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Getting started with ancient coins - periodic post
There's been some mostly interesting and useful talk here recently
about ancient coins, so I thought I'd post this again. What follows is a distillation of many people's opinions and observations, including my own. Additions and corrections are welcomed. This document is copyrighted -- please don't republish elsewhere. HMTL version available he http://rg.ancients.info/guide. Getting started with ancient coins - periodic post People who collect ancient coins, for the most part, start out as collectors of modern coins. They move on because they find ancients more compelling. In the minds of those who collect ancients, for one thing, there's more history. An early U.S. coin may have been touched by Washington or Jefferson, but an ancient coin may have been touched by Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle, whose thinking formed the very basis of Western civilization. There's also more beauty, particularly with the coins of ancient Greece. U.S. coins often considered the most attractive, Saints, Walkers, and Standing Libs, for instance, imitate the timeless designs of ancient coins. Despite their history and beauty, ancient coins are typically not more costly than modern coins but less. A Maximian follis is a bronze coin just about exactly the same size and weight as a U.S. large cent. But this 1,800-year-old Roman coin in extra fine condition typically costs just $25, about half of what a common-date large cent costs in the same condition. The reason for pricing like this is supply and demand. On the supply side, billions of ancient Greek and Roman coins were minted over more than a millennium, and unlike with modern coins, availability increases as numerous ancient coins are dug up from the ground each year in source countries such as Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Turkey, and Israel. On the demand side, there are fewer collectors of ancient coins than modern coins. In a nutshell, though modern coins have their considerable attractions, you can't beat ancient coins for their awe/cost ratio, at least according to ancient coin collectors. But ancient coins can be intimidating, at first. They almost demand that you be a numismatist, that you study and learn. There are no albums you can buy and fill with neat, orderly acquisitions. Similar looking coins can be minted in entirely different countries. Counterfeits are a reality, greater than with modern coins because ancient coins were struck by hand and are much more varied in style, thus easier to fake. Because of all this, the maxim "Read the book before you buy the coin" applies even more to ancient coins than to modern ones. But today, you can surf the Net first, to dip your toe in the water. Then, if you're still drawn to these magical totems from times long gone, you can dive in further. Here's one way to go: 1. Read these Web sites Out of their love for ancient coins and as a service to others, a number of ancient coin collectors have put up informational Web sites, usually lavishly illustrated with coin images. A number of dealers include useful instructional information at their Web sites as well. Brad's Introduction to Ancient Coins http://www.blarg.net/~brad/coins.htm This site deals mostly with Roman coins, but this is where a lot of people get started, as ancient Roman coins are on average are about one-third the cost of ancient Greek coins. You can read about buying and storing, identifying and attributing, grading, and fakes. Doug Smith's Ancient Greek & Roman Coins http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dougsmit This is the most comprehensive collector site about ancient coins on the Web. Doug has written and illustrated more than 100 pages of information, including pages on coins of various Roman emperors and Greek city-states, coins of the "barbarians," judging the attractiveness of ancient coin styles, ancient coin glossaries, plated and countermarked coins, coin photography, and stereo microscopes. Warren Esty's Ancient Roman and Greek Coins http://esty.ancients.info You'll find good advice here about buying and selling ancient coins, various collecting strategies, women on ancient coins, grading, and fakes. Dennis Rider's Ancient Cash http://www.ancientcash.com Using a clever image map of a real map of the ancient world, you navigate to Rome, Greece, Macedonia, Asia Minor, Egypt, and elsewhere. Once there, you see and read about examples of the coins that were minted in these locales, and you also read background historical information about the places themselves. Tom Buggey's Ancient Coins: In Praise of the Celators http://www.people.memphis.edu/~tjbuggey/coin.html Here you'll find a complete list of Roman emperors, a list of Roman mints and mint marks, a list of Roman coin denominations, common abbreviations, maps of ancient Rome and Greece, astronomical symbols on ancient coins, nominations for the most beautiful ancient coins, and tips for new collectors with a limited coin budget. The Money Museum http://www.moneymuseum.com/index_english.html