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Seeburg S100 Tormat questons ( my first tormat )



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 26th 04, 04:00 AM
Jim Murphy \(Murf\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Credit switches do not affect the problem you are having. An earlier post is
right, check the selector switch bank. I have taken these things out into
the driveway and coated them with 409 or some other heavy duty cleaner and
hosed them down with the old garden hose. Do it 2 or 3 times. Remember that
this guy may have sat in a dirty smokey bar for 20 years and there is
probably more nicotine on the contacts than in the lungs of a chain smoker.
After cleaning in this manner, let it dry for several days, or blow it dry
with an air compressor and/or a hair dryer and then use electronic contact
cleaner thouroughly coating each contact group and pressing the button 35 -
50 times. Do each switch in the bank this way and I believe your problems
will go away.
JimJukebox

"Dennis Lavin" wrote in message
om...
Well- I got my 2 manuals a few days back, studied them and
re-adjusted the tormat asy. Now at least when I select "K0" , it dosnt
go past it any more. Also it picks up the correct "B" sides now, (
A2-A4 etc..)(not one digit off as before).

I used some Caig De-oxit cleaner on the wiper switch in the credit
unit too.
Still makes multiple selections at random. I have also spray cleaned
the selection switches,and recheked the RCA plug. Sometimes it works,
OK, then it gets goofy and does the multi play thing again!

I experemented with jumpering the wiper switch in the credit unit,
didn't clear it up(don't know if it would change anything, but I
thought it might eliminate one part ? ) I guess the next step might be
to check all the micro switches in the credit unit? Auful lot of
connections to check.....

Will keep you all posted. :-) Dennis.







(Rob) wrote in message

. com...
Hey Denny,
Sometimes the problem is the keyboard, or SELECTOR (the number/letter
buttons).
On a Seeburg, the wiper switches can, over the years, get a build-up
of tarnish and the resulting build-up can result in exactly the kinds
of problems you are describing. In any Seeburg tormat system, there
can literally be about 40 different "things" that can cause it to
malfunction, from a control center that needs rebuilt, to a loose
ground, to a dirty keyboard, to a weak 12AX7, 2050, or 6X4 tube, to
dirty detent switches, to plunger pins from the contact block being
mis-shaped from the rounded toroids, to an improper contact in the
credit unit, etc, etc, etc. The trick is to find which problem you are
encountering and deal with it appropriately.















(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
I have a manual on the way! I re-caped the tormat reciever unit, but
it still makes some craxy selections!

I marked the 2 end stops for the mech, then tried to change
adjustment-no help.

I put them back to there original positions( looks like they were
never moved from new) and tried re adjusting the detent switch behind
the motor. The set screw was loose on the switch. I tried it in
various settings, only thing it did was to keep scanning back and
forth when the allen screw was set all the way in, and no matter where
I put the screw ( backing it out) it just selects the wrong selection
like before. Say if I select A2 for example, it selects one record
higher(A4) and so on.

The "A" sides seem to be OK( A1-A3-A5) etc. But the "B" sides is where
most of the trouble seems to be. Makes multiple selestions on the "B"
sides (A2-A4-A6) etc.

I have cleaned the RCA plug and socket too.

Could I have a poor ground somewhere???

very frustrating :-(

Dennis.











(Shaun) wrote in message
. com...
Hi
I'm doing an AY160 and had exactly the same random selection issues.

I
recapped the pulse unit and it woirked first time from there. I

still
have the issue of selecting past the last record but got this tip

from
the group

@@@@
First, check the position and adjustment of the reversing switch
actuator (front bottom edge of mechanism base). If the actuator is
improperly positioned it can cause the carriage to trip for the
end-most selection when the carriage is not lined up correctly

(i.e.,
when the carriage is still in the middle of reversing direction).

