Ebay is Unfair!

"Salty" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:


As for the eBay seller, more than likely he ran off with the money, and
I
think that is still a major reason why people are afraid of using it.
(credit card chargebacks not relevant for the purpose of that point)
When they guy took my $28.00, I sent payment via a money
order. It made it easy to prove I sent it, he got it, and deposited
it. I expect it would be just as easy, maybe easier, with a credit
card, but I wasn't using them at the time and haven't used one with
Paypal.

Credit cards are as easy for me, as a debit card. I am not a fan of
credit cards, and use them when I HAVE to. People use them because of the
protection they offer, but how ****ing cynical is that, to use a credit
card on the assumption you are probabaly going to have to make a
chargeback???


Yes. About as cynical as taking out medical/motor vehicle/life/household
insurance etc.

motor insurance is mandatory. You are forced to have it!

The rest is just good advice to have. Nobody actually expects to use them
(and Christ help you if you do). I wouldn't take a life insurance policy
expecting to drop dead soon after.


What is wrong with hoping for the best but being prepared for the worst?

I think you can do too much preparing to be honest. If you use reasonable
common sense, and buy products without randomly clicking, you'll have a
virtually sound internet shopping experience. The ones that fail to show up,
are often resolved. In the rare case they are not, well, it is hardly the
end of the world, and hardly worth considering as the worst possible
scenario.

Just so we're clear on this. A credit card does not ACTUALLY offer you
protection. What it does is safeguards the banks money. It is THEIRS
afterall. And the service comes at a price. For instance, you can get away
with 0% interest by continually switching credit card providers, but if you
pay the balance off in full, you ultimatley lose the incentive of
transferring to another card (freebies).



I have my main bank set up with PayPal, as it makes no difference what
account I use with it. I also have the main bank debit card set up there
too, and generally route payments from the card, not the bank. For the
purpose of this, bank means bank current account.

Somehow, as charge cards have the same protection as credit cards, this
seems to let the air out of your indignant "how ****ing cynical is..."

I have never referred to a Charge Card. They are, bascially credit cards
afterall, with the same kind of use. i.e the money is not yours...the only
difference being a much higher interest rate if you do not clear the balance
(and clearing the balance is the ultimate concept behind a charge card).

Debit Card is a entirely different concept.



As my savings account sweeps money out of the current account, it makes
no difference whether I have the current account on, or set up a new
account. Money is still money whichever account it comes out of.

Did you say something?

Clearly you do not understand the concept of money! That is, money that is
yours, and not the banks.




I set up a bank account solely for Paypal use. I don't
understand why people attach their primary banking account to Paypal.

It makes accounting easier.

How? Do you have to press a few more keys when entering data?

So you don't do figures either. That, figures. Pun intended.





Money comes and goes and is easier to see it at a glance (specifically,
for fiscal planning, month by month charts I get from the bank, money
in/money out).

Maybe more than just a glance is in order when involved in fiscal
planning.

Not really. In fact, no. If you know your own financial situation, then you
dont even need a glance.



PayPal are not going to start messing about until I make a purchase or
whatever I use paypal for and authorise them to make money change hands.

Hmmm. Seems to be the voice of inexperience talking here. Read the fine
print and Google PayPal and bank accounts.

The voice of inexperience of them dipping into my account? Maybe that's
because they CANNOT.

I'm not sure what your point proves here.

I have no idea what they do with US bank accounts, but the UK has different
rules, apparantly. I'm in the UK, with a English voice of "inexperience" of
US Bank accounts.


All of that said, I have never had a problem with PayPal. Maybe I just
read the fine print and follow the rules in areas where it benefits me to
do so.

Given you have argued the toss with me, then you must have had a problem.
How can someone who has had no problems argue with someone who has had no
problems? Do you even know what you're talking about?

I take that as a no. :-)

l2oberto




Regards

Salty

Roberto Pirezzi wrote:

Do you know I have no idea what I'm talking about?





It's obvious.

"clams casino" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:

Do you know I have no idea what I'm talking about?




It's obvious.

Makes perfect sense to me, but then, I don't use eBay. :-)

l2oberto

Roberto Pirezzi wrote:
"Salty" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:

As for the eBay seller, more than likely he ran off with the money, and
I
think that is still a major reason why people are afraid of using it.
(credit card chargebacks not relevant for the purpose of that point)
When they guy took my $28.00, I sent payment via a money
order. It made it easy to prove I sent it, he got it, and deposited
it. I expect it would be just as easy, maybe easier, with a credit
card, but I wasn't using them at the time and haven't used one with
Paypal.
Credit cards are as easy for me, as a debit card. I am not a fan of
credit cards, and use them when I HAVE to. People use them because of the
protection they offer, but how ****ing cynical is that, to use a credit
card on the assumption you are probabaly going to have to make a
chargeback???

Yes. About as cynical as taking out medical/motor vehicle/life/household
insurance etc.

motor insurance is mandatory. You are forced to have it!

Not so. Laws vary from country to country. In some it is only mandatory
to have cover for third party injury, in others for third party
property. I wouldn't drive around the block without full comprehensive
insurance.


The rest is just good advice to have. Nobody actually expects to use them
(and Christ help you if you do). I wouldn't take a life insurance policy
expecting to drop dead soon after.

What is wrong with hoping for the best but being prepared for the worst?

I think you can do too much preparing to be honest.

Are you normally so dishonest that you to feel a need to point it out on
those occasions when you are being honest?

I often wonder why people say that - it doesn't reflect well on them
(when considered carefully).


If you use reasonable
common sense, and buy products without randomly clicking, you'll have a
virtually sound internet shopping experience.

No amount of common sense can cover all eventualities. A little
preparation can help in those occasions when common sense doesn't do the
trick.

