PING Jim Higgins ( Mesembria In Thrace)

A.E. Gelat wrote:
Mesembria is a town on the Greek Aegean coast, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis, in Greek Thrace.

Tony



Hi, Tony.

I did a bit of research on this today and discovered that there were
two Thracian towns named Mesembria.

One is mentioned briefly by Herodotus as a stronghold of the
Samothracians. This is the one to which you refer. It issued perhaps
only one coin depicting Dionysos on the obverse and a bunch of grapes
and the legend MESAMBRIANON on the reverse.

The more important of the two Mesembrias was founded by colonists from
Megara. In ancient times it was an important colony of on the Euxine
(Black Sea). It is today's Nessebur, Bulgaria. Its coinage has either
a crested helmet, Athena or a turreted city personified on the obverse
and the marks META/MESA (in four quadrants of a wheel) or
MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON as the reverse.

MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON is translated as "of the Messembrians." The
unusual aspect of these inscription is that earlier coins carry META,
the T being a representation of a double sigma, SS, known as sampi, an
obsolete letter of the Greek alphabet. Later coins exhibit a single
sigma, as in MESA.

The name of modern-day Nessebur, Bulgaria has undergone many changes:
Messambria, Messembria, Melsabria, Messemvria.



~Anka

Anita, I am aware of the other Mesembria, but I was responding to the
question about the one in Thrace.

Tony

"Anka" wrote in message
oups.com...

A.E. Gelat wrote:
Mesembria is a town on the Greek Aegean coast, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis, in Greek Thrace.

Tony



Hi, Tony.

I did a bit of research on this today and discovered that there were
two Thracian towns named Mesembria.

One is mentioned briefly by Herodotus as a stronghold of the
Samothracians. This is the one to which you refer. It issued perhaps
only one coin depicting Dionysos on the obverse and a bunch of grapes
and the legend MESAMBRIANON on the reverse.

The more important of the two Mesembrias was founded by colonists from
Megara. In ancient times it was an important colony of on the Euxine
(Black Sea). It is today's Nessebur, Bulgaria. Its coinage has either
a crested helmet, Athena or a turreted city personified on the obverse
and the marks META/MESA (in four quadrants of a wheel) or
MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON as the reverse.

MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON is translated as "of the Messembrians." The
unusual aspect of these inscription is that earlier coins carry META,
the T being a representation of a double sigma, SS, known as sampi, an
obsolete letter of the Greek alphabet. Later coins exhibit a single
sigma, as in MESA.

The name of modern-day Nessebur, Bulgaria has undergone many changes:
Messambria, Messembria, Melsabria, Messemvria.



~Anka





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Ï "gogu" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
Ï "Ed Hendricks" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
gogu wrote:

Then still in Greece...
So it's strange that those Greek refuges from Eastern Thrace (under
Turkey today) came from a city named ... Mesembria!
Is it possible there was also a city called Mesembria but out of the
geographical area called Mesembria?...


I'm getting confused. :-) I have always thought of Mesembria as a city
only. I know nothing of a "geographical area" called Mesembria.

I thought just like you but obviously I must investigate it a bit more.
Let's see if I can find something during this weekend, I'll be out for a
wedding and one of the families is from ... New Mesembria!
I hope I'll have some more details Monday.


OK, I am back and I have some answers from people actually living in New
Mesembria..
Well, it seems that my explanation about everything "New ... something" in
Greece coming from an homonymous city in today's Turkey is accurate in 99%
of the cases
but there is still 1% remaining and that's exactly the case of Mesembria and
New Mesembria!
The New Mesembria is *not* at all near the old setlement of Mesembria but
it's actually in the Prefecture of Thessaloniki!
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county) before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.

-------------
An earlier Thracian settlement, perhaps named Mesembria, existed before the
Greek city of Zone was founded as a colony of Samothrace in the late 7th
century BC.
Two contiguous enceintes have been excavated: the W which ascends as far as
the acropolis, and the E which is earlier and lower down. At their SW end
the so-called 'walled settlement', a quarter with separate fortification and
building insulae of houses, workshops and shops, in accordance with the
Hippodamian system (phases from 5th to 2nd century BC), was discovered. In
the SE part of the W enceinte are foundations of a sanctuary of Demeter (4th
century BC). Close to the E enceinte are architectural remains of the temple
of Apollo (6th and 5th centuries BC) incorporated in a larger building
complex with central court and stoa.

The city's cemeteries extend to the W. Zone was abandoned after the 6th
century AD.
At the site of Kakliki there are foundations of buildings and marble reliefs
of the Early Christian period. At Dikella, 2 km E of modern Mesemvria, Early
Christian reliefs have been found.
Finds are exhibited in the Komotini Archaeological Museum.
--------------

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

A.E. Gelat wrote:
Mesembria is a town on the Greek Aegean coast, between Maroneia and
Alexandroupolis, in Greek Thrace.

