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#21
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"PGBarto" wrote in message ... http://www.tappi.org/paperu/all_abou...paperClips.htm Scroll down: yes trees can be planted and harvested gary Nice work Gary. I thought it was only done in Europe. Okay folks, you can start buying wooden pens without guilt -- Best regards, Free Citizen Fountain Pen Network A pen site run by the Pen Community http://pagesperso.laposte.net/fpnet |
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#22
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David wrote:
On 2004-10-03 07:03:49 -0700, (PGBarto) said: Scroll down: yes trees can be planted and harvested Yes they can. But that isn't what's generally done now, and that was my point. If all non-farm logging was eliminated right now, there wouldn't be much left on the market. And if we just re-define "farm" to mean "basically anywhere that trees are being cut and new ones planted", we won't be any better off. A farm is a farm. "We're eliminating industry demands for cutting down more and more forest land by establishing small, intensive tree farms that will fill the demand instead" is not on the website. David I think you are wrong about that as far as U.S. is concerned. I believe most paper products are made from farmed trees. I once had a friend who managed farmed forests for International Paper, and he said that nearly all the IP pulp came from farms. The trees are planted in rows, and have a consistent size, making them more economical to harvest and process than the random sizes and growth patterns of forestlands. Most cutting in old growth forests is for lumber and manufactured goods such as furniture. |
#23
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"Reuben S. Pitts III" wrote in message ... Bluesea wrote: "JimL" wrote in message om... I never understood this concept of "saving trees." Like any farm crop, harvest them, plant more. Therein lies the problem: Not everyone who harvests trees are planting more to replace those they've cut down. We can stand a certain amount of non-replenishment, but ecologists say not to the extent that has been going on. Not only is the land denuded allowing erosion, but also the quality of air is affected because the leaves which acted as natural air filters are gone. IIRC, climate is affected also, but I don't remember how that worked. Actually, the pulp wood (used to make paper) producers do plant new trees. They are typically pine, grown on large farms, and regrow rapidly. I'm no expert on the relative "greenness" of recycling paper vs. making new paper from trees, but the harvesting and regrowth of trees is not the issue. The clear cutting that is not replanted is usually either land clearing (rain forest countries) or hard woods for lumber and materials used in fabrication. No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant. It was relatively easy for her since her husband has connections with a lumber mill. He asked about prospective buyers and was warned away from those with reputations of raping the land in that manner. Last month, she and her sister went to check on what the new owner had done to the property and she was pleased that it was logged and not clear cut just as the buyer had promised. -- ~~Bluesea~~ Spam is great in musubi but not in email. Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply. |
#24
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Bluesea wrote:
"Reuben S. Pitts III" wrote in message ... Bluesea wrote: "JimL" wrote in message om... I never understood this concept of "saving trees." Like any farm crop, harvest them, plant more. Therein lies the problem: Not everyone who harvests trees are planting more to replace those they've cut down. We can stand a certain amount of non-replenishment, but ecologists say not to the extent that has been going on. Not only is the land denuded allowing erosion, but also the quality of air is affected because the leaves which acted as natural air filters are gone. IIRC, climate is affected also, but I don't remember how that worked. Actually, the pulp wood (used to make paper) producers do plant new trees. They are typically pine, grown on large farms, and regrow rapidly. I'm no expert on the relative "greenness" of recycling paper vs. making new paper from trees, but the harvesting and regrowth of trees is not the issue. The clear cutting that is not replanted is usually either land clearing (rain forest countries) or hard woods for lumber and materials used in fabrication. No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant. Sold for what use? |
#25
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Bluesea wrote:
No, clear cutting happens in the U.S., too. My cousin recently sold some land with timber in ID and had to be diligent about finding a good buyer because too often, a bad logger will come in, clear cut the land, and then it's sold to someone else who doesn't replant. It was relatively easy for her since her husband has connections with a lumber mill. He asked about prospective buyers and was warned away from those with reputations of raping the land in that manner. Last month, she and her sister went to check on what the new owner had done to the property and she was pleased that it was logged and not clear cut just as the buyer had promised. I agree that clear cutting occurs in the U. S. at an alarming rate. I think most of it is for uses other than paper products. I see clear cutting here in Virginia all the time. In some instances it is good because it allows seedlings that do not tolerate shade get a good start. In other instances it is bad because the land is prone to erosion, etc. My friend that was in the business made a good point to me that the best way to restart an overgrown forest was a fire, which is essentially clear cutting. Something about letting the sun get to the ground and start certain kinds of growth. It's been a long time and I don't remember the details. |
#26
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snipped all
Of course we wouldn't have to use trees for paper if they (insert your favorite legislature) would just get off their holier than thou backsides and allow the cultivation of industrial hemp. But I'm not going to hold my breath (no pun intended!) Regards, DAve |