The ones that fail to show up,
are often resolved. In the rare case they are not, well, it is hardly the
end of the world, and hardly worth considering as the worst possible
scenario.

Just so we're clear on this. A credit card does not ACTUALLY offer you
protection.

It does in my case, I wouldn't have anything to do with them if they
didn't. The onus is on my bank to only provide funds that I approve.

Many people assume that if their credit card is compromised, that the
loss is theirs. It isn't, it is the bank's. Someone has tricked the bank
into parting with funds by pretending to be someone the bank trusts. The
bank might not make the offer to reimburse, and be quite happy to say
and do nothing if you accept that situation, but all banks that I am
aware of, reimburse unless they can prove negligence or fraud on the
part of the card holder. I am obligated to take reasonable care not to
allow my card to be misused, and to immediately report the matter if it
is lost or stolen, but the bank is obligated to ensure that any
transaction on my account is authorised by me, or accept that the loss
is theirs. They use methods that are convenient for them, but increase
risk at the same time as increasing income.

My bank, in the past thirty years or so, has several times had to
reimburse funds that were drawn against my account without my
authorisation. Credit card fraud has been around for a long time, it
didn't start with Internet shopping. In the old days it was as simple as
going through a restaurant's rubbish bins and looking for the carbons
from manual credit card transaction.

What it does is safeguards the banks money.

How does a credit card safeguard the bank's money? It exposes them to
more risk.

It is THEIRS
afterall. And the service comes at a price. For instance, you can get away
with 0% interest by continually switching credit card providers, but if you
pay the balance off in full, you ultimatley lose the incentive of
transferring to another card (freebies).

Amazing! CC provider roulette!


Not all people regard credit cards as a source of short term loans. I
pay whatever is outstanding in full on the same day each month. My
credit card is a convenience, not an overdraft.


I have my main bank set up with PayPal, as it makes no difference what
account I use with it. I also have the main bank debit card set up there
too, and generally route payments from the card, not the bank. For the
purpose of this, bank means bank current account.
Somehow, as charge cards have the same protection as credit cards, this
seems to let the air out of your indignant "how ****ing cynical is..."

I have never referred to a Charge Card.

Horses for course. What you refer to as a Debit Card, we refer to as a
charge card. Funds drawn straight from you bank account. One of my banks
calls them PayCards, the other Charge Cards.


They are, bascially credit cards
afterall, with the same kind of use. i.e the money is not yours...the only
difference being a much higher interest rate if you do not clear the balance
(and clearing the balance is the ultimate concept behind a charge card).

I think that you may be referring to Store Cards, cards issued by a
store rather than a bank. They are often referred to as store charge
cards. I have never used one, but my daughters all seem to have wallets
full of them.


Debit Card is a entirely different concept.

As my savings account sweeps money out of the current account, it makes
no difference whether I have the current account on, or set up a new
account. Money is still money whichever account it comes out of.
Did you say something?

Clearly you do not understand the concept of money! That is, money that is
yours, and not the banks.

I think that perhaps I might have an inkling or two. I have managed to
acquire a reasonable amount of it over the past decade or two.



I set up a bank account solely for Paypal use. I don't
understand why people attach their primary banking account to Paypal.
It makes accounting easier.
How? Do you have to press a few more keys when entering data?

So you don't do figures either. That, figures. Pun intended.

I do have an understanding of business accounting, which why I was
wondering why you regarded limiting bank accounts as "making accounting
easier". You want all of your expenses, gross and net income, taxes,
wages etc., to happily cohabit in one account? Cheque or savings? There
is a big difference. Taxes collected for monthly or quarterly payment
won't earn much in a cheque account, and most business savings accounts
don't offer cheque facilities. You can use one account of course, but
it makes for more work with your bookkeeping, particularly when
something doesn't balance. Simpler to keep the accounts separate.

I have a number of extra bank accounts for no other purpose than to make
accounting easier and make the most of the various features of different
account types. I would have to think very carefully just to work out how
many accounts I have. My account juggles them, I just nod in passing.

Most businesses, within my ken, operate a "set" of bank accounts, all
with appropriate ledgers, in order to have a clear and unmistakable
audit trail. You seem the lean in the opposite direction. Perhaps it is
you who doesn't "do figures" at least not in a businesslike manner.

Maybe you should contact the developers of the world's major accounting
software packages and tell them that they are doing it all wrong, that
businesses only need one bank account. I am sure that they'll appreciate
the savings that will flow from such a massive simplification of their
software.




Money comes and goes and is easier to see it at a glance (specifically,
for fiscal planning, month by month charts I get from the bank, money
in/money out).
Maybe more than just a glance is in order when involved in fiscal
planning.

Not really. In fact, no. If you know your own financial situation, then you
dont even need a glance.

Perhaps you have a very simple financial position.

With a business involved in purchasing and reselling both new and
second-hand goods, some modern, some antique, with import and export,
several different premises and a reasonable number of staff, the
superannuation for those staff, very complex and conflicting tax rules
applying to different transactions, import duties, excise taxes,
insurance, utilities, medical plans, staff vacations, etc., etc. it is
not possible to know your financial situation without "even needing" a
glance. I need an accountant and a junior bookkeeper as well as a some
good hardware and software. With all that in place, end of month
reports, tax reporting, cash flow projections etc., still take a lot
more than just "a glance".



PayPal are not going to start messing about until I make a purchase or
whatever I use paypal for and authorise them to make money change hands.
Hmmm. Seems to be the voice of inexperience talking here. Read the fine
print and Google PayPal and bank accounts.

