2010: The End of the Cent?

Hey,

I was talking with Daniel Carr (the creator of U.S. $1 and $2 coin
prototypes) about my coin and currency issues, and here's what he had
to say:

He feels that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be NO one cent
coins issued after 2009, as there has been no disussion for what to do
with the cent, in terms of design, for 2010 and beyond.

(Fred, what do you think about this prediction?)

He also thinks that a $2 coin is more likely than a redesigned $2
bill, but not by much.

He also said that, even with that positive wording on the
Congressional testimony I showed him, he thinks that the odds of the
U.S. issuing any denomination higher than $100 is less than a 50/50/
chence.

And finally, he said:

Elimination of $1 and $2 bills and replacement by coins (for general
use) may happen when and if
the government-owned US Treasury (US Mint) and the corporate-owned
Federal Reserve become
one and the same. Either the Federal Reserve must take over the US
Mint, or the US Government
must take back money issuing authority from the Federal Reserve. I
hope it will be the latter.
I don't think much of anything will happen until that issue is
resolved.

Fred,

What do you think of these statements? Are they anything related to
the "secret plan"?

Dan thinks I should concintrate on getting all paper money below $10
elminated, and replaced by coins, but I may end up trying to get a
sketch of a redesigned $2 bill to send to the Treasury, BEP, and Coin
World. Even though Fred thinks I'd be viewed as a nutcase for
submitting an idea. Nevermind the countless ammount of people sending
in their dollar coin suggestions before the Sac GD was made.

wrote:

He feels that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be NO one cent
coins issued after 2009, as there has been no disussion for what to do
with the cent, in terms of design, for 2010 and beyond.

Probably because Congress has had other things on its mind. Look how
long it took to get over the Senate hold and pass the Territorial
Quarters program. It was so late that two of the designs, Puerto Rico
and American Samoa, are still not finalized.

I have no doubt that the Illinois delegation will come up with something
in the New Year. After all, the Virginia delegation made sure the
Nickel came back with Monticello on the reverse.


He also thinks that a $2 coin is more likely than a redesigned $2
bill, but not by much.

That probably makes sense. I do like the paper but having just come
back from one of my annual trip to Toronto, I have to admit those $1 and
$2 coins last a long time. I still receive 1986 dated Loonies and 1996
dated Twonies (first years of issue) in change. How many $1 dollar
bills from the 1980's do you still find in circulation?

Still as you pointed out, until the Federal Reserve Bank and U.S. Mint
are merged or the Fed is willing to give up the $1 and $2 monetary
instruments, it will be the same old story.

Roßert G. Schaffrath wrote:
wrote:

He feels that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be NO one cent
coins issued after 2009, as there has been no disussion for what to do
with the cent, in terms of design, for 2010 and beyond.

Probably because Congress has had other things on its mind. Look how
long it took to get over the Senate hold and pass the Territorial
Quarters program. It was so late that two of the designs, Puerto Rico
and American Samoa, are still not finalized.

I hope that PR uses that design with the Fort's parapet - that one is SWEET!

I have no doubt that the Illinois delegation will come up with something
in the New Year. After all, the Virginia delegation made sure the
Nickel came back with Monticello on the reverse.


He also thinks that a $2 coin is more likely than a redesigned $2
bill, but not by much.

I also agree that a $2 coin would work well in the USA and would not mind
seeing a $5 coin, too. Like in the rest of the World, make the coins, drop
the banknotes and all will be well.

That probably makes sense. I do like the paper but having just come
back from one of my annual trip to Toronto, I have to admit those $1 and
$2 coins last a long time. I still receive 1986 dated Loonies and 1996
dated Twonies (first years of issue) in change. How many $1 dollar
bills from the 1980's do you still find in circulation?

1986? What part of Canada did you visit? hehehehehehehe

(Loonies were turned loose upon the World in 1987)

Still as you pointed out, until the Federal Reserve Bank and U.S. Mint
are merged or the Fed is willing to give up the $1 and $2 monetary
instruments, it will be the same old story.

Or at least get some unnamed Congresscritters from an unnamed northeastern
state out of the way!