Second, check the position of the Tormat memory unit; it may be
shifted slightly to the left.
@@@@

Good luck

Mind you I'd get the service guide, really helps

Cheers
Shaun




(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
Just an update, I checked the flex wires, there oK, good

connections.
I noticed that about 3 or 4 times the turntable mech unit will
sometimes go past the last record slot( K9-K0) and it will try to

pick
up a record(where there is none)on the very end of the carrage.

The
pick up arm actually comes up along side the last record slot! I

dont
have a book on it yet, so I dont know if this is a adjustment or
somthing else. Dosnt always do it, mabe 5 % of the time.

On the other end, (A1-A2) it seems OK.

The other weird thing is,say for instance, if I select K4, it will
pick up K6 first. Also seems like if I make a selection when the

mech
is going back to the right side( towards credit unit) that it will
loose any selections made before it gets to the end of travel .Any
selections made as it is traviling left will always work.

I think I have a Gremlin inside this juke !!!



I orderd a set of cap's for the pulse unit, so hopefully this will

fix
some of my problems!

Dennis.







(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
I was looking at them last night, and I think I will replace

them as
they are a little stiff. Also when the plungers are scanning,

there
are sparks @ the rivets as it passes along the tormat asy. Is

this
some of my problem ?

I was thinking of cleaning the contacts with an eraser, and

wiping
them clean and then putting silicone Diealectric grease on them.

Will
the grease harm anything?

Thanks-Dennis.














(Ken G.) wrote in message
...
The last 3 tormat machines i have worked on all had wires

falling off
the contact pin box that rides along the bottom of the tormat

..
They used ordinary wire on these that got hard from oil over

the years .
The wires are soldered to the end of the pins which vibrate up

& down
while moving along . This may be part of your problem .
I like to use the flex wires out of an old speaker that will

take the
``ride`` longer



Ads
  #12  
Old April 26th 04, 11:14 PM
Dennis Lavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Jim, I think I will clean them again( as you sugested) I noticed
that if I make a number selection first , then a letter selection, it
seems to work alot better.

Also kind of funny(but not really) if I make a selection when the mech
is returning to the right side( at rest position) after playing a
record it sometimes "looses" the next selection as it is scanning. If
I wait untill it goes into stand by, then re-select the same
song/selection then it's OK.

At least now I have it selecting the proper "B" sides so I am gaining
something!


Dennis.








"Jim Murphy \(Murf\)" wrote in message .. .
Credit switches do not affect the problem you are having. An earlier post is
right, check the selector switch bank. I have taken these things out into
the driveway and coated them with 409 or some other heavy duty cleaner and
hosed them down with the old garden hose. Do it 2 or 3 times. Remember that
this guy may have sat in a dirty smokey bar for 20 years and there is
probably more nicotine on the contacts than in the lungs of a chain smoker.
After cleaning in this manner, let it dry for several days, or blow it dry
with an air compressor and/or a hair dryer and then use electronic contact
cleaner thouroughly coating each contact group and pressing the button 35 -
50 times. Do each switch in the bank this way and I believe your problems
will go away.
JimJukebox

"Dennis Lavin" wrote in message
om...
Well- I got my 2 manuals a few days back, studied them and
re-adjusted the tormat asy. Now at least when I select "K0" , it dosnt
go past it any more. Also it picks up the correct "B" sides now, (
A2-A4 etc..)(not one digit off as before).

I used some Caig De-oxit cleaner on the wiper switch in the credit
unit too.
Still makes multiple selections at random. I have also spray cleaned
the selection switches,and recheked the RCA plug. Sometimes it works,
OK, then it gets goofy and does the multi play thing again!

I experemented with jumpering the wiper switch in the credit unit,
didn't clear it up(don't know if it would change anything, but I
thought it might eliminate one part ? ) I guess the next step might be
to check all the micro switches in the credit unit? Auful lot of
connections to check.....

Will keep you all posted. :-) Dennis.







