Update on the envelope SAE, and an OT update too...

"A.Gent" wrote in message
u...

"Edward McGrath" wrote in message
...
Doesn't say much for a slabbing company that grades and slabs an
artificially toned SAE.


So, Ed, how would you define "artificially toned"?

Storage in an envelope couldn't be done completely innocently?
Were chemicals applied?
Was the coin rapidly - or "artificially" - heated?

Does *intent* count?

If Grandmaw slips a nice new SAE into an envelope and posts it off to her
favourite grandson for his birthday, is she wilfully and dishonestly
engaging
in artificial toning? If said grandson keeps the SAE in Gran's envelope,
is he
an accessory after the fact?

Picture two coins, side-by-side.
Grandson's innocently-toned birthday SAE, and Chrysta's
experimentally-stored-and-toned SAE. Identical to five decimal places.

How would/could NGC separate the intents?
Or should only blast-white coins be authenticated?


You're right, Jeff. Are collectors who store their coins in envelopes out
of preference that much different from those who place their coins in
envelopes because they anticipate the coins will develop toning? Is there
some kind of minimum time requirement that goes with "natural" toning?

Bruce

"Eric Faust" wrote in message
...

"Chrysta Wilson" wrote in message
ews.com...
Hi! Long time no post. Probably only like 6 people here even remember me
now. You may recall the story of my envelope-toned SAE:

http://chrystawilson.com/saeexp2.html

Well, Jason Craton sent it off to PCGS for me, and it seems they liked
it fine. It graded MS 68...quite acceptable. (Sales of envelopes
expected to skyrocket nationwide!)

Also, we went for an ultrasound today, and it seems that the
determination of the graders there was a probable MS70 (everything
looking healthy) and probably of the pink persuasion...

http://chrystawilson.com/baby.html

So happy news all around!


Is it my imagination, or is there a thumb sucking in progress there?

We had our baby (boy) on July 30th. Somehow that hasn't prevented me from
spending money on coins, though. Even as a new parent one still finds time
for the important things in life.

Eric

Eric, were you aware of the legend that if you place a $20 gold piece (raw)
in a baby boy's diaper and leave it there for one week, the child will have
good luck and the gold piece will tone?

Bruce

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:rVr1d.144$Ss2.63@lakeread07...

"A.Gent" wrote in message
u...
...

How would/could NGC separate the intents?
Or should only blast-white coins be authenticated?


You're right, Jeff. Are collectors who store their coins in envelopes out
of preference that much different from those who place their coins in
envelopes because they anticipate the coins will develop toning? Is there
some kind of minimum time requirement that goes with "natural" toning?

Bruce


Indeed.
And how could NGC/PCGS determine the time taken, given a random toned coin to
grade?

Plainly toning shouldn't enter into the equation at all - unless the
lustre/surface has been demonstrably damaged by AT.

Its a market thing, I guess.

--
Jeff R.

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:YYr1d.145$Ss2.78@lakeread07...
Eric, were you aware of the legend that if you place a $20 gold piece
(raw)
in a baby boy's diaper and leave it there for one week, the child will
have
good luck and the gold piece will tone?

Ack! Well, he certainly could be considered lucky if his dad could afford to
use a St. Gaudens as a Pampers token.

Eric
'high relief'

"Eric Faust" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:YYr1d.145$Ss2.78@lakeread07...
Eric, were you aware of the legend that if you place a $20 gold piece
(raw)
in a baby boy's diaper and leave it there for one week, the child will
have
good luck and the gold piece will tone?

Ack! Well, he certainly could be considered lucky if his dad could afford
to
use a St. Gaudens as a Pampers token.

Eric
'high relief'


Interesting how a thread about having a baby turns to toning gold coins in
their diapers.

Dave
eewwwwwwwww

--
emails to (myuserid).at.lycos.com

Tir nam Beann, nan Gleann, s'nan Gaisgeach - Saor Alba A-Nis!