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

In article ,
wrote:
Hey,

I was talking with Daniel Carr (the creator of U.S. $1 and $2 coin
prototypes) about my coin and currency issues, and here's what he had

Is there a picture of the $2 coin prototype online anywhere?

--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |

On Dec 6, 12:39�pm, (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
In article ,

wrote:
Hey,

I was talking with Daniel Carr (the creator of U.S. $1 and $2 coin
prototypes) �about my coin and currency issues, and here's what he had

Is there a picture of the $2 coin prototype online anywhere?

He did a bi-metallic version of his astronaut dollar as a $2
prototype.

http://www.dc-coin.com/index.asp?Pag...ATS&Category=1

Let the whole page load....the last three are the $2 prototype.

In article ,
Michael G. Koerner wrote:

I also agree that a $2 coin would work well in the USA and would not mind
seeing a $5 coin, too. Like in the rest of the World, make the coins, drop
the banknotes and all will be well.

Has anyone ever tried to determine, either mathematically or in practice,
the optimum distribution of denominations? The denominations currently
in common use in the US a

$0.01, $0.05, $0.10, $0.25, $1, $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100

I am deliberately leaving out the $0.50 and $2.00 because sales clerks
give you funny looks when you try to spend them, and no one seems to
be inconvenienced by their absence.

No one seems to mind a ratio of 5 between the dollar bill/coin and the
five-spot, or between the penny and the nickel, nor a ratio of 4
between the quarter and the dollar. Even the $10 gets less use than
the $20, and $50's are pretty rare, thanks to ATMs. Do we really need
coins or bills that are merely twice or 2.5 times the value of another
coin or bill? It seems to me that a more efficient system of
denominations would go:

$0.05, $0.25, $1, $5, $20, $100, $500

(I predict that inflation will make the penny absurd and the $500 bill
necessary.)

Fewer denominations means that each will get full use, yet you never
have to receive more than four of any denomination in change.

--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |

"Paul Ciszek" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Michael G. Koerner wrote:

I also agree that a $2 coin would work well in the USA and would not mind
seeing a $5 coin, too. Like in the rest of the World, make the coins,
drop
the banknotes and all will be well.

Has anyone ever tried to determine, either mathematically or in practice,
the optimum distribution of denominations? The denominations currently
in common use in the US a

$0.01, $0.05, $0.10, $0.25, $1, $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100

I am deliberately leaving out the $0.50 and $2.00 because sales clerks
give you funny looks when you try to spend them, and no one seems to
be inconvenienced by their absence.

Some here go out of their way to obtain and spend them, just to see the
reaction by the young or recent immigrant clerks.


No one seems to mind a ratio of 5 between the dollar bill/coin and the
five-spot, or between the penny and the nickel, nor a ratio of 4
between the quarter and the dollar. Even the $10 gets less use than
the $20, and $50's are pretty rare, thanks to ATMs. Do we really need
coins or bills that are merely twice or 2.5 times the value of another
coin or bill? It seems to me that a more efficient system of
denominations would go:

$0.05, $0.25, $1, $5, $20, $100, $500

I doubt most consumers think in term of "ratios". When paying cash they
simply spend what they happen to have handy. When paying for a big ticket
item, they usually avoid cash altogether.


(I predict that inflation will make the penny absurd and the $500 bill
necessary.)

Under what circumstances would you expect significant numbers of people to
pay for purchases with a $500 bill instead of a credit/debit card, personal
check, PayPal, etc.? If you were a merchant, would you like to wipe out
your change drawer by accepting a $500 bill for a $278 purchase, considering
that most nowadays don't keep bills larger than a $10 in the till?


Fewer denominations means that each will get full use, yet you never
have to receive more than four of any denomination in change.

I never get more than four coin denominations in change now. Penny, nickel,
dime, and quarter. You'd need a massive list of signatures to ever convince
Congress that the population believes your concept is more efficient and
what we have now should be changed.

wrote in message
...

Hey,

He feels that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be NO one cent
coins issued after 2009, as there has been no disussion for what to do
with the cent, in terms of design, for 2010 and beyond.



