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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 16th 06, 03:28 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Sven Konietzko
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Posts: 4
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

Am Sat, 15 Jul 2006 01:43:01 -0700 schrieb Dave:

2D barcode technology is well developed and used for example in
franking machines. There may be reasons why not to introduce the
technology such as to let dollar bills be the currency of corruption.

Dave.

Sorry, I just thought that RDIF tags could have a similar function- if
they could be given a unique signiature.


Do you mean RFID tags?

regards
--
Sven Konietzko
http://www.alheris.de

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  #22  
Old July 16th 06, 06:57 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Dave
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Posts: 13
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?


John Boyle wrote:
In message . com, Dave
writes

John Boyle wrote:
In message .com, Dave
writes
So if I got 5K in cash to buy a car at an auction, got the serial
numbers, and was robbed, if the money turned up at a bank 3 months
later I would have lost ownership?

In many respect bank notes are like bills of exchange in which title
passes by delivery. A subsequent holder of the note would obtain good
title especially if he had given value for it.
This doesn't seem right,

My point was that the title may have been obtained illegally (e.g.
street robbery), so the original holder should retain title.


No, a subsequent holder of a bill can develop the paramount title as a
'holder in due course' so long as the bill carries no restrictive
crossing and so long as it is taken in good faith by the holder without
any notice of a defect in title of the transferor and for value and
therefore oit is possible for the holder to acquire a better title than
the transferor.

It sounds
like an essay for a law student.

Quite. the point about bank notes is covered quite explicitly in Miller
v Race in which a bank refused to honour one of its notes that had been
stolen and had subsequently found its way to the plaintiff who acquired
it quite legitimately and in good faith. It was held that the bank was
still liable to the plaintiff on the note.
--
John Boyle

Thank you for your informative post. This leads onto a couple of
issues, the first of which may be worthy of a top level post in
uk.legal.
What about other countries in Europe do they all apply the same ruling?
i.e. harmonization of case law across the EU. This may be especially
relevant if the UK starts using the Euro.

Miller v Race was in 1758, so presumably the ruling applies to the US
as well. However this was in the days of the gold standard, and could
be outdated. Today money is just a general swindle so a modern jury or
judge may find that both parties have a valid claim and should be paid
equally to the full amount. Is the only way to overturn case law to
pass an act of parliament?

  #23  
Old July 16th 06, 07:24 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
John Boyle
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Posts: 1
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

In message .com, Dave
writes
This leads onto a couple of
issues, the first of which may be worthy of a top level post in
uk.legal.
What about other countries in Europe do they all apply the same ruling?


I have no idea I'm afraid! Except the basis of this are the Bills of
Exchange Acts which are generally in harmony.


i.e. harmonization of case law across the EU. This may be especially
relevant if the UK starts using the Euro.


Yes. I am no sure of the status of a 'euro'.

Miller v Race was in 1758, so presumably the ruling applies to the US
as well. However this was in the days of the gold standard, and could
be outdated.


I dont think us now having a fiduciary issue effects the underlying
principles which is that as applied to Negotiable Instruments.
Similarly, I think the concept of 'legal tender' is also irrelevant,
Today money is just a general swindle so a modern jury or
judge may find that both parties have a valid claim and should be paid
equally to the full amount.


Hmm, I think this is bringing back the question 'are we talking about
the theft of a piece of paper or the theft of monetary value?'. If the
first, then I would agree with you, if the latter, then I wouldnt. I
like the latter line the best.


Is the only way to overturn case law to
pass an act of parliament?

No,there can be further precedents.
--
John Boyle
  #24  
Old July 16th 06, 07:52 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Dave
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Posts: 13
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?


Sven Konietzko wrote:
Am Sat, 15 Jul 2006 01:43:01 -0700 schrieb Dave:

2D barcode technology is well developed and used for example in
franking machines. There may be reasons why not to introduce the
technology such as to let dollar bills be the currency of corruption.

Dave.

Sorry, I just thought that RDIF tags could have a similar function- if
they could be given a unique signiature.


Do you mean RFID tags?

Yes.

  #25  
Old July 16th 06, 08:00 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
The Ghost In The Machine
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Posts: 1
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:24:21 +0100, Joe Random wrote:

Dave wrote:
Sorry, I just thought that RDIF tags could have a similar function- if
they could be given a unique signiature.


RDIF tags? Have never heard of them. Could you elaborate?

Joe R.


The proper acronym is probably "RFID", standing for Radio Frequency
IDentification.

These are small rice-sized units which are surrounded by a flat coil
antenna. I don't know if bills could hold them or not, though it's
theoretically possible. Cards can hold them easily; I've got one now for
access into my workplace, for example.

By construction all RFID tags should have a unique code. (Admittedly,
there's no real simple way to verify this.)

The plan is to tag everything in a warehouse or store with such a tag,
which would simplify inventory control. It also leads to some interesting
and rather troubling questions -- such as how does one really know that
the RFID sitting in one's shirt has been truly deactivated? (Assuming the
RFID's in the actual *shirt*, as opposed to the plastic ink-protector unit
designed to spray ink all over the fabric if removed without the special
tool.)

