"Purple is the new Red"

Her Orangeness said:

So, red ink made you "normal"?!
QUICK!! get orange!


satrap

I shall go get my Core with it's lovely Orange Crush. Though I think
"normal" is really stretching it.

"so what" wrote in message
ups.com...
john cline deuce, your black ink is showing! Imagine, getting the
illustrious, the erudite, the short, Dr. I confused with Come In, the
Barbarian! sic him, KCat!

hm... I don't think I should go there.

satrap
whose personality test showed that she is the quiet, reserved type
(calling Dr. Tim!)

what personality test was that?! Is it any surprise that the tests I've
taken put me in something like only 13% of the population?

KCat - just another normal kitty.

Joshua C Sasmor wrote:
[...] Too often in college engineering classes the onus of
actually
learning anything fell 75% to the student's own reading, and
homework.
Always thought it must be because someone's demanding that more be
learned than can actually be taught in the class time provided.
Absolutely
You agree...?
Yes.... Something worth learning correctly is worth
whatever you are willing to put into it.

Not quite what I meant. I wanted to learn the stuff (an EE's
knowledge) and was annoyed that so much stuff was "required" for that
sheepskin that it was more than could be taught in 8-10 solid
semesters.

Trying to fit extra into the curriculum always sounds good to the board
and the employers in terms of "rigor", but only so much can be taught
each class without something being compromised. Leaving the slower
students behind is the first to go. I am an excellent student so I
kept up, but kept feeling that but for a little extra intellect it
could be me getting bad grades despite honest effort, because the
professor didn't have time to teach the whole class (and/or had too big
a class).

That it was acknowledged that classes were deliberately set up to fail
X% of students, as "weed-out" courses, offended me in two ways. One,
it made me anxious about my own chances, and two it seemed patently
unfair, wrong, and improper to deliberately go about teaching in a way
that you KNOW will fail to reach all your students. I believe class is
for learning, not sorting, and I don't like the way education and
certification have become confused together in universities.

No, I'm not sure what a better way of crushing the hopes of students
is. No doubt a purely random lottery would have been to my
disadvantage, and not admitting me to the college in the first place
based on predictions of my success from SATs doesn't appeal to me
either. I'd like anyone who wants a degree, and works for it, to be
able to get one, and to receive support and encouragement the whole way
there.

If you can manage to learn calculus just by sitting and listening to
me explain it,
then I applaud your ability! I had to spend hours practicing

I'm good, but I'm not that good. No, it took me 30-60 minutes of
practice per hour of coursework. I usually did all the problems and
reading, and always at least half.

I would wager that I spent 4 hours outside of class for
every hour inside class - that's the way to learn!
It's a way to learn but it's essentially self-teaching and I think
means the teacher is failing (perhaps because of time limits) to
"give
them the tools they need (to succeed)". I mean, a textbook and set
of
questions are tools, but not ones anyone requires a teacher to
obtain.

This is true - but a book is written by someone who already knows
the material - I have...relied on a textbook as a reference, never as
more than a guide for my own understanding.

I think we agree here. A book and excercises are useful tools, but the
point of attending a class is to have a teacher add to and use those
tools, and tailor them to the students.

I'd rather that the 30-60 minutes per class spent
practicing were done _in_ class, with a teacher available for help,
and
such that after the class was done I could return my mind to other
purposes with a clear conscience.
Let's suppose that the calculus class was run that way. I come in on

the first day of class and spend 10-20 minutes (out of 50)

Well, there you go, I didn't mean that practice should replace lecture,
but that I'd rather additional class time be either available or
required, and the practice take place in that time. My college did
offer some optional study sessions with a grad student available for
questions, but only before major exams.

The class time is for discussion of methods, pointing out common
errors, group discussion and commentary.

Add examples and yes, those are I think the bare requirements for a
good class.

I would wager that I spent 4 hours outside of
class for every hour inside class
If that's to be required, nay, expected, then you sure can't tell it
from the scheduling of the classes and 16-hour semesters.
First of all, my graduate school load was ...9 hours.
So I spent approximately 36 hours a week on my coursework
outside of class.... So 9 hours a day on school made it my full time
job.
I fail to see the problem with this - I was a full-time student.

I think 40 hour work weeks are a bit much, personally, and would like
to have seen some of our productivity gains go into making a 35 hour
week...but that's another topic.

Sounds like grad school needs more out-of-class work, and compensates
for it. I took 12 hour semesters for undergrad, maybe I'd have done 6
for grad. (Naturally, some iceholes kept trying to change the
requirements to force 16 hour semesters. May they roast for
eternity.).

2 days, no, but an hour a day, three days a week, for 16 weeks? I'd
expect to know a hell of a lot about walkin' the dog after that
thorough a course in yoyos even with no homework.
Actually, after 5 years of yoyo work, I'm still not as good as the
current worlds champion

Oh my heart bleeds for you... grin I can't even get the damn thing
to come back up the string the FIRST time.

To come back to the original comment that got all this started, I
still
use Waterman Red in a Lamy Vista (the clear version of the Safari) to
grade all of my papers - no one's been too damaged yet...

That's a pinkish red, or orangeish...mercurochrome like, if I recall.
Don't switch to Noodler's Red, you'll destroy them all in a flash.

My bottle arrived, and it dries quick and feathers not. Makes the M
nib on the red Rotring Freeway more usable than it was with inks that
spread more. I'm quite pleased.

