Inkflow from Convertors vs. Cartridges

Over the years, I've noticed that when I get a new pen with a convertor
the inkflow is stingy. When I remove the convertor and replace it with
a cartridge, the inkflow becomes normal. Then I continue to use the
cartridge and refill it with the ink of my choice.
I was reminded of this just yesterday when I bought a NOS Stylochap
from a store and brought it home and had the problem yet again.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon, and if so, is there a
reasonable explanation for this?

Nancy

Nancy Handy wrote:

Over the years, I've noticed that when I get a new pen with a convertor
the inkflow is stingy. When I remove the convertor and replace it with
a cartridge, the inkflow becomes normal. Then I continue to use the
cartridge and refill it with the ink of my choice.
I was reminded of this just yesterday when I bought a NOS Stylochap
from a store and brought it home and had the problem yet again.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon, and if so, is there a
reasonable explanation for this?

Lousy plastic that companies use for terribly designed converters and
shows how little they care about what the sell. For the first 35 years
of widely sold cartridge pens from the 50s thru late 70s this problem
did not happen at all. Properly made converters are NEVER made of
standard stryene plastic but ALWAYS made with a rubber sac, or a
plyglass sac with interior flow ribs molded in the sac or from the same
poly style plastic as cartridges. The old piston fill Sheaffer and
Parker converters, for example from the 1960s both were made of poly
material rather than styrene. Later on both switched to ink sac
converters. No problems. Also both original has a weight in the
cartridge to further aid flow, although thats soemthing some still have
today such as in the cheap Parker slide style.

Just another example of people running pen companies today not knowing
or caring about what they make or sell. Its such a basic thing that
there is NO excusss on earth for it. To sell such poorly desigend
converetrs would have been impossible 35 years ago because dozens of
people in every pen company on earth would have known better and spoken
out before such a dumb thing could hit the market.

Bottom line stryene plastic just does not allow proper ink flow without
serious and exstensive treatment. Rubber sacs, and polyethylene offers
nearly perfect flow with almost no pre treatment needed. A basic fact
of pen design known for well over 50 years. Too bad people in pen
companies today don't know the basics of pen design at all. Like they
even care. As they used to say on the old SNL... ..and thats the
truth. End of rant. Frank

Hi everybody,

My name is Roberto Medri, I'm a 21-year-old student from Italy. This is the
first time I write on this newsgroup (uh, actually first time I write in a
whatsoever newsgroup). Unfortunately, there's no Italian newsgroup about
pens at all . However, I'm a complete novice, so please be patient.

First question: my Cross Metropol converter got lost. I also own a Cross
Classic Century, but the Metropol does not accept the Century converter,
which has to be screwed in, whereas the Metropol one just needs to be
pushed in. A manufacturer that designs two different types of converters
does not make much sense to me, but given this, I'm in desperate need to
find the right converter.

In Italy people don't care about pens at all, moreover when it comes to
fountain pens. A few folks around here craft the best pens in the world,
but the ordinary guy doesn't give much about this. It's the same old story
here in Italy, not only about fountain pens. This was to say I have to cope
qith a 50 km trip just to get some cross cartridges, but I could not find
any suitable converter (I bought this pen in Glasgow). So,

- does any of you have an idea of where I can buy an appropriate converter
for my pen on the internet (I could not find any proper site :-( )?

- in the meantime, do you know a workaround to fill empty cross cartridges
with the ink of my choice, as I fancy I cannot write without Waterman bleu-
noir ink anymore (even if it was just for its smell)?

Thank you in advance, and apologies for my poor English

Rob


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

wrote in message ...
Nancy Handy wrote:

Over the years, I've noticed that when I get a new pen with a convertor
the inkflow is stingy. When I remove the convertor and replace it with
a cartridge, the inkflow becomes normal. Then I continue to use the
cartridge and refill it with the ink of my choice.
I was reminded of this just yesterday when I bought a NOS Stylochap
from a store and brought it home and had the problem yet again.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon, and if so, is there a
reasonable explanation for this?

Lousy plastic that companies use for terribly designed converters and
shows how little they care about what the sell. For the first 35 years
of widely sold cartridge pens from the 50s thru late 70s this problem
did not happen at all. Properly made converters are NEVER made of
standard stryene plastic but ALWAYS made with a rubber sac, or a
plyglass sac with interior flow ribs molded in the sac or from the same
poly style plastic as cartridges. The old piston fill Sheaffer and
Parker converters, for example from the 1960s both were made of poly
material rather than styrene. Later on both switched to ink sac
converters. No problems. Also both original has a weight in the
cartridge to further aid flow, although thats soemthing some still have
today such as in the cheap Parker slide style.