(Rob) wrote in message

. com...
Hey Denny,
Sometimes the problem is the keyboard, or SELECTOR (the number/letter
buttons).
On a Seeburg, the wiper switches can, over the years, get a build-up
of tarnish and the resulting build-up can result in exactly the kinds
of problems you are describing. In any Seeburg tormat system, there
can literally be about 40 different "things" that can cause it to
malfunction, from a control center that needs rebuilt, to a loose
ground, to a dirty keyboard, to a weak 12AX7, 2050, or 6X4 tube, to
dirty detent switches, to plunger pins from the contact block being
mis-shaped from the rounded toroids, to an improper contact in the
credit unit, etc, etc, etc. The trick is to find which problem you are
encountering and deal with it appropriately.















(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
I have a manual on the way! I re-caped the tormat reciever unit, but
it still makes some craxy selections!

I marked the 2 end stops for the mech, then tried to change
adjustment-no help.

I put them back to there original positions( looks like they were
never moved from new) and tried re adjusting the detent switch behind
the motor. The set screw was loose on the switch. I tried it in
various settings, only thing it did was to keep scanning back and
forth when the allen screw was set all the way in, and no matter where
I put the screw ( backing it out) it just selects the wrong selection
like before. Say if I select A2 for example, it selects one record
higher(A4) and so on.

The "A" sides seem to be OK( A1-A3-A5) etc. But the "B" sides is where
most of the trouble seems to be. Makes multiple selestions on the "B"
sides (A2-A4-A6) etc.

I have cleaned the RCA plug and socket too.

Could I have a poor ground somewhere???

very frustrating :-(

Dennis.











(Shaun) wrote in message
. com...
Hi
I'm doing an AY160 and had exactly the same random selection issues.

I
recapped the pulse unit and it woirked first time from there. I

still
have the issue of selecting past the last record but got this tip

from
the group

@@@@
First, check the position and adjustment of the reversing switch
actuator (front bottom edge of mechanism base). If the actuator is
improperly positioned it can cause the carriage to trip for the
end-most selection when the carriage is not lined up correctly

(i.e.,
when the carriage is still in the middle of reversing direction).

Second, check the position of the Tormat memory unit; it may be
shifted slightly to the left.
@@@@

Good luck

Mind you I'd get the service guide, really helps

Cheers
Shaun




(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
Just an update, I checked the flex wires, there oK, good

connections.
I noticed that about 3 or 4 times the turntable mech unit will
sometimes go past the last record slot( K9-K0) and it will try to

pick
up a record(where there is none)on the very end of the carrage.

The
pick up arm actually comes up along side the last record slot! I

dont
have a book on it yet, so I dont know if this is a adjustment or
somthing else. Dosnt always do it, mabe 5 % of the time.

On the other end, (A1-A2) it seems OK.

The other weird thing is,say for instance, if I select K4, it will
pick up K6 first. Also seems like if I make a selection when the

mech
is going back to the right side( towards credit unit) that it will
loose any selections made before it gets to the end of travel .Any
selections made as it is traviling left will always work.

I think I have a Gremlin inside this juke !!!



I orderd a set of cap's for the pulse unit, so hopefully this will

fix
some of my problems!

Dennis.







(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message
. com...
I was looking at them last night, and I think I will replace

them as
they are a little stiff. Also when the plungers are scanning,

there
are sparks @ the rivets as it passes along the tormat asy. Is

this
some of my problem ?

I was thinking of cleaning the contacts with an eraser, and

wiping
them clean and then putting silicone Diealectric grease on them.

Will
the grease harm anything?

Thanks-Dennis.














(Ken G.) wrote in message
...
The last 3 tormat machines i have worked on all had wires

falling off
the contact pin box that rides along the bottom of the tormat

.
They used ordinary wire on these that got hard from oil over

the years .
The wires are soldered to the end of the pins which vibrate up

& down
while moving along . This may be part of your problem .
I like to use the flex wires out of an old speaker that will

take the
``ride`` longer

  #13  
Old April 27th 04, 12:41 AM
Ken G.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The favorite cleaner for these juke parts is Westleys Bleech wite tire
cleaner .
Take the whole keyboard out of the juke & spray it down with this stuff
& with a paint brush scrub around a bit for a while then hit the whole
thing with a spray from the garden hose and watch all the grime just
wash away . it wil not remove rust . Blow the whole thing dry with
forced air .. i use a shop vac with the hose plugged in the blow out
port with a crevice tool on the hose that will blow the water out then
use a good contact spray & oil all the moving metal parts levers e.t.c .
I do this with all chassis & mecks .. You must use caution however and
know what to remove on some units so water wont get in them .

