More "NudoMania"

This time he's trying to hawk 1¢ 78s for big bucks!

Here's a line of **** from his 78 auction:

NOTHING SOUNDS AS ORIGINAL AND LIFELIKE AS A SHELLAC RECORD PLAYED ON
A HIGH-END TURNTABLE ! AUDIOPHILES AGREE !

Show me ONE "audiophool", Noodles, that says ANY 78, except for the
MATRIX, sounds "good" at all!

These 78s were all chart toppers in their day, and have NO collector
value at all. 78s only have collector value when they're VERY old
(Berliner discs), or VERY rare. Even "near mint" shellacs by Sinatra
et al aren't worth anything, because so many were pressed, there are
still TONS of "near mint" examples around...and they all sound the
same...like ****!

Noodles...incompetent, stupid, larcenous. The USA deserves to
collapse, if this idiot represents 51% of the populace! The smart
among us can go join Canada!

dB

I have a couple of Victrolas, a Sonora, and a Birch picnic phonograph. I enjoy
playing 78s, especially old opera recordings. But it has nothing to do, really
with fidelity. There's a sense of fun and history playing them. And also a
sense of authenticity sometimes--Caruso didn't live to see electrical
recording, so playing him back acoustically seems right. And maybe, considering
he was recorded acoustically, it's the best you're going to get anyway.
The old shellac 78s had abrasive built into them. There were no standards
yet (not even for speed; many "78s" aren't even really 78 rpm) including for
needle groove and needle size, and the needles were soft steel designed to be
used *once.* The abrasive in the record was there to shape the needle to fit
the groove. Look at one after it's played a side--it's now chisel-shaped. Using
it again slowly destroys the next record, which often shows up as a pile of
dust ahead of the needle in the groove. Now, I don't care how high-end your
turntable is, you're not going to get "LIFELIKE" out of a record that's got
abrasive built right in.
Part of the fun with playing 78s is that they're dirt cheap. I've had people
*give* me entire boxes of 78s at yard sales when all I really wanted was one or
two. They just want them out of their house to free up the space. Unfortunately
that saddles me with boxes of stuff that doesn't interest me . . .
As for rarity, what dB says is correct. I've met people that think they've
got a goldmine with old Caruso 78s. Nope. Caruso was the most popular singer
of his day. It's especially funny when they think it's more rare because it's
one-sided. Victor, with marketing savvy, kept the Red Label records one-sided
long after the rest of their lines were two-sided. Why? Because they could sell
more records that way. The records that *are* rare are the old black blues
artists. Alarming as it may sound now, in those days white artists were usually
one one label, black artists on another (with notable exceptions). You wouldn't
even find them being sold in the same record shop. That means most of those
blues 78s ended up in poor southern and urban areas. And believe me, collectors
have already been door-to-door down there looking for them. Think you're going
to find Robert Johnson mixed in with a bunch of Sammy Kaye records? Think
again.
Some records will generate mild interest. I've got a 78 of Rhapsody in Blue
done by the Paul Whiteman Orchestra with Gershwin himself at the piano. My dad
has a Bing Crosby record when he was still with the Delta Rhythm Boys. They're
both a little more collectable, but nothing to get your panties knotted up
over.
Audiophile? Huh? I've never before heard that word and "78s" in the same
sentence before. I can imagine, *maybe* that later 78s, post-Orthophonic and
after they no longer added abrasive to the mix, might sound pretty good. But
anything that got released then would also have gotten released in better
fidelity on LP not much later, so what's the point?

--Bob Farace

"I only believe in fire." --Anais Nin

"DeserTBoB" wrote in message
...
This time he's trying to hawk 1¢ 78s for big bucks!

Here's a line of **** from his 78 auction:

NOTHING SOUNDS AS ORIGINAL AND LIFELIKE AS A SHELLAC RECORD PLAYED ON
A HIGH-END TURNTABLE ! AUDIOPHILES AGREE !