There have been many reports of people having their accounts frozen for
sometimes weeks at a time by PayPal. They usually get access to their
money once the dispute is resolved. Read the fine print on the agreement
that PayPal requires before granting you the "privilege" of using their
services. My accountant's jaw nearly hit the floor when she read the
first one. You are authorising them to operate your account, they are
not doing anything illegal. It is not too dissimilar to giving a wife or
child access to your accounts, making them a signatory.


The voice of inexperience of them dipping into my account? Maybe that's
because they CANNOT.

Of course, I forgot. You are unique, nothing can touch you.

The agreements that others' worry about with PayPal, the thousands of
complaints that have been posted over the years, are all wrong. Everyone
made it up. PayPal has *never* frozen or taken funds from anyone's account.

I just Googled "PayPal bank account frozen/locked" and got 352,000 hits.
Other combinations give more. Amazing to think that every one of those
people is imagining things. If only they knew what you know, that PayPal
"CANNOT" touch their account, they could have posted about something
else - saved all that bandwidth.


I'm not sure what your point proves here.

Yes, I am sure that you are not sure.


I have no idea what they do with US bank accounts, but the UK has different
rules, apparantly. I'm in the UK, with a English voice of "inexperience" of
US Bank accounts.

I work in both the UK and the US. I have bank accounts and interests in
businesses on both continents.


All of that said, I have never had a problem with PayPal. Maybe I just
read the fine print and follow the rules in areas where it benefits me to
do so.

Given you have argued the toss with me, then you must have had a problem.

Why?

I can hold an opinion on abortion without ever being a pregnant woman, I
can argue about dieting without ever having been fat, I can argue about
liquor laws without ever having been an alcoholic.

Your reasoning isn't reasonable.

How can someone who has had no problems argue with someone who has had no
problems?

Would you like to try that one again?


Do you even know what you're talking about?

Nothing of consequence. I am talking about you, your business opinions
and some of the weaknesses they contain.


I take that as a no. :-)

You can take it as a Rhubarb Sandwich if it pleases you to do so, it
will not change what it really is.


Regards

Salty

"Salty" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:
"Salty" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:
snip

I work in both the UK and the US. I have bank accounts and interests in
businesses on both continents.

And you don't have paypal dipping into your account either.



All of that said, I have never had a problem with PayPal. Maybe I just
read the fine print and follow the rules in areas where it benefits me
to do so.

Given you have argued the toss with me, then you must have had a problem.

Why?

I can hold an opinion on abortion without ever being a pregnant woman, I
can argue about dieting without ever having been fat, I can argue about
liquor laws without ever having been an alcoholic.

Not really seen an opinion from you yet. Your best


Your reasoning isn't reasonable.

How can someone who has had no problems argue with someone who has had no
problems?

Would you like to try that one again?

Exactly what is it you are arguing with me about???

You claim to have interests in the UK financial scene, yet inform me prior
to that "In the US, a debit card is a charge card" - a point I snipped, as
if you have interests in the UK, that aspect of your post was pointless!
Given my earlier post(s), to which you replied informed you I live in the
UK, it is rather irrelevant to inform me of US methods, if you have UK
knowledge.

I snipped the business garbage out, as again, irrelevant. I've never made a
single point about being in business, in fact, on the contrary, I have made
it clear in other posts (to Kent I think) I am not.

Given neither of us has had any issues with PayPal, yet it is the one thing
you have failed to agree on in favour of arguing over the most insane
points, makes me question, why you are unable to simply, agree.


Do you even know what you're talking about?

Nothing of consequence. I am talking about you, your business opinions and
some of the weaknesses they contain.

My business opinions have never even been mentioned. This is a eBay thread,
I am no longer in business. Irrelevant to any discussion, as past business
knowledge doesnt coincide with the current system, and i'm not about to
argue a point that I paid 0% in corporation tax (for example) when that is
no longer possible to do under the same circumstances!

How you get from my saying I use my main account linked to paypal, to
yapping on about excise duties and accountancy software, is beyond me.

I buy cheap items on the net. End of story really. I can't see how you are
getting all your points from such simplistic statements!





I take that as a no. :-)

You can take it as a Rhubarb Sandwich if it pleases you to do so, it will
not change what it really is.


Regards

Salty

The fact is, you have absolutley no idea what this discussion is all about.
And quite frankly, you lost me in your jibber-jabber about unrelated things.

l2oberto

As I understand it, on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:22 +0100, "Roberto
Pirezzi" wrote:

[snips for brevity]


That's not much, but is that a reflection of ALL transactions?

Almost all wins, yes. There may be one or two that didn't
leave feedback.

I didnt intend to imply 42 was "poor". I was talking figuratively speaking,
that 42 wasnt a high number to really asscertain a true statistic. The
higher it goes, the better.

True. But I can only go with the numbers I have. I don't use
eBay much.


I don't *know* how many auctions I've bid on, if you're
wondering about that. My guess is around 50. I've definitely bid on
more auctions than I've won.
I'll determine what an item is worth to me, and set my max bid
accordingly. If the auction goes above what I am willing to pay, so
be it.
I've never sold anything on eBay, so that can't factor in.

All mine were purchases. Not all purchases were for me, I did a spell where
I bid on behalf of my aunt who had no computer, but as I paid, and received,
I factored those in too (they are on my record afterall).

Makes perfect sense.


The way I bid, was 99% snipe at the last minute, which in those days, saved
me a lot of money, as I'd get bids in rock bottom - I hate bidding early as
that created immediate obvious interest, and also bidding early can prompt a
shill bidder.

I get what you're saying about bidding the max, and I agree, bidding as much
as you are willing to pay is a good way to do it. I just like bidding late
to bid way below my max and win :-). Everyone is different. I'd hate it if
people did that to me all the time and I was a seller. That's kinda my
entire point made earlier about the "arrogance" of it not happening. I'm
just not the kind of person who would say something without accepting the
opposing fact.