Just another example of people running pen companies today not knowing
or caring about what they make or sell. Its such a basic thing that
there is NO excusss on earth for it. To sell such poorly desigend
converetrs would have been impossible 35 years ago because dozens of
people in every pen company on earth would have known better and spoken
out before such a dumb thing could hit the market.

Bottom line stryene plastic just does not allow proper ink flow without
serious and exstensive treatment. Rubber sacs, and polyethylene offers
nearly perfect flow with almost no pre treatment needed. A basic fact
of pen design known for well over 50 years. Too bad people in pen
companies today don't know the basics of pen design at all. Like they
even care. As they used to say on the old SNL... ..and thats the
truth. End of rant. Frank

One more point to consider is where has the ink previously stored; in
the case of cartridges, the answer is plastic, and considering the
lack of consistence on the use of materials, that plastic could be any
plastic. in the case of converters, the ink was contained in a GLASS
bottle, and glass has been time tested to be perfect for that use. Ask
yourself... would you buy a plastic bottle of single malt whisky? or a
can of fine wine?. You can't improve what is already perfect :-)
One more example relating that "special coating" inside some
converters.... people who buy an anti fog pair of goggles still use
some saliva. What's wrong with cheap tricks?

Juan

Juan wrote:


One more point to consider is where has the ink previously stored; in
the case of cartridges, the answer is plastic, and considering the
lack of consistence on the use of materials, that plastic could be any
plastic. in the case of converters, the ink was contained in a GLASS
bottle, and glass has been time tested to be perfect for that use. Ask
yourself... would you buy a plastic bottle of single malt whisky? or a
can of fine wine?. You can't improve what is already perfect :-)
One more example relating that "special coating" inside some
converters.... people who buy an anti fog pair of goggles still use
some saliva. What's wrong with cheap tricks?

Many pen companies have used plastic bottles over the years for a while
only to learn the hard way and go back to glass. Basic simple
rule--never buy any ink that comes in a plastic bottle unless it is
fresh and you intend to use it soon. Their life is longer than
cartridges due to the greater volumn of ink vs plastic but perhaps only
15 years or so maximum. Sometimes far less. Larger bottles like quart
and pint plastic bottles from the 60s are kind of hard to find,
thankfully, but still seem OK although most do exhibit some chemical
sludge at the bottom that the same ink in glass never has so even those
can be doubtful. As I say in Da Book glass is an excellent conatiner
for ink. Plastic is not. To add to the problem is possible leeching of
some of the plastic's petro chemicals into the ink itself over time.
Which is why I strongly suggest throwing out cartridges over ten years
old, or at very least puncture and rinse them with water and refill with
ink. To merely refill a partially empty cartridge with water to salvage
the thicker ink old inside can lead to occasional problems if that ink
has been contaminated with leeched oily chemicals from the plastic.
Frank

Thanks to Frank, Kcat, Norman, and everyone who answered. I guess like
you all said, it's either the lousy cheap plastic, the thin layer of ick
on it, or the converter itself. I will have to try getting an Aurora
converter for all of my pens that take them.

Every modern pen I've had that I thought had flow problems always worked
fine as soon as I switched to the cartridges, but I will first try
washing my converters with detergent like Kcat mentioned and then switch
to a new converter if I can find a source for the Aurora ones, that
Norman likes, assuming it is compatible with the pen.

Nancy

"Norman M. Schwartz" wrote in message news

I've had lots of problems with the converter in a Parker FP, ink flow and
difficulty in moving its slider. Lo and behold I recently discovered that an
Aurora converter fits the Parker and both problems are resolved. Is there "a
reasonable explanation for this" (omitting the slider problem since Aurora
uses a differing and highly superior control) ?

I'm aware of TWO converters which Parker makes (distributes?). The
aforementioned converter with the slider mechanism can be somewhat
problematic. It appears to be made from a cheaper grade of plastic.
There's a little loose metal spring inside which, I believe, is there
to break up the surface tension of the ink on the inside wall of the
converter. The biggest drawback is that it just doesn't hold much
ink.