An offering from Germany with an English version, this site has lots of information about money in general, including coins. There's material about ancient, medieval, and modern coins, coin production, how the eagle got on coins, lions on coins, women on coins, and more. Bearers of Meaning http://www.lawrence.edu/dept/art/bue.../contents.html This scholarly site hasn't been added to in a while, but the information is still useful. You'll find essays about ancient coin production, portraiture, and other subjects as well as a catalog of ancient coins with detailed descriptions. Barry & Darling Ancient Coins http://www.bitsofhistory.com/index_info.html One of the best ancient coin informational sites from a dealer, this site provides a plethora of information covering coin hoards, cleaning ancient coins, spotting counterfeits, the origins of ancient coins, deciphering Roman inscriptions, and ancient mythology. Harlan J. Berk http://www.harlanjberk.com/departmen...s/articles.htm You'll find a number of articles here from a well-respected ancient coin numismatist and dealer. Along with articles about specific coins, there's also a suggested catalog of your first 25 Greek gold and electrum coins and your first 25 Greek silver coins. Pegasi Online http://www.pegasionline.com/html/archives.cfm You'll find a whopping 127 articles here about various topics related to ancient coins, though most are short, introductory pieces. Most of the articles describe the history and numismatic output of various regions of the ancient world. Ancient Impressions http://aicoins.tripod.com/ai Here you'll find common Roman coin inscriptions and terms, a list of Roman emperors, a list of women on Roman coins, imperial titles, and gods and goddesses on Roman coins. Indo-European Chronology http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/chron/chron.html Here's a site about history, not about coins, but it provides excellent background information about the people who minted and used ancient coins and the places where they lived. 2. Browse these Web sites for pricing, attributions, and pictures You can also find excellent information on the Web about ancient coin pricing, attribution, and counterfeits. Wildwinds http://www.wildwinds.com/coins This site provides the descriptions and prices realized of Roman, Greek, Byzantine, and Celtic coin auctions, primarily from eBay. The attributions are all provided by sellers, but this is still a good place to go when you're looking for information about your coins or for information about what coins you may be interested in have sold for. Virtual Catalog of Roman Coins http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/cml/rcape/vcrc This site focuses just on Roman coins, but it's a quick and easy way to view and read about and identify representative Roman Imperial coins of various emperors and Roman Republic coins of various time periods. FORVM Ancient Coins http://www.ancient-coin-forum.com/FORVM's_Attribution_Assist.htm This site provides a helpful "Attribution Assist System" where you type in a word or words from the legend of a Roman Imperial coin to try to identify which emperor minted it. Jencek's Ancient Coins and Antiques http://www.ancient-coins.com Similarly, this site provides a search engine, in this case for obverse legends of Roman coins, along with a list and description of Roman emperors and a handful of articles on other subjects. CoinArchives.com http://www.coinarchives.com This is a relatively new site that provides the descriptions and prices realized of ancient coins from European and U.S. auction houses, which typically are higher end, and higher priced, than those sold through eBay. Often the descriptions at CoinArchives.com are in languages other than English (mostly German), though you can usually make sense of them with the help of a translation tool such as AltaVista's BabelFish, at http://world.altavista.com/tr. For converting among different currencies, xe.com, at http://www.xe.com/ucc, is very useful. Calgary's Modern Fakes of Ancient Coins http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/fakes.htm Here you'll find excellent information and photos of counterfeits of ancient coins, including types of modern fakes, how to recognize forgeries, and recommended books for further study. Barry & Darling Ancient Coins' Counterfeits and Counterfeiters http://www.ancient-times.com/newsletters/n13/n13.html This site also includes good information and photos of fakes of ancient coins, such as ancient counterfeits, methods of manufacture for modern counterfeits, ways that counterfeits were detected in ancient times, and punishment for counterfeiting. 