Another Proposal for the $20 Bill

Bruce Remick wrote:

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message
...

"Aladdin Sane" wrote in message
news:WflPb.93273$sv6.356046@attbi_s52...
Interesting, but was Sitting Bull ever a US citizen? Even today, Indian
lands are Soverign entities.

--

Quite interesting, but all Native Americans were made citizens of the US
with some act in 1926. But some tribes, notably the Five Tribes of
Oklahoma
became citizens in 1907 when their forcibly annexed and overrun territory
was incorporated into the United States as the state of Oklahoma that
year.

Nowadays many of the Nations are sovereign as you mention, and handle much
of their government, which the gamblers pay for in the casinos. In fact I
notice that many of them have their own licence plates on their cars etc.
I
do some contract work for a school on a tribal land in Northern Michigan,
it
is nice to see they are so self sufficient now, mainly because of the
greedy
gamblers.

ANYONE who bases their local economy on the fortunes of a gambling
establishment is literally building a house of cards. Whenever a better
one comes along somewhere else and/or they are shut down, that revenue
stream and those jobs go bye-bye.

Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native
Americans? Sigh......

Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was
born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen.

--
___________________________________________ ____ _______________
Regards, | |\ ____
| | | | |\
Michael G. Koerner May they | | | | | | rise again!
Appleton, Wisconsin USA | | | | | |
___________________________________________ | | | | | | _______________

"Michael G. Koerner" wrote in message
Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was
born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen.

Well now that is the case, but back in 1898 when my grandfather was born in
the Indian Territory it was not. He was not a citizen of the USA by virtue
of having the then apparent misfortune of his Native American blood. He
became a citizen in 1907 when the Indian Territory became the state of
Oklahoma, members of the so called "Five Civilised Tribes"(In quotes because
this is what they called them, like they were the only civilised ones, and
the rest were nasty savages) were granted citizenship. Others, the
"savages" as they were contemporarily and derisevely known as, were not
granted citizenship until 1926.

Dave


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"Michael G. Koerner" wrote in message
...
Every 'native' American is a USA citizen (read the Constitution). I was
born in Milwaukee, WI and by that fact, am a USA citizen.

--

Yep, it is in the Constitution as you cite, I completely agree with you.
However 18-19th century 'Mericans did not. Otherwise Native Americans would
not have forcibly been removed from their lands in the east and sent packing
to Indian Territory(now Oklahoma) Oh and all men are created equal and have
the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Hmmm, slavery was
not outlawed until the 13th amendment replaced it in 1865 with
"Sharecropping". I don't think they thought they were free either.

Dave



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"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DG644BTUO1.DTL

Good arguments for removing Jack&$$ from the $20 bill, but I would prefer to
see a noble Native American such as Sitting Bull.


They can keep Jackson, just get rid of the colors and make it green again.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native
Americans? Sigh......

How is it backward? They're foreigners! ))

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 16:58:09 -0500, Padraic Brown
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on Native
Americans? Sigh......

How is it backward? They're foreigners! ))


I sense this is not a new discussion, and will bite my tongue!

Can we get this on to Australia in anyway?

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
news:y_tPb.22492$Mb7.4964@lakeread04...

Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on
Native
Americans? Sigh......

Bruce
My Grandfather was one of the ones whom became a citizen of the USA in
1907.
Kind of ridiculous when you think about it, because as far back as the
stories go, his ancestors lived in what is now the USA. They were forced
from their homes in Northern Georgia at gunpoint during the reign of
Andrew
Jack&$$ and marched to the so called Indian Territory which was said to be
theirs for eternity. But in 1889 the so called Indian Territory was
opened
to settlement by the USA Govt.

The feeling I get when I travel in the Nations, is that many like the new
autonomy, hopefully soon more and more of the Nations will take on the
lead
of some such as the Seven Nations of New York which issue passports to
their
citizens.

I do not believe in gaming, but I cannot help but smirk at the irony that
it
has created, Native Americans getting a steady income from the employment
it
has created, new homes, nice cars and most of all cutting the ties of
dependence on the Bureau of Indian Affairs. I also like seeing busloads
of
palefaces clamouring to spend their monies in the casinos and the stores,
even gas stations which are all cheaper because of the tax exemption.
Hopefully soon, a creation of coins, and paper money will follow
accordingly
in this new autonomous environment. The Shawnee Nation of Oklahoma
created
Silver Dollars during 2003 and is said to be following up this year as
they
were so popular.