Parker makes another converter which utilizes a twist mechanism. It's
very similar to the one sold by Aurora. It costs about twice as much
as the slider converter, but can usually be found for less than the
Aurora. I have both the Aurora and the Parker twist converters and
can recommend both equally.

A good source for these is www.Pendemonium.com. Look on the left for
the button called "Fountain Pen Ink". Click on it and it will take
you to a menu for the various inks they carry. The converters are
found at the bottom of the pages for Aurora and Parker inks. They
have pictures posted, so you'll be able to see how similar they are.

David
Who likes the convenience of cartridges when he's away from the
office.

"David Heverly" wrote in message
om...
"Norman M. Schwartz" wrote in message news

I've had lots of problems with the converter in a Parker FP, ink flow
and
difficulty in moving its slider. Lo and behold I recently discovered
that an
Aurora converter fits the Parker and both problems are resolved. Is
there "a
reasonable explanation for this" (omitting the slider problem since
Aurora
uses a differing and highly superior control) ?

I'm aware of TWO converters which Parker makes (distributes?). The
aforementioned converter with the slider mechanism can be somewhat
problematic. It appears to be made from a cheaper grade of plastic.
There's a little loose metal spring inside which, I believe, is there
to break up the surface tension of the ink on the inside wall of the
converter. The biggest drawback is that it just doesn't hold much
ink.


I should have known this before ordering a batch of Aurora converters from
Swisher. A representative for Parker, actually now Sanford (?), didn't
mention having any twist converters available.

"Norman M. Schwartz" wrote in message ...

I should have known this before ordering a batch of Aurora converters from
Swisher. A representative for Parker, actually now Sanford (?), didn't
mention having any twist converters available.

Yowww!!! Hw many is in a batch? I just checked the Swisher site.
They have pictures of both the Aurora and Parker twist conerters (see
accessories, convertors on the site). They're very similar. The
biggest difference seems to be the price. The Aurora costs $11.00
versus $5.50 for the Parker. One could literally buy two Parkers for
each Aurora.

I notice they don't even sell the cheaper Parker slide converter.

Shame on the Sanford Rep. for not knowing his product line better. I
wonder if Parker actually makes the converter versus buying it from
another manufacturer and distributing it as their own. Most of these
twist coverters seem pretty similar. The big difference is the size
of the opening which attaches to the feed of the fountain pen. The
rest of the converter is the same irrespective of whether it's a
Parker or International style converter. On the other hand, the slide
converter seems to be proprietary to Parker. I haven't seem them for
any other pen.

David
Who feels your pain.

"David Heverly" wrote in message
om...
"Norman M. Schwartz" wrote in message
...

I should have known this before ordering a batch of Aurora converters
from
Swisher. A representative for Parker, actually now Sanford (?), didn't
mention having any twist converters available.

Yowww!!! Hw many is in a batch? I just checked the Swisher site.
They have pictures of both the Aurora and Parker twist conerters (see
accessories, convertors on the site). They're very similar. The
biggest difference seems to be the price. The Aurora costs $11.00
versus $5.50 for the Parker. One could literally buy two Parkers for
each Aurora.

I notice they don't even sell the cheaper Parker slide converter.

Shame on the Sanford Rep. for not knowing his product line better. I
wonder if Parker actually makes the converter versus buying it from
another manufacturer and distributing it as their own. Most of these
twist coverters seem pretty similar. The big difference is the size
of the opening which attaches to the feed of the fountain pen. The
rest of the converter is the same irrespective of whether it's a
Parker or International style converter. On the other hand, the slide
converter seems to be proprietary to Parker. I haven't seem them for
any other pen.

David
Who feels your pain.

I ordered 4 from Swisher, partly to justify the shipping costs and in
addition because I have 2 Auroras (Ipsilons, which may need converters down
the line) a couple of cheepie Parkers (having those crappy, always getting
stuck slide converters), 1 expensive good Parker and another good Parker
(Duofold) arriving soon. However, one thing about the Aurora converters
which may make them different, and therefore either better or worse than
those sold by Sanford is that the boxes that contain the Auroras indicate
"Made in Italy". I highly doubt that the Sanford branded converter has an
Italian Passport. Attempting to move a jammed Parker slide converter with
the working end of a pen immersed in a bottle of ink is a very risky affair,
which I carry out in a (stainless steel) kitchen sink!
Norman