Again, I don't think the post was meant to be arrogant in any
way. Of course, only the person who made the post can say for
certain, and he hasn't been posting to this thread since we started
posting between ourselves.

[...]



I think a lot of people DO NOT think they will get items, and that's a
primary cause for the slagging off of eBay from that angle. (same for
other
sites too).


Why would someone bid if they thought they wouldn't get the
item?

Because we live in a cynical world, I can't understand why someone would pay
using a credit card on the expectation they will need to make a chargeback,
as Salty said, "expect the worst" lol.


I hope they aren't using it *expecting* to have to make a
charge back. Maybe they use it "just in case."

[...]



I don't think they use a credit card presuming they will have
to file a chargeback, but they use one in case they have to.

There are really 3 reasons why someone would use a credit card:

A) Not enough money in their actual accounts - monthly salaries, and close
to payday being the general norm for lack of surplus cash.

B) The incentives a CC offers (airmiles, etc)

That's the main reason I use my American Express Delta. Every
year it pays for me and the wife to fly to Aruba on Delta Air. We
have to pay for the kids, but it's easier when our tickets are free.


C) Chargeback Protection


The protection is a nice perk. Especially if it ever becomes
needed.

[...]


As my savings account sweeps money out of the current account, it makes no
difference whether I have the current account on, or set up a new account.
Money is still money whichever account it comes out of.


I use a special account just in case.
If something goes wrong, and Paypal takes out everything from
the account, I'll only be out a few hundred dollars while the matter
gets cleared up.

In the UK, it is prohibited for someone to dip into account without
authorisation. If the UK Government cannot do that, PayPal most certainly
cannot.

It's illegal here as well, but that doesn't mean it can't
happen.
Murder is illegal as well, but having been inside the Cook
County Morgue, I can assure you, it does. Or rather it did in the
early 1990s. I left the funeral industry in 1993, so while I'm sure
there are many murder victims to be found inside CCM, I can't honestly
say I KNOW there are.


If they are owed money by me, then they do what every other does, and tries
to threaten me with court action! Courts and debt collectors exist for a
reason.


I've never had to deal with a collection agency, but I've
heard stories.
In the U.S. it's pretty easy to avoid them. Write a cease and
desist letter and they're *supposed* to stop all contact until a law
suit has been filed.



I set up a bank account solely for Paypal use. I don't
understand why people attach their primary banking account to Paypal.

It makes accounting easier.

I've had no trouble so far. Of course, I don't do my own
accounting. If God intended for me to do it, he wouldn't have
invented CPAs :-)

I've always done my own figures...It's just easier, and I come from a
background of finance people (my Dad was a auditor). So, in my blood I
guess!

My sister is a CPA. She does our accounting as Lin doesn't
really understand it, and I don't like it.
For those who enjoy it, great! I **HATED** accounting class.
I could do everything, but I did NOT like it. Not one bit.
And no, I have no idea why I dispose it so much.


Most people might pull out some coins from their pocket, count them and say
they have 54p. I can do the same and tell you how I got the 54p and how much
exactly I have in my accounts.

I couldn't even tell you where I got the coins in my pocket,
other than to say I got them as change from some place.
I suppose if I really thought about it, I could name the
various places I got change, but I don't think I could say, I got 15
cents from store A and 12 cents from store B.

It's sometimes a curse, especially when my
daughter wants some pocket money. I'm pretty strict about it. Spend it
wisely, and dont ask your mother for anymore! (Wife has a habit of being
sweet talked into parting with a tenner).

Reverse the roles, and you have my family. Of course, our
daughter is only eight months old, so she doesn't ask for
anything...yet
Our son... The less said, the less I look like a softy




Money comes and goes and is easier to see it at a glance (specifically,
for
fiscal planning, month by month charts I get from the bank, money in/money
out).

Personally, I've never had a problem paying seeing
transactions from any of the accounts.

I do have a few accounts, but I have specific transactions on some of them,
to keep them totally seperate. Like, I have a personal account that I use
for magazine subscriptions for the family. It may sound pointless, but we
all contribute money to it (part time jobs, any extra I make doing other
work etc). Easier to see THAT account at a glance, rather than see it in the
main account.


I fully understand.
Our rental account is separate from our joint account, which
is separate from mine and Lin's personal accounts, and my Paypal
account.

[...]


I've read some horror stories about Paypal. I have no way to
know if they are true or not, but I figure there's no gain in taking a
risk I don't need to take.

Well, things CAN happen, but they don't usually do.

To date, I've had no trouble. This doesn't mean something
can't go amiss in the future. I don't sit here fretting about what
*could* happen, since there is no gain in doing so.
*If* it does, I'll deal with it then. Since Paypal is
attached to a separate account that has never had more than $500.00 at
any one time, it won't be enough to make me go crazy with fear and
anger.


If you read the press about Ryanair for example, you may think they should
be avoided. Take it from me, they are the best airline I've used, and cheap
too! They also had much higher reliability times than British Airways.


I've never flown either one. We fly Delta as often as
possible.
I have no idea why I am so Pro-Delta (I used them long before
I got the AmEx Delta card). I don't think they're any better or worse
than any other airline. Still, I always pick Delta if I have a
choice.

I think horror stories are often the cause of the unexpected actually
happening. To the extent it makes peoples blood boil.

IF PayPal went into my bank account without my authorisation, my bank would
cover it, as it is considered fraud.

It would likely fall under fraud here as well (I've not kept
up on applicable laws and regulations to the degree I could and
should).


Most people dont speak to the right people when things go wrong. The other
thing I have to say on this is, when people do find something go wrong, on a
normally reliable channel, it generally goes THAT wrong, it's hard to see
how it was so reliable to begin with.