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

  #26  
Old July 17th 06, 01:25 AM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Dik T. Winter
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Posts: 299
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

In article .com "Dave" writes:
John Boyle wrote:

....
Quite. the point about bank notes is covered quite explicitly in Miller
v Race in which a bank refused to honour one of its notes that had been
stolen and had subsequently found its way to the plaintiff who acquired
it quite legitimately and in good faith. It was held that the bank was
still liable to the plaintiff on the note.


Thank you for your informative post. This leads onto a couple of
issues, the first of which may be worthy of a top level post in
uk.legal.
What about other countries in Europe do they all apply the same ruling?
i.e. harmonization of case law across the EU. This may be especially
relevant if the UK starts using the Euro.


I know that in the Netherlands, when you come in possession of stolen goods
and can show good faith, that you are the legitimate owner of the article,
irrespective of the article, so it can be a banknote. Just about a year
back in Amsterdam there was a similar case. A woman was found in
possession of a bicycle that had been reported as stolen. She was able
to show (convincing enough) that they had not bought the bicycle from a
junk for a low price, but that she had bought it as a second-hand
bicycle in a bicycle-shop. So she was legitimate owner of it, because
buying in a shop is considered to be in good faith.

But, on the other hand, there is nearly no harmonisation of case law
across the EU. In the Netherlands it is based on common law that
basically derives from the Code Napoleon.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #27  
Old July 17th 06, 07:49 AM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
john2
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Posts: 1
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:24:21 +0100, Joe Random wrote:


Dave wrote:

Sorry, I just thought that RDIF tags could have a similar function- if
they could be given a unique signiature.


RDIF tags? Have never heard of them. Could you elaborate?

Joe R.



The proper acronym is probably "RFID", standing for Radio Frequency
IDentification.

These are small rice-sized units which are surrounded by a flat coil
antenna. I don't know if bills could hold them or not, though it's
theoretically possible. Cards can hold them easily; I've got one now for
access into my workplace, for example.

By construction all RFID tags should have a unique code. (Admittedly,
there's no real simple way to verify this.)

The plan is to tag everything in a warehouse or store with such a tag,
which would simplify inventory control. It also leads to some interesting
and rather troubling questions -- such as how does one really know that
the RFID sitting in one's shirt has been truly deactivated? (Assuming the
RFID's in the actual *shirt*, as opposed to the plastic ink-protector unit
designed to spray ink all over the fabric if removed without the special
tool.)


RFID tags cost around 5 cents and are not very flexible mechanically.
What's wrong with the free barcode.

john2

  #28  
Old July 17th 06, 02:35 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Virgils Ghost
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Posts: 7
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message
. ..
The ECB are looking into RFID, I think it should have been in place by
now.


Here you go folks :-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5186650.stm


  #29  
Old July 17th 06, 02:50 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Peter Hucker
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Posts: 8
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:35:09 +0100, Virgils Ghost wrote:

"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message
. ..
The ECB are looking into RFID, I think it should have been in place by
now.


Here you go folks :-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5186650.stm


A dollar to protect a 2 dollar note?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A farmer drives his tractor away from the homestead when half a mile later his brake cable snaps.
He sees his wife on the porch and manages to catch her attention but is unable to make her hear what he is shouting.
However, he thinks she should understand what he wants if he uses sign language.
So he raises his hand above his head and starts to operate an imaginary pair of pliers, then opens and shuts an imaginary cupboard door and then puts the tips of his fingers together to indicate a shed roof.
His wife waves to him and then grasps both her breasts, then grabs her crotch and lastly lifts both her buttocks.
"Stupid woman", he mutters to himself. "Hasn't understood a thing". So he repeats his signals, but gets the same response.
Exasperated, he walks back to the homestead ready to berate his wife. "Didn't you understand a damn thing?' he asks.
"Yes", she says, "you wanted a pair of pliers from the cupboard in the shed. But what I was telling you was that there is a pair in the toolbox under the seat."
  #30  
Old July 17th 06, 05:25 PM posted to alt.conspiracy.new-world-order,rec.collecting.paper-money,alt.conspiracy,uk.finance,uk.legal
Chris Blunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:25:10 GMT, "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

I know that in the Netherlands, when you come in possession of stolen goods
and can show good faith, that you are the legitimate owner of the article,
irrespective of the article, so it can be a banknote. Just about a year
back in Amsterdam there was a similar case. A woman was found in
possession of a bicycle that had been reported as stolen. She was able
to show (convincing enough) that they had not bought the bicycle from a
junk for a low price, but that she had bought it as a second-hand
bicycle in a bicycle-shop. So she was legitimate owner of it, because
buying in a shop is considered to be in good faith.


That sounds like a reasonable argument for her not to be prosecuted
for being in possession of stolen goods. What surprises me is that she
was also then considered the legitimate owner. Presumably the original
owner who it was stolen from was denied that status.

Chris
 




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