However, I thought I saw a Cross Century Classic fountain pen in the
luster blue (or blue satin?) finish at a local office store. I went by
all my usual haunts and I think it must have been an Office Max, but it
isn't there any more. S'OK, I didn't need to buy another pen.

Renard DellaFave wrote:

I wanted to learn the stuff (an EE's
knowledge) and was annoyed that so much stuff was "required" for that
sheepskin that it was more than could be taught in 8-10 solid
semesters.

The problem is that almost any school is not enough to train someone
for a particular job. This is especially true in EE (my father is
an EE/BiomedE - made pacemakers for Cordis for years...) and this is
why you need on-the-job training. A curriculum is to prepare you for
this; even the "required" stuff isn't just vocational training. Did
you go to a big state school? They're notorious for including lost
of fertilizer in the "general education" section of any degree. The
smaller liberal arts school where I teach now has an entire set of
courses which have _nothing_ to do with your major, but they're the
"Liberal Arts Core" courses. I like to think of them as the broccoli
of the school - you may not like it, but it's good for you



That it was acknowledged that classes were deliberately set up to fail
X% of students, as "weed-out" courses, offended me in two ways.

"Weed-out" courses are EVIL! I was a physics major until I was weeded
out in my electricity and magnetism course. The goal of failing X% is
a disaster.


I believe class is for learning, not sorting, and I don't like the
way education and certification have become confused together in
universities.

The only way to determine if learning has happened is to examine the
students and certify that they meet the teacher's standards of
proficiency in that subject.

I'd like anyone who wants a degree, and works for it, to be
able to get one, and to receive support and encouragement the
whole way there.

Here I agree wholeheartedly! We (and I speak of the "educational
establishment") must support anyone who wants to learn. The problem
comes when someone who wants to learn a subject cannot do so in the
structured, mass-marketed, lecture-and-recitation driven, regimented
class structure of a univeristy. Perhaps these people are better
suited for other paths to education (individual tutors, fewer courses
at a time, more years to get the degree, etcetera)

[snip]

Well, there you go, I didn't mean that practice should replace lecture,
but that I'd rather additional class time be either available or
required, and the practice take place in that time. My college did
offer some optional study sessions with a grad student available for
questions, but only before major exams.

Perhaps the best thing is to make a 3 credit course meet for 6 hours,
and just make the "practice" time part of the classroom experience.
This would make the students fit the time into their schedule and would
allow for the extra time. The main debate here is a "credit hour" -
this usually means a 50 minute time block (except for lab courses).
There's a big debate in educational policy to remove this definition from
the catalog. I would be in favor of this.

[snip]

Oh my heart bleeds for you... grin I can't even get the damn [yoyo]
to come back up the string the FIRST time.

Start with a yoyo with a clutch in it (a cetrifugal pressure system that
automatically rewinds the string) like a "Brain" by Yomega... They come
right back.

[Waterman Red is] a pinkish red, or orangeish...mercurochrome like,
if I recall. Don't switch to Noodler's Red, you'll destroy them all
in a flash.

evil Really? \evil My next bottle of red is Levenger's Cardinal Red,
the Waterman will just last out this semester. I hope to find that
"mind-breaking" red eventually...

Joshua Sasmor
************************************************** ***********************
Joshua C. Sasmor - Pipe-smoker, teacher and mathematician
Home page: http://www.math.pitt.edu/~jcsst18/
************************************************** ***********************
Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth but supreme beauty.
- BERTRAND RUSSELL
************************************************** ***********************

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:07:41 +0000 (UTC),
(Joshua C Sasmor) wrote:

In article .com,
Renard DellaFave wrote:
You can't force a student to succeed, but you can give them the tools
they
need -- that's called teaching.

Joshua C. Sasmor

************************************************* ************************
Joshua C. Sasmor - Pipe-smoker, teacher and mathematician
Home page: http://www.math.pitt.edu/~jcsst18/
************************************************* ************************
Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth but supreme beauty.
- BERTRAND RUSSELL
************************************************* ************************

It is nice to see some people in academia support out troops.

"Renard DellaFave" wrote in message
ups.com...


Where the deuce do you find a purple 2-pack of G2s? .5 or .7?
What's the date code on the refill?

Staples. Actually www.Staples.com

It was 0.5 (thinner version).

-s

Hi Renard, I could not find the date code on the refill. Actually if I look
at the refill it says "G2-7" so maybe I mistaken and it is 0.7mm. It is
definitely not as smooth as the black one. The color is too reddish.
Parker G
Gel purple is much much better.

Has anyone tried the G-2 blue? Is it nice and smooth?

-s



"Renard DellaFave" wrote in message
oups.com...

Surinder - I have a .7mm G2 purple that's not close to red and as
smooth as the other G2-07 refills. Date code is 00·11. You'd
probably prefer the P-700 purple which is much darker. Me, I'd like a
P-500 purple but, nope, none such.

Staples only lists the 12-pack, and want $8 to ship it.

The date code is the last 4 digits printed on the refill.

Probably the best purple gel is Parker. Unfortunately their red gel is
not red, it's a reddish black.

"Renard DellaFave" wrote in message
oups.com...


Staples only lists the 12-pack, and want $8 to ship it.

They must have changed it then. I got a two-refill pack and they shipped it
free. Shipping, I am sure can change.


Probably the best purple gel is Parker.

No doubt about that. Parker Gel in Purple, if it writes, is pen heaven.

-s