices are delivered.

Dondi3
  #8  
Old August 22nd 04, 03:53 AM
dondi3
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"M. Scott Reynolds" wrote in message news:[email protected]
On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Not sure what you've got there. Page 199 of my 2004 redbook shows
gold 2 1/2 dollar coins, not SBAs. The SBAs of my hardcover edition
are on page 193.
Everything looks correct although the coloration is strange. The
hardcover must be different or perhaps upgraded from your edition...?

dondi3
  #9  
Old August 22nd 04, 04:02 AM
dondi3
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"M. Scott Reynolds" wrote in message news:[email protected]
On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.


Jeez, the more I look, the stranger it gets! Redbook lists the 1981 S
cent in type 2 but, once again, makes the old mistake of calling it a
"clear S"!!!
Then they fail to list it in the nickels, dimes quarters &
halfs...even though the halfs sell for $17-$22 for type 2s!!! I sell
around 100 of the 1981 JFK type 2s per year and I believe they're
included in JFK folders, now, too.

Took them 20+ years to correct the erroneous nomenclature for their
pictures and then they revert back to it in the text of the Lincoln
cent.

Dondi3
  #10  
Old August 22nd 04, 08:16 AM
M. Scott Reynolds
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Posts: n/a
Default

I've got the 2005 paperback edition of the Red Book. For the SBAs, it
has three pictures with captions of:

1) 1979S Filled S (Type I)
2) 1979S Clear S (Type II rounded), 1981S First S (Type I, rounded)
3) 1981S Clear S (Type II, flat)

The pictures look like they are black and whites of 1979 Lincoln cents,
not SBAs!

Something else to note is that the only place "Type I" and "Type II" is
mentioned is in the above captions. For the cent, nickel, dime,
quarter, and half listings, it just refers to the 1979s as "Filled S"
and "Clear S", with the cents being the only ones that have a 1981
"Filled S" and "Clear S". No pictures either.

Scott R.

dondi3 wrote:
"M. Scott Reynolds" wrote in message news:[email protected]

On page 199 of the 58th "Official Red Book", it has 3 pictures showing
the date of the 1979 S Type I, 1979 S Type II, and 1981 S Type II, and
the difference between the S mint mark. What is odd is that I've never
seen an SBA dollar with the date in the position in these pictures. The
pictures show the date off to the lower right above the shoulder with
the S mint mark right below the date, instead of the date at the bottom
right above the rim, and the mint mark above the left shoulder, like all
SBAs I've seen. Is there a version of the SBA that fits this
description? Or are they using pictures of another coin to show their
point, and if so, what coin is it (The only 1979 coins I've seen with
the date in that position is the Lincoln cent, but it's the wrong color!).

Anyone know what's going on here?

Scott R.



Not sure what you've got there. Page 199 of my 2004 redbook shows
gold 2 1/2 dollar coins, not SBAs. The SBAs of my hardcover edition
are on page 193.
Everything looks correct although the coloration is strange. The
hardcover must be different or perhaps upgraded from your edition...?

dondi3

 




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