Hello

The penny will be around after 2009. See links and
remarks below from the U.S. Mint and "PRESIDENTIAL
$1 COIN ACT OF 2005" / Public Law 109-145.

-----------------------------------------------

FROM:
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/lincolnRedesign/

--- snip ---

At the conclusion of the 2009 Lincoln Bicentennial
One-Cent Program, the 2010 (and beyond) one-cent
coin will feature a reverse design that will be
emblematic of President Lincoln's preservation of
the United States of America as a single and
united country.

--- snip ---

FROM:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...:pub l145.109

The design on the reverse of the 1-cent coins issued after December
31, 2009, shall bear an image emblematic of President Lincoln's
preservation of the United States of America as a single and united
country.

Approved December 22, 2005.

In article
,
wrote:

Hey,

I was talking with Daniel Carr (the creator of U.S. $1 and $2 coin
prototypes) about my coin and currency issues, and here's what he had
to say:

He feels that there is a 50/50 chance that there will be NO one cent
coins issued after 2009, as there has been no disussion for what to do
with the cent, in terms of design, for 2010 and beyond.

(Fred, what do you think about this prediction?)

For whatever it's worth, my opinion is that they may still coin cents
after 2009, but include them only in mint sets and maybe sold in bags &
rolls off the Web site. Just like halves, really. They stay an
"official" part of the monetary system, but aren't encountered in
real-life commerce, & their online selling premiums makes the negative
seignorage a nonissue.

He also thinks that a $2 coin is more likely than a redesigned $2
bill, but not by much.

He also said that, even with that positive wording on the
Congressional testimony I showed him, he thinks that the odds of the
U.S. issuing any denomination higher than $100 is less than a 50/50/
chance.

I agree that it's not particularly likely. While our inflation rate
has been enough, over the past 7 decades, to makes all our coinage
nearly trivial in value, it's been gradual enough that people don't
readily notice. If we were in a situation where prices doubled every
year for a few decades, then we would've been seeing
higher-denomination coins & notes come about over time. As it is,
we're only just now deciding to let go of the cent, & things like
credit cards are filling in for anything bigger than the $100.

And finally, he said:

Elimination of $1 and $2 bills and replacement by coins (for general
use) may happen when and if the government-owned US Treasury (US Mint) and the corporate-owned
Federal Reserve become one and the same. Either the Federal Reserve must take over the US
Mint, or the US Government must take back money issuing authority from the Federal Reserve. I
hope it will be the latter. I don't think much of anything will happen until that issue is
resolved.

What is his reasoning for this? Most of the "money" the Federal
Reserve works with is simply so many computer entries in databases &
never even gets put on paper. I also tend to doubt that the total
volume of $1s & $2s outstanding forms even 10% of the total "money" the
Fed works with; I don't think they'll lose sleep if it's decided to
turn everything below a $10 into coinage.

Fred,

What do you think of these statements? Are they anything related to
the "secret plan"?

I'm curious about this plan...

On Dec 6, 1:35*pm, Phil DeMayo wrote:
On Dec 6, 12:39 pm, (Paul Ciszek) wrote:

In article ,

wrote:
Hey,

I was talking with Daniel Carr (the creator of U.S. $1 and $2 coin
prototypes) about my coin and currency issues, and here's what he had

Is there a picture of the $2 coin prototype online anywhere?

He did a bi-metallic version of his astronaut dollar as a $2
prototype.

http://www.dc-coin.com/index.asp?Pag...ATS&Category=1

Let the whole page load....the last three are the $2 prototype.

Those aren't Dan's only prototypes of $2 coins. I've seen that he also
made them as a silver ring around a gold center, just like the
Canadian $2 coin. Its still the same astronaut design, though. The
only difference is, the colors of the metals are reversed. I think the
gold ring around the silver prototype would be best for a $5 coin, and
I believe that that is exactly how Canada will do their $5 coin
(golden ring around a silver center, reverse of the $2 coin) if they
issue a coin to replace their $5 bill, as they talk about, from time
to time.

Ahh..Here they a

http://www.designscomputed.com/coins/astro.html

The one on the left is perfect for a U.S. $5 coin prototype, and the
one on the right is perfect for a U.S. $2 coin prototype.