Their view is tainted, in the short term at least, but the
negative experience. I expect everyone has experienced this a time or
two in their lives.


Someone losing one parcel on eBay, doesnt mean the whole system is flawed,
but amazingly, it does create that kinda mindset with people.

Strange, but true. According to feedbacks i've read :-)

If a seller has 2000 feedback, and only 2% are neutral or
negative, it's a good seller.
In the case where I was ripped off, it's clear others were as
well. This only means this one seller was flawed. It didn't soil my
view of eBay. And other than using Paypal whenever possible, nothing
else has changed with my eBaying.


l2oberto


BTW, I really like how you write Roberto. I've been meaning
to mention that.
Nothing major, I know, but it definitely makes you stand out.


--
Kent
Recuerdo del Fin Del Mundo!

I thought this was an ANTI- ebay group!

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Kim" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Hi. My name is Kim and I was a powerseller on eBay. My account was
canceled for no apparent reason give, then an eBay representative wrote
to
me and instructed me to fax certain documentation in then my account
would
be reinstated. I did so but my account was not reinstated. Now I have no
income and it is due to eBay's unfair policies and business practices.
They cancel your account and don't even explain why --- meanwhile I have
lost, no doubt just like many others and owe Fed Ex fees, DHL fees which
are due at the end of the month--of which I could have paid had my bids
and account not been canceled. They, eBay gave no reason why but just
exerted their "No ask..no tell why your account is being suspended".

Also, when I click on the above link to see a "printable copy" of the
lawsuit, a blank screen comes up. I would like to see a copy of that
lawsuit.

I have also been contacted by at least 9 - 10 others who need an
attorney
along with myself, to sue eBay for the unfair business practices. I was
referred to Suzanna Gal from the San Jose District Attorney's Office,
but
only after sending all my relevant paperwork and evidence to her, did
she
not even respond and has done absolutely nothing on the case. She is a
foreigner and I have trouble understanding her English. I have nothing
against foreigners but I simply cannot understand her...only that she
did
nothing on my case as well as many others, and she closed the case not
explaining to me what she did at all on my case. She only said "I cannot
force eBay into mediation"??? I wanted to see her office take much
needed
prosecution and swift, harsh legal action against eBay..What a total
waste
of time her office was. I even wrote to her supervisor and he sent me a
dear-john letter....nothing was ever done on my case. These people from
the DA's office are just as lazy and illegal in their conduct as eBay
is.

We---myself and at least 10 others need a great attorney in that area or
whomever in the correction jurisdication has the know-how and much
needed
follow-thru to sue eBay.

They have hurt me and damaged me for the last time! I have outstanding
bills and monetary obligations and I was doing great on eBay.

The other matter regarding eBay's outrageous feedback & shill-bidding
policies need to be filed within this same lawsuit.

Someone contact me for serious legal action against eBay. We (all 10 of
us) need a diligent, ethical attorney who will give eBay what they need
most---a kick in their legally constipated ass!

Kim

Life is often unfair. The thing called eBay is not a God-given right
bestowed upon people who have chosen to use it to make money for
themselves.
People who have woven their financial existance around eBay should recall
what life was like for them BE. How did they manage to earn a living?
If
you want to use eBay, you've gotta play by their rules and accept their
whims-- agree with them or not. If they kick you off for an unexplained
reason and you've got to find another way to sell your stuff, it's not
much
different than getting booted out of the local country club where you made
all your business contacts. You should never have come to depend so much
on
eBay to the extent you want to sue them if you feel they wronged you. But
go ahead, if that's what you feel you need to do. And good luck, unless
you
manage to shut it down and spoil it for the rest of us who still enjoy it
as
a fun and valuable tool for hobbyists and collectors.

Bruce

Roberto Pirezzi wrote:


My business opinions have never even been mentioned.

You raised the issue of accounting, claimed that people linked paypal to
their bank accounts to make accounting simpler. Wasn't that a business
opinion? I can't imagine anyone who isn't in business having any
interest or concern with accounting.

This is a eBay thread,
I am no longer in business.

My tax advisor tells me that my income from ebay is considered business
income.

Irrelevant to any discussion, as past business
knowledge doesnt coincide with the current system, and i'm not about to
argue a point that I paid 0% in corporation tax (for example) when that is
no longer possible to do under the same circumstances!

How you get from my saying I use my main account linked to paypal, to
yapping on about excise duties and accountancy software, is beyond me.

Salty must have far too much free time on his hands because it is
apparent to anyone that most things are beyond you, and he really
doesn't need to keep making you prove it. Salty can often be funny, but
at times like this he needs to learn when to let it drop. You and your
responses aren't entertaining and aren't helpful, you lack the dry wit
that people like Lumpy, Don, Salty and a few others display. You are a
boring, pedantic, unimaginative and self contradictory man.

Now, as some may see, I am not having a great day and a few minutes
reading amoe in the hope of some light relief didn't help. Sometimes it
can be quite entertaining, but not today.

Sam

"Samantha Montague" wrote in message
...
Roberto Pirezzi wrote:


My business opinions have never even been mentioned.

You raised the issue of accounting, claimed that people linked paypal to
their bank accounts to make accounting simpler. Wasn't that a business
opinion? I can't imagine anyone who isn't in business having any interest
or concern with accounting.

No, it was not a business opinion.

Accounting refers to issues involving finance. Ever wondered WHY it is
called a Bank ACCOUNT?

But if I was too vague, then I apologise.


This is a eBay thread,
I am no longer in business.

My tax advisor tells me that my income from ebay is considered business
income.

But I am NOT a seller! (read the thread).

And your tax advisor is incorrect (for simple definition) - at least from a
UK perpective. Income from eBay is taxable under normal taxation. i.e
supposed to be declared income.