I share your approval of the irony. But I just wish there were no need for
irony. One of the few things I've been embarrassed at my country about in
my 60+ years.

Bruce

"Padraic Brown" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:10:58 -0500, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


Doesn't something seem backwards here? Bestowing US citizenship on
Native
Americans? Sigh......

How is it backward? They're foreigners! ))

Padraic.


I enjoy arguing views with you in some threads, Padriac, but I think I'll
pass on this one.....

Bruce

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 05:47:48 -0500, Scottishmoney
wrote:


"Aladdin Sane" wrote in message
news:WflPb.93273$sv6.356046@attbi_s52...
Interesting, but was Sitting Bull ever a US citizen? Even today, Indian
lands are Soverign entities.

--

Quite interesting, but all Native Americans were made citizens of the US
with some act in 1926. But some tribes, notably the Five Tribes of
Oklahoma
became citizens in 1907 when their forcibly annexed and overrun territory
was incorporated into the United States as the state of Oklahoma that
year.

Nowadays many of the Nations are sovereign as you mention, and handle
much
of their government, which the gamblers pay for in the casinos. In fact
I
notice that many of them have their own licence plates on their cars
etc. I
do some contract work for a school on a tribal land in Northern
Michigan, it
is nice to see they are so self sufficient now, mainly because of the
greedy
gamblers.

Dave

But the white man has seen the riches of the new casinos and is working
diligently to build his own casinos in better locations. At least up here.

"Scottishmoney" wrote in message ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DG644BTUO1.DTL

Good arguments for removing Jack&$$ from the $20 bill, but I would prefer to
see a noble Native American such as Sitting Bull.

Dave

--
I agree it's time for a change on the $20 bill, which is now the
workhorse denomination of U.S. commerce and the only thing most ATMs
spit out these days. If the portrait on the $20 was decided on moral
grounds and ideals espoused by the subject, free of racism, MLK would
have replaced Jackson years ago. By the same reasoning, Grant
wouldn't be on the $50 anymore. Does the longevity of their portraits
speak for the political influence of racists and drunkards, or does it
just prove Americans' apathy or fondness for the status quo? I assume
we are still stuck in the rut of honoring dead presidents or those who
should have been/could have been presidents. Obviously the
denomination has no relation to how we cherish the pictured historical
person, or Abe Lincoln and George Washington would be on bigger bills
than Grover Cleveland, Salmon Chase, or even Woodrow Wilson.

I'd like to see a return to native Americans and Miss Liberty depicted
on our currency, but doubt such a change will take place before 2026
or so. Native Americans and Miss Liberty were allegorical figures who
remained uncontroversial for many years. Education hasn't been
celebrated on US currency for over 100 years, and would have lasted
longer had an allegorical depiction not been so controversial.

I suspect that the eventual change will not be based on who was the
greatest orator or who spent his life for standards of morality or
justice. What would it take to change the portraits? A national
disaster? Money buying lobbyists in congress? The Jefferson lobby from
Virginia has quelled efforts to put Martin Luther King on the nickel,
so I suspect that portraits on coins and currency are subject to
disapproval by even limited special interests.

In the lack of national attention (such as the assasination of JFK
prematurely ending the Franklin half dollar), how can a group persuade
congress to actually make a change in who is depicted on a
denomination? Can the major distillers and tobacco companies hire
lobbyists effective enough to replace Andrew Jackson with Humphrey
Bogart on the $20? If Osama bin Laden attacks simultaneously attacjs
major cities in California Arnold Schwarznegger on the series 2006 %20
note? Barring such a catastrophe, might the most powerful financiers
put J.P. Morgan on a bill, or bring Salmon Chase back into
circulation? If the popular vote were relevant in such decisions, we
would have a different pop star eplacing a dead president or secretary
of the treasury's portrait every year.
(Marilyn Monroe as Miss Liberty or Elvis anyone? If living
entertainers could be depicted on circulating coins, People Magazine
and Enterainment Tonight would be sure to cover congressional debates.

An interesting thread, which makes me wonder "how could" instead of
"why should".