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A.Gent wrote: So, Ed, how would you define "artificially toned"? snip
I always thought of an artificially toned coin as being intentionally
created through such means as chemical, baking or placing a coin in an
environment that will create rapid toning. I believe if you own a coin
you have the right to do anything you want with it including experiments
but it's another thing to have the coin slabbed. The thing that makes no
sense is, if you submit a blast white whizzed coin to a professional
grading service they will body bag that coin but if you send in a coin
that you toned rapidly and on purpose they will grade it and slab that
coin, it doesn't seem right to me. I always thought of natural toning as
a coin that was placed in a coin album many, many years ago to protect
and preserve the coin and toning had occurred naturally and unexpectedly
as a result and that was the reason toned coins sold for a premium over
blast white coins because it took many years to tone. I believed if a
toned coin was slabbed by one of the top two grading companies it was
guaranteed to be a naturally toned coin, I thought the graders could
tell the difference. Ed

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message
...
Interesting how a thread about having a baby turns to toning gold coins in
their diapers.

Dave
eewwwwwwwww

Hey, nobody ever said RCC was for people with weak stomachs.

Eric

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message
...


"Eric Faust" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:YYr1d.145$Ss2.78@lakeread07...
Eric, were you aware of the legend that if you place a $20 gold piece
(raw)
in a baby boy's diaper and leave it there for one week, the child will
have
good luck and the gold piece will tone?

Ack! Well, he certainly could be considered lucky if his dad could
afford
to
use a St. Gaudens as a Pampers token.

Eric
'high relief'


Interesting how a thread about having a baby turns to toning gold coins in
their diapers.

Dave
eewwwwwwwww

--

Well it seemed like a natural piece of advice to me. Of course if you
insist on using a silver dollar instead, there's no guarantee of good luck
or that you'll like the toning. As far as copper coins, the toning will be
difficult to discern.

Bruce

Yeah Eric, there can be a lot of baby excrement around here at times.

Dave
"Sad, but true"

--
emails to (myuserid).at.lycos.com

Tir nam Beann, nan Gleann, s'nan Gaisgeach - Saor Alba A-Nis!
"Eric Faust" wrote in message
m...

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message
...
Interesting how a thread about having a baby turns to toning gold coins
in
their diapers.

Dave
eewwwwwwwww

Hey, nobody ever said RCC was for people with weak stomachs.

Eric




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Edward McGrath" wrote in message
...
A.Gent wrote: So, Ed, how would you define "artificially toned"? snip
I always thought of an artificially toned coin as being intentionally
created through such means as chemical, baking or placing a coin in an
environment that will create rapid toning.

Fine.
Is Chrysta's SAE AT?
Would it be AT if she had just innocently *stored* the coin in the envelope?

Does intent count?

I believe if you own a coin
you have the right to do anything you want with it including experiments
but it's another thing to have the coin slabbed. The thing that makes no
sense is, if you submit a blast white whizzed coin to a professional
grading service they will body bag that coin

As they should. Different case entirely.
Whizzing does terrible things to a coin's surface.

...but if you send in a coin
that you toned rapidly and on purpose they will grade it and slab that
coin, it doesn't seem right to me.

Why?
AT doesn't necessarily damage a coin at all. (It *might* - and dipping to
remove it might damage the lustre - but it doesn't *have* to.)


I always thought of natural toning as
a coin that was placed in a coin album many, many years ago to protect
and preserve the coin and toning had occurred naturally and unexpectedly
as a result and that was the reason toned coins sold for a premium over
blast white coins because it took many years to tone.

Most people know that most albums will tone coins over time. Therefore, if I
keep my coins in an album, am I artificially toning them?

...I believed if a
toned coin was slabbed by one of the top two grading companies it was
guaranteed to be a naturally toned coin, I thought the graders could
tell the difference. Ed

How, Ed?
How could they differentiate?
Nasty AT (e.g. "tonedcoins" on ebay) is easy to spot, but Chrysta's SAE sure
looks legit to me (I'm no toning expert). How can a coin grader tell what a
person was thinking when they placed a coin in an envelope?

"(1): Hmmmmm. He meant to tone this coin. Bodybagged."
"(2): Well, he didn't know this envelope would tone the coin. MS68."

The grader is certifying the condition of the coin *under* the toning.
The colour is evident, and has no effect on the numerical grade.
Maybe it will affect - what's that handy expression? - its "glomworthyness",
or eye appeal, but it makes no difference to its grade.

Of course, YMMV.

--
Jeff R.