It can apply as business income under other situations - i.e if it is proven
in court, the way you conduct sales is deemed to be in the way of trade or
business (invoices and such) - but then you become a "business", and no
longer deemed a private individual.


Irrelevant to any discussion, as past business
knowledge doesnt coincide with the current system, and i'm not about to
argue a point that I paid 0% in corporation tax (for example) when that
is no longer possible to do under the same circumstances!

How you get from my saying I use my main account linked to paypal, to
yapping on about excise duties and accountancy software, is beyond me.

Salty must have far too much free time on his hands because it is apparent
to anyone that most things are beyond you, and he really doesn't need to
keep making you prove it. Salty can often be funny, but at times like this
he needs to learn when to let it drop. You and your responses aren't
entertaining and aren't helpful, you lack the dry wit that people like
Lumpy, Don, Salty and a few others display. You are a boring, pedantic,
unimaginative and self contradictory man.

Actually, my wit is acidic. And if I annoy people like you, I'm doing
something right. Fact is, I don't sell on eBay, and i'm not in business - so
how exactly is Salty's reply of any relevance?

I'm not saying Salty's comments are not fuelled with knowledge. It's just
not knowledge that is relevant to this specific discussion, but I would be
happy to discuss any of them on another thread!

However, it seems even attempting to keep to topic has caused some outrage!


Now, as some may see, I am not having a great day and a few minutes
reading amoe in the hope of some light relief didn't help. Sometimes it
can be quite entertaining, but not today.

Sam


It entertains me just fine! and I am not your problem! Unless you don't like
people who dont sell on eBay, then I guess I am the evil darkness.

l2oberto

"Kent Wills" wrote in message
...
As I understand it, on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:13:22 +0100, "Roberto
Pirezzi" wrote:

[snips for brevity]


That's not much, but is that a reflection of ALL transactions?

Almost all wins, yes. There may be one or two that didn't
leave feedback.

I didnt intend to imply 42 was "poor". I was talking figuratively
speaking,
that 42 wasnt a high number to really asscertain a true statistic. The
higher it goes, the better.

True. But I can only go with the numbers I have. I don't use
eBay much.

I accept that, and there is nothing wrong with that. You have gained some
knowledge of past transactions to be comfortable enough to form a valid
statistic, and that's all that really matters.



I don't *know* how many auctions I've bid on, if you're
wondering about that. My guess is around 50. I've definitely bid on
more auctions than I've won.
I'll determine what an item is worth to me, and set my max bid
accordingly. If the auction goes above what I am willing to pay, so
be it.
I've never sold anything on eBay, so that can't factor in.

All mine were purchases. Not all purchases were for me, I did a spell
where
I bid on behalf of my aunt who had no computer, but as I paid, and
received,
I factored those in too (they are on my record afterall).

Makes perfect sense.

I prefer to be as open as possible, so the discussion has some measurement
of fact. Just makes it easier to understand that's all.



The way I bid, was 99% snipe at the last minute, which in those days,
saved
me a lot of money, as I'd get bids in rock bottom - I hate bidding early
as
that created immediate obvious interest, and also bidding early can prompt
a
shill bidder.

I get what you're saying about bidding the max, and I agree, bidding as
much
as you are willing to pay is a good way to do it. I just like bidding late
to bid way below my max and win :-). Everyone is different. I'd hate it if
people did that to me all the time and I was a seller. That's kinda my
entire point made earlier about the "arrogance" of it not happening. I'm
just not the kind of person who would say something without accepting the
opposing fact.

Again, I don't think the post was meant to be arrogant in any
way. Of course, only the person who made the post can say for
certain, and he hasn't been posting to this thread since we started
posting between ourselves.

I'm the kind of person who will leave **** on someone's doorstep and watch
someone tread in it. Not literally of course, but provokation has a general
habit of finding out more about someone, and how they react to being called
arrogant to that comment, they could have explained it in more depth, they
chose not to. Enough people defended the poster though, always amusing to me
lol.


[...]



I think a lot of people DO NOT think they will get items, and that's a
primary cause for the slagging off of eBay from that angle. (same for
other
sites too).


Why would someone bid if they thought they wouldn't get the
item?

Well, one example is randomness purchasing - I've known my wife to get a
damn big box of trinkets delivered, and a puzzled look on her face, only to
realise, ahh, yes..I remember now. I'm not saying I married a shopaholic,
but sometimes people buy and forget they bought.

To really answer your question though, is once again cynical. People think
too negatively. Why they bid, is down to hope, and wishful thinking. Most
items turn up, not all sellers are schmucks.


Because we live in a cynical world, I can't understand why someone would
pay
using a credit card on the expectation they will need to make a
chargeback,
as Salty said, "expect the worst" lol.


I hope they aren't using it *expecting* to have to make a
charge back. Maybe they use it "just in case."

I woudnt use it for pocket-change items, as even if I did require the use of
charge back, for the paltry sum, it just wouldnt be worth the hassle.

I think Ive said it, not sure if I sent the post, but I do usually make
larger purchases on credit card, and of course international purchases
(small change or not, cant use any other method for many international
purchases).


[...]



I don't think they use a credit card presuming they will have
to file a chargeback, but they use one in case they have to.

There are really 3 reasons why someone would use a credit card:

A) Not enough money in their actual accounts - monthly salaries, and close
to payday being the general norm for lack of surplus cash.

B) The incentives a CC offers (airmiles, etc)

That's the main reason I use my American Express Delta. Every
year it pays for me and the wife to fly to Aruba on Delta Air. We
have to pay for the kids, but it's easier when our tickets are free.