  #14  
Old April 27th 04, 12:47 AM
Ken G.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I had that same skipping the next record problem . I turned that detent
screw in about 3 turns & it fixed the problem .
If you get it in to far it just wont select & keep scanning .. back it
out a bit .

  #15  
Old April 28th 04, 02:07 AM
Dennis Lavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just bought a new bottle of that stuff last saturday!
I never thought about using it. I was going to use some cleaner that I
use in the HVAC bussness that is used to remove grease,smoke ,nicitine
etc from compressor and evaporator coils, but thought it was a little
too strong, as it will stain some stainless steels( has acid in it).

If I get a little spare time this week end, I hope to get it
cleaned,(were getting ready for a trip out west ), one of our
daughters is getting married next week so i dont have much time in the
next few days to "play" ....

i'll give the Westleys Bleech a try. I had a simmillar problem last
winter with a wurlitzer 1250, was hard to clean with just contact
cleaner spray , probably could have used it on that one too!!

Thanks for the tip :-)

Dennis.










(Ken G.) wrote in message ...
The favorite cleaner for these juke parts is Westleys Bleech wite tire
cleaner .
Take the whole keyboard out of the juke & spray it down with this stuff
& with a paint brush scrub around a bit for a while then hit the whole
thing with a spray from the garden hose and watch all the grime just
wash away . it wil not remove rust . Blow the whole thing dry with
forced air .. i use a shop vac with the hose plugged in the blow out
port with a crevice tool on the hose that will blow the water out then
use a good contact spray & oil all the moving metal parts levers e.t.c .
I do this with all chassis & mecks .. You must use caution however and
know what to remove on some units so water wont get in them .

  #16  
Old April 28th 04, 02:12 AM
Dennis Lavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have been studing the manuals the last few nights, I think I have to
adjust it as per the instructions-when I got it(the juke) the screw
was loose, and the lock nut was almost off. Prev owner must have tried
to tweak it or somthing?

The tormat bar was also missing 2 screws, have gotten that adjusted ok
now. Sure helps when you have a manual to go by.


(Ken G.) wrote in message ...
I had that same skipping the next record problem . I turned that detent
screw in about 3 turns & it fixed the problem .
If you get it in to far it just wont select & keep scanning .. back it
out a bit .

  #17  
Old May 2nd 04, 10:02 PM
Dennis Lavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good News ! I removed the selector switch bank (keyboard) and
cleaned them out.Now the juke seems to work every time! Very
happy.


I ended up using the HVAC evaporator coil cleaner that I had on hand
to clean them. I first tried some of the westleys tire cleaner on a
junker switch that i had, not real great results, but it worked.It did
clean contacts of grime, etc..

Then I talked to a retiered TV-Radio repair man of 60 years, he
sugested using some M.E.K. to clean them. Said the stuff you use to
clean PVC pipe is the same. So I tried that also, wasnt bad, but
didn't remove any tarnish.

So I had a gallon of HVAC coil brightner/cleaner on hand, sprayed a
little on the "test switch", and within seconds it started to remove
years of tarnish & corosion. I got brave and took the keyboard
outside( as this stuff stinks) and sprayed each switch asy, and presed
each switch about 40 times before they freed up. I ended up cycling
them about 80 times each. Then I cleaned out all the loose "junk" with
some non-clorinated brake cleaner spray, air dried them with
compressed air, let dry again then out in the sun,applied come Caig
De-oxit as the final coat. Let it dry again.Put it back in the S100,
works like a charm now.