Fingernails on a chalk board sound original and lifelike also.


winnard

On 21 Dec 2004 04:50:46 GMT, (Bluemuse) wrote:

I have a couple of Victrolas, a Sonora, and a Birch picnic phonograph. I enjoy
playing 78s, especially old opera recordings. snip

This is different. This is exploring an antique media, much like 8
track collecting and playing is. Surely, you can get restorations of
the old Caruso releases on CD, but that's only for those musically
interested, not those intersted in the complete historical context.

There's a sense of fun and history playing them. And also a
sense of authenticity sometimes--Caruso didn't live to see electrical
recording, so playing him back acoustically seems right. And maybe, considering
he was recorded acoustically, it's the best you're going to get anyway. snip

True. Plus, many of the matrices used in mastering the 78s are long
gone, except for later (and bigger selling) releases from the big
labels like Victor, Decca, Columbia and a few others. Even Columbia
melted down a lot of their matrices from the late acoustic/early
electronic days, since those at the time felt there was no commercial
worth to them. This happened to a LOT of the old early movie music
scores at MGM and Columbia studios, where they were unceremoniously
dumped into a landfill north of LA. The LA Times reports a gentleman
is carrying out an archeological "dig" of sorts at the site to try to
reclaim some of this irreplaceable material.

Part of the fun with playing 78s is that they're dirt cheap. I've had people
*give* me entire boxes of 78s at yard sales when all I really wanted was one or
two. They just want them out of their house to free up the space. Unfortunately
that saddles me with boxes of stuff that doesn't interest me . . . snip

I used to dabble in 78s, for much the same reason: they were a dirt
cheap source of old recorded music. However, playback problems on
good equipment were problematic, mainly because so many different
playback equalization schemes were dreamt up from the '30s onward. I
still have a switchable network that provides most curves that'll
accurately play back anything from the '30s onward, but I only use it
for my very early LP collection now. My Empire with the Stanton 2 mil
cartridge went with my collection.

As for rarity, what dB says is correct. I've met people that think they've
got a goldmine with old Caruso 78s. Nope. Caruso was the most popular singer
of his day. It's especially funny when they think it's more rare because it's
one-sided. Victor, with marketing savvy, kept the Red Label records one-sided
long after the rest of their lines were two-sided. Why? Because they could sell
more records that way. The records that *are* rare are the old black blues
artists. Alarming as it may sound now, in those days white artists were usually
one one label, black artists on another (with notable exceptions). You wouldn't
even find them being sold in the same record shop. That means most of those
blues 78s ended up in poor southern and urban areas. And believe me, collectors
have already been door-to-door down there looking for them. Think you're going
to find Robert Johnson mixed in with a bunch of Sammy Kaye records? Think
again. snip

Brunswick was a "depository" label for black artists who wouldn't be
allowed to record for Victor and the others. Oft times, black artists
would get their contract (what of it there was) from one of the big
labels, and they'd "sub out" the actually release to Brunswick and
others. Brunswick continued to be a "black oriented" label up in to
the 1970s.

Some records will generate mild interest. I've got a 78 of Rhapsody in Blue
done by the Paul Whiteman Orchestra with Gershwin himself at the piano. My dad
has a Bing Crosby record when he was still with the Delta Rhythm Boys. They're
both a little more collectable, but nothing to get your panties knotted up
over. snip

Again, interest on these will be 100% involved with the artists'
careers, not the recordings themselves. Very early "Der Bingle" 78s
with the Delta Rhythm Boys aren't really that rare, either, but Bing's
name and voice brings up the prices.

Audiophile? Huh? I've never before heard that word and "78s" in the same
sentence before. I can imagine, *maybe* that later 78s, post-Orthophonic and
after they no longer added abrasive to the mix, might sound pretty good. But
anything that got released then would also have gotten released in better
fidelity on LP not much later, so what's the point? snip