My guess is pocket change items wouldn't cover the milegage from gate to
runway lol

I totally accept WHY you do use it though, as that is a great incentive.
Some would say you end up spending more to save the cost of flights, but it
actually evens itself out to being in your favour. Especially if you only
spend on CC what you'd spend anyway.



C) Chargeback Protection


The protection is a nice perk. Especially if it ever becomes
needed.

Like anything, when used, it's great. And I agree, it is a nice thing to
have IF you need it.


[...]


As my savings account sweeps money out of the current account, it makes
no
difference whether I have the current account on, or set up a new
account.
Money is still money whichever account it comes out of.


I use a special account just in case.
If something goes wrong, and Paypal takes out everything from
the account, I'll only be out a few hundred dollars while the matter
gets cleared up.

In the UK, it is prohibited for someone to dip into account without
authorisation. If the UK Government cannot do that, PayPal most certainly
cannot.

It's illegal here as well, but that doesn't mean it can't
happen.

The point is, it can only be a glitch, and a glitch reimbursement.

Having paid for 4 meals in a restaurant on our anniversary, when neither of
us ate that many, and neither of brought secret lovers, I was rather
annoyed!!! Call to bank, all sorted. I agree, it can cause problems in
"limbo" if the current balance is used to settle other debts, which cannot
be settled, but it is even rarer for banks not to reimburse and sort that
out, than the actual overpaying in the first place.

Murder is illegal as well, but having been inside the Cook
County Morgue, I can assure you, it does. Or rather it did in the
early 1990s. I left the funeral industry in 1993, so while I'm sure
there are many murder victims to be found inside CCM, I can't honestly
say I KNOW there are.

But it is still a rare occurance, not that being dead has any real
advantages, but at least if paypal dips their hand where it doesnt belong,
someone will give it a smack.



If they are owed money by me, then they do what every other does, and
tries
to threaten me with court action! Courts and debt collectors exist for a
reason.


I've never had to deal with a collection agency, but I've
heard stories.
In the U.S. it's pretty easy to avoid them. Write a cease and
desist letter and they're *supposed* to stop all contact until a law
suit has been filed.

I'm not that familiar with the UK system either, I do know that generally,
courts tend to be used for the purpose of debts, i.e CCJ (County Court
Judgement). I suppose a collection agency will lay it on thick to put the
****s up people, maybe the cease and desist letter works here, I'm not sure
if people are all that clued up about it. Might be worth looking into for
the sake of knowledge I guess. You never know when you need to know things!




I set up a bank account solely for Paypal use. I don't
understand why people attach their primary banking account to Paypal.

It makes accounting easier.

I've had no trouble so far. Of course, I don't do my own
accounting. If God intended for me to do it, he wouldn't have
invented CPAs :-)

I've always done my own figures...It's just easier, and I come from a
background of finance people (my Dad was a auditor). So, in my blood I
guess!

My sister is a CPA. She does our accounting as Lin doesn't
really understand it, and I don't like it.
For those who enjoy it, great! I **HATED** accounting class.
I could do everything, but I did NOT like it. Not one bit.
And no, I have no idea why I dispose it so much.

Frankie is the same, she has not much clue when it comes to understanding
the ins and outs of money and accounts, so she trusts me to handle it, and
that's fine with me, like I said, my background is better suited to it.

Speaking of classes, as is plainly obvious, I am of Italian origin, but I
don't speak much of it, for the reason being, my Mother is British, and my
Dad didn't bother speaking Italian around the "family" here. IF there was a
class in school for Italian, I'd have took it, but as I got older, and
relied less and less on the need to speak it, would be too late to start
now. Frankie is also of Italian heritage, but it's her Mother who is
Italian, and ended up in the same situation as me. Or eldest, speaks Spanish
(spanish offered in school), so we have an Italian kid who speaks (fairly)
fluent Spanish lol

Back to you, sorry...I can see WHY people hate accounting, but true
accounting (i.e Chartered Accounting) is more to do with logic than numbers.

I mean, I can look at all my figures and come to a end sum for Tax purposes
(if I didnt pay them through employment), but I couldn't tell you the logic
to ALL the ways to saving Tax payments. That is why I am a manager in
distribution (I even have supplied trinkets to companies I've later bought
off!) and not sat in a office with Roberto C. Pirezzi ACA on my door lol.

But the main point is that you obviously found something you enjoyed doing,
and thats more important than doing what you didn't like :-)



Most people might pull out some coins from their pocket, count them and
say
they have 54p. I can do the same and tell you how I got the 54p and how
much
exactly I have in my accounts.

I couldn't even tell you where I got the coins in my pocket,
other than to say I got them as change from some place.
I suppose if I really thought about it, I could name the
various places I got change, but I don't think I could say, I got 15
cents from store A and 12 cents from store B.

Well, with the pace of life now, I rarely actually pull out coins from my
pocket and work out where they came from (technically, the royal mint in
Wales lol). I suppose, I couldn't really do it either, I had 31p in my
pocket yesterday and I knew that came from kwik-save in Buxton, as the item
was 69p and I gave a pound coin. lol


It's sometimes a curse, especially when my
daughter wants some pocket money. I'm pretty strict about it. Spend it
wisely, and dont ask your mother for anymore! (Wife has a habit of being
sweet talked into parting with a tenner).

Reverse the roles, and you have my family. Of course, our
daughter is only eight months old, so she doesn't ask for
anything...yet
Our son... The less said, the less I look like a softy

Our 3 are all teenagers now, hence the previous point about pace, and they
are all going through their teen phases, wanting rides here and there,
sooner our eldest gets her own car the better for me. Worse for me, is she
has a boyfriend who doesn't drive, and I am not a fan of him by any stretch
of the imagination. I told her, that boy is a ****ing loser. She says "Well,
he's MY ****ing loser". Watch your language or your mother will ground you.
Hypocritical I know. I have a tendency to swear. Do as I say, not do as I
do.