3. If you want more information, buy or borrow a book or several books Ancient Coin Collecting by Wayne Sayles (six-volume set) http://ancientcoins.ac/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE The first book is an overview and may be all you want. A seventh book, about forgeries, is titled Classical Deception. Roman Coins and Their Values, Greek Coins and Their Values, Byzantine Coins and Their Values, Greek Imperial Coins and Their Values, etc. by David Sear http://www.davidrsear.com The standard general cataloging works for ancient coins, with each set providing a representative sampling of the most frequently encountered coins along with attribution information. Coinage and History of the Roman Empire by David L. Vagi http://www.davidvagi.com Excellent history and background about Roman coins. Collecting Greek Coins by John Anthony Engagingly written and organized primer for collectors of Greek coins. 4. If you still want more information Borrow specialized books about subareas of interest to you from the American Numismatic Association, provided you're a member, for the cost of round-trip shipping, or buy them from various book sellers that specialize in ancient coin books http://www.money.org Spend a day (or days) poring through coin journal articles at the American Numismatic Society -- search through their holdings at their Web site first -- or have the ANS mail you copies at 25 cents/page with a $20 minimum http://www.amnumsoc.org 5. Periodical about ancient coins The Celator http://ancientcoins.ac/cws Excellent monthly magazine with articles from collectors and dealers about ancient coins and occasionally artifacts as well. 6. Online discussion groups about ancient coins One of the best ways to learn more about coins, ancient or otherwise, is to participate in one or more of the many online discussion groups about them. There's a rough and tumble side of online discussions -- conversation can quickly turn to debate which can in turn quickly turn to argument. But most people are friendly and eager to answer questions. Most of the discussion groups about ancient coins are e-mail based and take place through Yahoo Groups. You can elect to have all messages e-mailed to you individually as soon as they're posted or as a group once a day. Or you can choose to read messages through Yahoo's Web site, though this is slower. The purpose of most of the following discussion groups is apparent from the group's name, and when it's not, the purpose is included in parentheses. Moneta-L (ancient coins in general) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Moneta-L ACM-L (buying and selling ancient coins) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACM-L romancoincom http://groups.yahoo.com/group/romancoincom RomanCoins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanCoins RomanProvincialCoins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanProvincialCoins CoinsGreek http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinsGreek CelticCoins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CelticCoins islamic_coins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islamic_coins CoinForgeryDiscussionList http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinForgeryDiscussionList ACFDL (Ancient Coin Fakes and Deceptions List) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACFDL Uncleanedcoins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Uncleanedcoins UncleanedAncientCoins http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UncleanedAncientCoins Another e-mail discussion group, not from Yahoo Groups, is Numism-L. It hasn't been as active lately as it has been in the past, but it features more scholarly discussion about ancient and medieval coins. You can join through http://listserv.sc.edu/archives/numism-l.html. One interesting new Web-based discussion group, about coins in general but dealing with ancient coins as well, is Coin Talk, at http://cointalk.org. The most popular of all online discussion groups, also about coins in general, is the Usenet discussion group rec.collecting.coins (RCC). You can access it through a newsreader such as Forte Agent, an e-mail program with newsreading capabilities such as Microsoft Outlook Express, or the Web through Google Groups, at http://groups.google.com. Debates and arguments are much more prevalent in RCC, as they are in most Usenet discussion groups, than they are in e-mail based discussion groups, which are typically more tightly controlled. But RCC can still be a great way to learn about coins and share your experiences, and excitement, with others. 7. National organizations in which ancient coins play a part and which publish periodicals in which ancient coins play a part American Numismatic Association http://www.money.org American Numismatic Society http://www.amnumsoc.org Royal Numismatic Society http://www.rns.dircon.co.uk 8. Local clubs Ancient Coin Club of Los Angeles http://mjconnor.home.mindspring.com/accla Ancient Coin Club of Chicago http://www.sknapp.net/accc Pacific Ancient Numismatists http://www.pnna.org/pan Twin Cities Ancient Coin Club http://www.deepfield.com/anoot/twin.html Classical & Medieval Numismatic Society (Canada) http://home.cogeco.ca/~tczerned/cmns 9. Coin shows where ancient coins are a major emphasis New York International Numismatic Convention January Chicago International Coin Fair April Ancient coins have a smaller but still significant presence at the major U.S. coin shows, including the two ANA shows, the three Baltimore shows, the three Long Beach shows, and the F.U.N. show. Depending on the specific show, ancient coins may or may not have a presence at local coins shows. Sometimes a small number of dealers collaborate on putting together a local ancient coin "bourse" in a hotel or similar meeting place to sell their wares. 