Tony



Hi, Tony.

I did a bit of research on this today and discovered that there were
two Thracian towns named Mesembria.

One is mentioned briefly by Herodotus as a stronghold of the
Samothracians. This is the one to which you refer. It issued perhaps
only one coin depicting Dionysos on the obverse and a bunch of grapes
and the legend MESAMBRIANON on the reverse.

The more important of the two Mesembrias was founded by colonists from
Megara. In ancient times it was an important colony of on the Euxine
(Black Sea). It is today's Nessebur, Bulgaria. Its coinage has either
a crested helmet, Athena or a turreted city personified on the obverse
and the marks META/MESA (in four quadrants of a wheel) or
MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON as the reverse.

MESAMBRIANON/METAMBRIANON is translated as "of the Messembrians." The
unusual aspect of these inscription is that earlier coins carry META,
the T being a representation of a double sigma, SS, known as sampi, an
obsolete letter of the Greek alphabet.


It's a strange name if you consider that Di-sigma means two sigmas, SS, even
if in some inscriptions it looks like the today's Greek ... "psi", Ø(you'll
need to have Greek fonts installed to see this letter)!
I find it interesting the fact that there is another Greek word written in
those times with double TT, which later became double ss!
It's the famous word in Xenophon's exclamation in Cyrus' Anabasis, when he
saw the sea after their extenuating march: "Thala-tt-a, thala-tt-a", meaning
"Sea, sea"!
Later the double tt became ... double ss, and the word is written
"thala-ss-a"...
So we have a double s becoming later a double (or a single) s and a double t
becoming later a double s!
I thought that those ancient Greeks were following some rules;-)

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

gogu wrote:
I find it interesting the fact that there is another Greek word written in
those times with double TT, which later became double ss!
It's the famous word in Xenophon's exclamation in Cyrus' Anabasis, when he
saw the sea after their extenuating march: "Thala-tt-a, thala-tt-a", meaning
"Sea, sea"!
Later the double tt became ... double ss, and the word is written
"thala-ss-a"...


So when and how did thalassa become a woman's name, Thalassa? Have you
heard of the plant guru, Thalassa Caruso?


~Anka

gogu wrote:
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county) before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.


Hello? Is anyone listening? The Mesembria of coinage fame is the town
of Nessebur in Bulgaria. Herodotus and Strabon both mention it.

~Anka

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

gogu wrote:
I find it interesting the fact that there is another Greek word written
in
those times with double TT, which later became double ss!
It's the famous word in Xenophon's exclamation in Cyrus' Anabasis, when
he
saw the sea after their extenuating march: "Thala-tt-a, thala-tt-a",
meaning
"Sea, sea"!
Later the double tt became ... double ss, and the word is written
"thala-ss-a"...


So when and how did thalassa become a woman's name, Thalassa?

I don't know if in the States or in some other country this is a woman's
name but in Greek it isn't!
Or to be more accurate maybe some weirdo Greek can name his daughter this
way but it is not a proper name.

Have you
heard of the plant guru, Thalassa Caruso?

Nope, the only Caruso I know is the (late?...) Italian opera singer,
actually the last "castrato".


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html



~Anka

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
ups.com...

gogu wrote:
The ancient city of Mesembria lies in the Evros prefecture (near the
shore
and near the old Egnatia Street), the last Greek prefecture (county)
before
Turkey.
The only geographical reference I found was as "Plains of Mesembria" and
never as an administrative entity/theme or other...
So the explanation Ed gave originally seems to be correct!

PS
Jim, I found a quite good map of the ancient Mesembria, I am going to
post it at the photo group.


Hello? Is anyone listening? The Mesembria of coinage fame is the town
of Nessebur in Bulgaria. Herodotus and Strabon both mention it.

Maybe but I was trying to clarify the connection between the "New Mesembria"
and the ancient one(s).

But I somehow doubt that the "Bulgarian" Mesembria is the one of the coins
because I found a site where they say the Mesembria in the Greek Thrace have
cut these coins.
I am sorry I didn't bookmark the site...

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

~Anka

gogu wrote:

Nope, the only Caruso I know is the (late?...) Italian opera singer,
actually the last "castrato".



I don't think so! The last castrato was Alessandro Moreschi!


~Anka

? "Anka" ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...

gogu wrote:

Nope, the only Caruso I know is the (late?...) Italian opera singer,
actually the last "castrato".



I don't think so! The last castrato was Alessandro Moreschi!

Well, I can only say that I remember I've seen in Italy a film where Caruso
was named as the last castrato.
If the film was wrong then I am also wrong.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html


~Anka