#27
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In article ,
Free Citizen wrote: But KCat, in Sweden, they have very successfully harvested trees for furniture and paper making. I don't know what the turn around planting time is but I see that the harvesting is mechanised. In the south of Sweden spruce can be cut down when it's 60-70 years old. More in the middle and north (90+), a little less in the far south. If it's a forest and supposed to remain a forest/fir or spruce plantation, you basically have to replant as much as you've cut down. I wonder if it is all for IKEA. Hardly. I think paper and pulp is a much larger than wood and of wood for construction I'm sure houses is a larger proportion than furniture. Besides, lots of IKEA's products aren't made in Sweden. Paper is very cheap in Sweden compared with many other places. -- Urban Fredriksson Favourite pens and inks: http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/writing/ |
#28
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Rather than having to worry about wide rule or narrow, what I've been doing
this semester is just buying lots of pads of quadrille paper (with the smallest quad boxes, not larger ones.) Not only do they give me the option of using whatever size of line I want, so that I can write notes to myself with large headings and then my regular, small cursive, but I've also started handwriting outlines to my lectures, leaving a number of quad lines empty beneath each heading or subheading, and passing these out to my class before I talk. The extra spacing makes it possible for them to write notes in an organized way (at least, in semi-outline form), and I noticed Saturday that they really DO write more notes in response to my handwritten outlines instead of the typed ones (which just look like regular handouts -- apparently, the handwritten ones look a bit more personal - and incomplete!) The big advantage, besides the options in line spacing, though: quadrille lines don't show up on photocopied pages, so that my students probably think I have some of the neatest, STRAIGHTEST handwriting they've seen. Sally "JimL" wrote in message om... Just an idle muse question. The packages of paper cut and punched for three-ring notebook binders for school children (and old children like me, gathering cheap scratch paper in the back to school sales). -- The pages are lined, and one of the two sizes of lines is labelled as "college ruled." Why is that? Is ther an assumption that, by the time one hiots college, that our handwriting will become smaller? I have a shelf of ring binders, with my class notes, one binder per semester. I don't know why I even took notes, because I ddon't gho back to them. And I don't know why I still save them all 30 years later! But it is interesting to go bacck to them occasionally an notice how my handwriting mutated or evolved over the years. (as well as my note taking styles). Sometimes larger, sometimes smaller. But I can't really say that my handwriting got progressively smaller the farther along I progressed in classes. Do the manufacturers just assume that college students write smaller than younger ones? Or that we need more lines per page? Oh well, nothing significant. Talk amongst yourselves. |
#29
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On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:37:03 GMT, David wrote:
Farm crops are grown on a circumscribed piece of land, and the farmer plants the crop, waits until it matures, harvests it, and starts over. If trees were farmed this way (small plots of dedicated land, planting your own trees, waiting till the crop is mature, cutting it all down, and starting again on the same small piece of land) then your argument would make more sense to me. Farmers don't cut things they didn't plant themselves. This will come as a surprise to those that are in the Christmas tree business. And the trees that are used for paper are definitely more like the Christmas tree market than mid-growth housing and furniture grade trees. Some of it is harvested at 7 years and I'm sure those that husband these kind of forests have enough land to rotate over a 7-10 year plan for this kind of lumber. Of course, even that is a bit off mark in that there is relatively little housing grade lumber used in housing, since that's a hangover from the days of real lumber used in many parts of the house. Now once you get past the 2" by 3" and 2" by 4" pieces, its mostly composite. And the 2 by 3 and 2 by 4 pieces aren't 2 by 3 or 2 by 4... Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
#30
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Curtis L. Russell wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:37:03 GMT, David wrote: Farm crops are grown on a circumscribed piece of land, and the farmer plants the crop, waits until it matures, harvests it, and starts over. If trees were farmed this way (small plots of dedicated land, planting your own trees, waiting till the crop is mature, cutting it all down, and starting again on the same small piece of land) then your argument would make more sense to me. Farmers don't cut things they didn't plant themselves. This will come as a surprise to those that are in the Christmas tree business. And the trees that are used for paper are definitely more like the Christmas tree market than mid-growth housing and furniture grade trees. Some of it is harvested at 7 years and I'm sure those that husband these kind of forests have enough land to rotate over a 7-10 year plan for this kind of lumber. ----------SNIP--------- Now there's a double solution! Transform those "Christmas" tree farms into sources for paper! Talk about wasting natures resources, those "Christmas" trees are chopped down and allowed to dies in three weeks, then get tossed out. I always hated seeing all those pagan Druid symbols (evergreen trees) being mistakenly used as a Christian symbol. I have always refused to have one in my home (except in the form of fine paper or wooden pencils). (How's that for a screeching left turn off topic, and then back on in the last line?) |
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