Money comes and goes and is easier to see it at a glance (specifically,
for
fiscal planning, month by month charts I get from the bank, money
in/money
out).

Personally, I've never had a problem paying seeing
transactions from any of the accounts.

I do have a few accounts, but I have specific transactions on some of
them,
to keep them totally seperate. Like, I have a personal account that I use
for magazine subscriptions for the family. It may sound pointless, but we
all contribute money to it (part time jobs, any extra I make doing other
work etc). Easier to see THAT account at a glance, rather than see it in
the
main account.


I fully understand.
Our rental account is separate from our joint account, which
is separate from mine and Lin's personal accounts, and my Paypal
account.


I like joint accounts as it seems like a LOT of money comes in to it!!!

2 sets of wages, both paid monthly....looks good!

We do have another account for Frankie's Car Payments, forgot about that
one!! Not sure why we originally set that up, think it was to keep that
entirely seperate, plus at the start she had a second job which she used to
help pay for the car.

[...]


I've read some horror stories about Paypal. I have no way to
know if they are true or not, but I figure there's no gain in taking a
risk I don't need to take.

Well, things CAN happen, but they don't usually do.

To date, I've had no trouble. This doesn't mean something
can't go amiss in the future. I don't sit here fretting about what
*could* happen, since there is no gain in doing so.
*If* it does, I'll deal with it then. Since Paypal is
attached to a separate account that has never had more than $500.00 at
any one time, it won't be enough to make me go crazy with fear and
anger.

It would be sods law for paypal to dip in on payday. Thats the only day the
account has a grandeur figure in it. Day before payday, very little. £0-100,
sweep to savings takes the majority of surplus.



If you read the press about Ryanair for example, you may think they should
be avoided. Take it from me, they are the best airline I've used, and
cheap
too! They also had much higher reliability times than British Airways.


I've never flown either one. We fly Delta as often as
possible.
I have no idea why I am so Pro-Delta (I used them long before
I got the AmEx Delta card). I don't think they're any better or worse
than any other airline. Still, I always pick Delta if I have a
choice.

We dont have a favourite really, as not all the good ones fly to where we
want to go...Always use Ryanair for Dublin, as they are the cheapest,
compared to AerLingus. (and we get there 5 minutes before they do lol). We
also use them for our trips from Dublin to Oslo in Norway (week in each)

Paris, requires a trip to a different airport to use JET2.COM who, are
basically in the same class as ryanair.

I've used easyjet who are crap. bmibaby to Prague, who were above average.

Treated ourselves to virgin for Las Vegas (****ing 5 Grand upgrade to
business class. One way). I ended up winning (profit of) just over $20,000
in the casinos, so luck was with me.

AirCanada to BC, reasonably good, but the price was a bit much for the
service. AirTransat to Toronto (dirt cheap,and fantastic service). Used BMI
(not bmibaby) a few times and found them to be hit and miss. One lot of bags
ended up in Mexico. BMI flights to the States. Thomas Cook to Montreal, very
good, lot of legroom, but the poorer 757 (poorer in the sense, much noiser
than the Airbus).

I rated concorde quite highly, mainly for travel time, but agreed it is a
aircraft that reached it's age. I dont recall it being all that cheap
either.

It really depends where we are going.





I think horror stories are often the cause of the unexpected actually
happening. To the extent it makes peoples blood boil.

IF PayPal went into my bank account without my authorisation, my bank
would
cover it, as it is considered fraud.

It would likely fall under fraud here as well (I've not kept
up on applicable laws and regulations to the degree I could and
should).





Most people dont speak to the right people when things go wrong. The other
thing I have to say on this is, when people do find something go wrong, on
a
normally reliable channel, it generally goes THAT wrong, it's hard to see
how it was so reliable to begin with.

Their view is tainted, in the short term at least, but the
negative experience. I expect everyone has experienced this a time or
two in their lives.

I agree, our favourite restaurant served us a cold meal, and it was that
dissapointing to us we stopped using it (wife's 30th birthday, so ruined her
day), and I guess the taint factor is dependant upon the reason for making
the purchase. Say it's a gift that doesnt arrive, then someone else besides
you has been let down, doubling the taint factor.



Someone losing one parcel on eBay, doesnt mean the whole system is flawed,
but amazingly, it does create that kinda mindset with people.

Strange, but true. According to feedbacks i've read :-)

If a seller has 2000 feedback, and only 2% are neutral or
negative, it's a good seller.

I actually think some people "Invent" item losses because they think they
can get away with it from some sellers. Feedback saying NEG. Never Arrived,
doesnt tell me if the seller refunded or not, or even if the buyer contacted
the seller about it.

In the case where I was ripped off, it's clear others were as
well. This only means this one seller was flawed. It didn't soil my
view of eBay. And other than using Paypal whenever possible, nothing
else has changed with my eBaying.

For me, I stopped buying because I continually found items I wanted
elsewhere cheaper, and so, every other place got the sales and ebay lost a
lot. Not their fault, not the sellers fault, just the way the game played
out!



l2oberto


BTW, I really like how you write Roberto. I've been meaning
to mention that.
Nothing major, I know, but it definitely makes you stand out.

There is a story behind it (I hear the groans).

Our daughter is called Rachela, and it's become a thing for us to sign our
name "l2" on cards and notes. It's just stuck. She started it! I even sign
my cheques that way lol maybe that is too much info!

You could get away with lent....OK..maybe not LOL

But thanks for comment, nice to know someone noticed it. I'm sure my
nonsense makes me stand out even more though lol

Cheers

l2oberto



--
Kent
Recuerdo del Fin Del Mundo!