10. Woefully incomplete list of recommended dealers Occasionally expensive but world-renowned: Classical Numismatic Group (CNG) http://www.cngcoins.com Harlan J. Berk Curtis Clay http://www.harlanjberk.com Jonathan K. Kern http://www.jkerncoins.com Trustworthy, lower-cost dealers and eBay auctioneers: Dimitre Genov Ancient Auction House http://www.ancientauctionhouse.com ancientauctionhouse.com Perry Siegel Herakles Numismatics http://www.herakles-inc.com Ilian Lalev Ancient Caesar http://www.ancientcaesar.com ancientcaesar Francesca Serofilli Mediterranean Coins http://www.nomismaweb.com mediterraneancoins Clark Smith Coin Vault http://www.coinvault.com clarksmith Elia Demetrious Quality Ancient Coins q.a.coins Trustworthy value-priced auctioneer: Frank Robinson http://www.albany.net/~fr Good guys/good deals: Barry P. Murphy http://www.bpmurphy.com Marc Breitsprecher Ancient Imports http://www.ancientimports.com John C. Lavender Atlantis http://www.vcoins.com/atlantis Robert Kokotailo Calgary Coin & Antique http://www.calgarycoin.com/hub.htm Matt Kreuzer Old Roman Coins-Classical Cash http://www.oldromancoins.com John J. Jencek Jencek's Ancient Coins & Antiques http://www.ancient-coins.com Value-priced mail-order catalog dealers: Kirk Davis Wayne C. Phillips 909-629-0757 11. Ancient coin mall VCoins http://www.vcoins.com 12. European auction houses Gorny & Mosch http://www.gmcoinart.de Kuenker http://www.kuenker.de Numismatik Lanz http://www.lanz.com Baldwin's http://www.baldwins.sh Tkalec http://www.coinstkalec.ch Argenor Numismatique http://www.argenor.com Numismatica Ars Classica http://www.arsclassicacoins.com Dr. Busso Peus Nachfolger http://www.bussopeus.de CGB-CGF http://www.cgb.fr Jean Elsen http://www.elsen.be Leu Numismatics http://www.leu-numismatik.com Münzen & Medaillen 13. Ancient coin auction mall SixBid http://www.sixbid.com 14. Translating the German, French, etc., with mostly understandable results AltaVista BabelFish Translation http://world.altavista.com/tr 15. Currency conversion XE.com http://www.xe.com/ucc 16. Ancient coin search engine Ancient Coins.net http://www.ancientcoins.net -- Email: (delete "remove this") Coin Collecting: Consumer Protection Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
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Reid Goldsborough wrote:
There's been some mostly interesting and useful talk here recently about ancient coins, so I thought I'd post this again. why? |
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"Ian" wrote in message ... Reid Goldsborough wrote: There's been some mostly interesting and useful talk here recently about ancient coins, so I thought I'd post this again. why? Go **** off you *******, that was actually a kind intro to the usual attack threads reid posts |
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ftecaw wrote:
"Ian" wrote in message ... Reid Goldsborough wrote: There's been some mostly interesting and useful talk here recently about ancient coins, so I thought I'd post this again. why? Go **** off you *******, that was actually a kind intro to the usual attack threads reid posts Stop foolin' around Reid. |
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On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:47:05 GMT, Ian
wrote: Stop foolin' around Reid. Get a clue, Ian. How stupid can you be??? -- Email: (delete "remove this") Coin Collecting: Consumer Protection Guide: http://rg.ancients.info/guide Glomming: Coin Connoisseurship: http://rg.ancients.info/glom Bogos: Counterfeit Coins: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos |
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Reid Goldsborough wrote:
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:47:05 GMT, Ian wrote: Stop foolin' around Reid. Get a clue, Ian. How stupid can you be??? Difficult question to answer that one, and i'm not going to be snide in the answering. My comment was totally unfair, and added nothing to the sum total knowledge of the universe. Mea culpa. I do however have a fair collection of `clues' as well as `round tuits'. IM |
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Ian wrote:
Reid Goldsborough wrote: There's been some mostly interesting and useful talk here recently about ancient coins, so I thought I'd post this again. I feel left out... The original message, "Getting started with ancient coins - periodic post," is not available, apparently. I did find two threads, one from about four years ago. That discussion also lacked the original post. According to a quote in that thread, Reid Goldsborough claimed that Roman emperors were "tyrants." I had to stop and think about that. Were they "presidents" or perhaps "prime ministers" or maybe "kings"? Alas, without the original, I have to unhook the Bernz-o-matic. Michael "autocrat of the TV tray" |
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