I never thought those switches would ever come clean, but they
actually look like shiny new copper contacks now!( they were black
before)

I want to thank all of you who took the time to help me on this , as
I said in my first post, I knew nothing about the tormat system.You
guy's are a great help!

Now I just have to re-check to see why it wont play the last record
selected sometimes. I think it might be in the detent adj. Does work
99% better than when I started this resto project.

Thanks-Dennis Lavin.













(Dennis Lavin) wrote in message . com...
I just bought a new bottle of that stuff last saturday!
I never thought about using it. I was going to use some cleaner that I
use in the HVAC bussness that is used to remove grease,smoke ,nicitine
etc from compressor and evaporator coils, but thought it was a little
too strong, as it will stain some stainless steels( has acid in it).

If I get a little spare time this week end, I hope to get it
cleaned,(were getting ready for a trip out west ), one of our
daughters is getting married next week so i dont have much time in the
next few days to "play" ....

i'll give the Westleys Bleech a try. I had a simmillar problem last
winter with a wurlitzer 1250, was hard to clean with just contact
cleaner spray , probably could have used it on that one too!!

Thanks for the tip :-)

Dennis.










(Ken G.) wrote in message ...
The favorite cleaner for these juke parts is Westleys Bleech wite tire
cleaner .
Take the whole keyboard out of the juke & spray it down with this stuff
& with a paint brush scrub around a bit for a while then hit the whole
thing with a spray from the garden hose and watch all the grime just
wash away . it wil not remove rust . Blow the whole thing dry with
forced air .. i use a shop vac with the hose plugged in the blow out
port with a crevice tool on the hose that will blow the water out then
use a good contact spray & oil all the moving metal parts levers e.t.c .
I do this with all chassis & mecks .. You must use caution however and
know what to remove on some units so water wont get in them .

  #18  
Old May 2nd 04, 11:26 PM
Bob E.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dennis Lavin wrote:

So I had a gallon of HVAC coil brightner/cleaner on hand, sprayed a
little on the "test switch", and within seconds it started to remove
years of tarnish & corosion. I got brave and took the keyboard
outside( as this stuff stinks) and sprayed each switch asy, and presed
each switch about 40 times before they freed up. I ended up cycling
them about 80 times each. Then I cleaned out all the loose "junk" with
some non-clorinated brake cleaner spray, air dried them with
compressed air, let dry again then out in the sun,applied come Caig
De-oxit as the final coat. Let it dry again.Put it back in the S100,
works like a charm now.

I never thought those switches would ever come clean, but they
actually look like shiny new copper contacks now!( they were black
before)


Well, I think they may have been silver-plated at one time...
If that HVAC cleaner stuff is what I think it is (I was using some
many years ago, and got it in my eyes! The pressure sprayer I was
using sprang a leak...) it is somewhat acidic. Cleans corrosion off
of bare aluminum condensers great, leaving fresh, bare aluminum. I
hope it didn't remove any plating from your switch contacts.

--Bob

================================================== =====================
Bob Ellingson
Halted Specialties Co., Inc.
http://www.halted.com
3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573
Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA (408) 732-6428 (FAX)
  #19  
Old May 3rd 04, 06:39 AM
Ken G.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You must have had a very nasty dirty keyboard .. westleys normally
removes tarnish from silver plated contacts when i use it .
The contacts should be silver colored . Glad you got it fixed though .

  #20  
Old May 3rd 04, 07:49 PM
Dennis Lavin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yes, they were very bad. It must have sat for a long time.

I didnt leave the cleaner on the switches for very long, flushed them
out real good and appllied the caig deox it stuff, it has some kind of
protector in it(acording to the can ! )

Nice to have it back in shape. :-)

Dennis.






(Ken G.) wrote in message ...
You must have had a very nasty dirty keyboard .. westleys normally
removes tarnish from silver plated contacts when i use it .
The contacts should be silver colored . Glad you got it fixed though .

 




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