RCA was in the lead as far as modernization of electrical recording
from the very late '30s onward, and many of their big band releases
from the Goodman and Artie Shaw times were improvements in fidelity,
but still unmistakably 78s. Postwar 78s were dramatically improved,
but it seemed that the competing labels were in a pitched battle to
come up with as many equalization curves as they could at that time, a
problem that lasted into the early LP days. Finally, in 1954, the
RIAA dictated that the RCA "New Orthophonic" curve, which RCA had been
using from their late 78s onward, become the US standard for
equalization, and all member labels agreed. Some European releases
continued with various schemes into about 1957, but by '58, the whole
world was RIAA. Even Emory Cook, who fought the RCA standard and
45/45 stereo for years, finally went along. Cook's "binaural"
records, the first commercial "stereophonic" disks released in
1952-54, used an arcane combination of NAB/-12 on the outside band
(right channel) and NAB/flat on the inside, thus making his disks
sounds a LOT like FM/AM simulcast stereo, with a lot of hiss and snaps
and crackles in the left channel!

What's interesting is the slowness in which fidelity came to the
consumer. 16" vinyl transcription disks were common after Western
Electric's debut of stereophonic recording and reproduction in 1933,
which was 33.3 RPM and dual side-by-side 3 mil grooves on quiet virgin
vinyl. Unlike Cook's separate track system using the Livingston
tonearm, AT&T proposed that their side-by-side/vetically modulated
system be the real stereo standard in the late '40s, but the "Computer
Inquiry II" consent decree of 1956 put them out of the audio (and
movie) business from that point on. AT&T's film and sound divisions
were sold off to become the Westrex Division of Litton Industries, who
went on to dominate the record cutting and film soundtrack business
well into the '70s.

dB

Noodles...incompetent, stupid, larcenous. The USA deserves to
collapse, if this idiot represents 51% of the populace! The smart
among us can go join Canada!

dB


I heard Canada will take anyone.
I have a feeling this is gonna be a tough 4 years for you, Bush hasn't even
been innaugerated yet.

BWAAAA-HAHAHAHHA

that is a good one FX, you really hit DB on the head with that
post...the guy is too stupid to realize when something is
"collectible"...he'd find the mummy of Ramses II in a pyramid, and
complain how dusty and dried up it is, and think it's worthless...

see, when someone has no common sense like DB, there's no reasoning
with him, cuz he has no reason to begin with

you tell him, Daddy...

nobody can become obsessed and follow someone's auctions like my
daddy...

but daddy, how come you have trippin killfiled, then follow his
auctions every day ?

DUH !

winnard wrote:
"DeserTBoB" wrote in message
...
This time he's trying to hawk 1=A2 78s for big bucks!

Here's a line of **** from his 78 auction:

NOTHING SOUNDS AS ORIGINAL AND LIFELIKE AS A SHELLAC RECORD PLAYED
ON
A HIGH-END TURNTABLE ! AUDIOPHILES AGREE !


Fingernails on a chalk board sound original and lifelike also.


winnard


you are really stupid, aren't you...

one of those 78's went for $2300 on ebay last week, this one is already
up to $395...

you guys would throw away the Holy Grail cuz it's just a tarnished old
cup...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3D40609 49=
944&rd=3D1

where the hell you've been ?? I have over 3000 78's in stock, and been
selling them seasonally for over 2 years now, they often go for $50 or
more on ebay, one went for $2300 last week, here's another that just
bid to $395 now

you are a stupid ass !

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...094994 4&rd=1

DeserTBoB wrote:
This time he's trying to hawk 1=A2 78s for big bucks!

Here's a line of **** from his 78 auction:

NOTHING SOUNDS AS ORIGINAL AND LIFELIKE AS A SHELLAC RECORD PLAYED ON
A HIGH-END TURNTABLE ! AUDIOPHILES AGREE !

Show me ONE "audiophool", Noodles, that says ANY 78, except for the
MATRIX, sounds "good" at all!

These 78s were all chart toppers in their day, and have NO collector
value at all. 78s only have collector value when they're VERY old
(Berliner discs), or VERY rare. Even "near mint" shellacs by Sinatra
et al aren't worth anything, because so many were pressed, there are
still TONS of "near mint" examples around...and they all sound the
same...like ****!

Noodles...incompetent, stupid, larcenous. The USA deserves to
collapse, if this idiot represents 51% of the populace! The smart
among us can go join Canada!
=20
dB