LP/8 track comparison

LP/8 track comparison

Group: alt.collecting.8-track-tapes Date: Sun, Dec 12, 2004, 5:21pm
(EST-3) From: (DeserTBoB)
On 12 Dec 2004 .
THE worst: Linda McCartney, with Yoko making a close second. If the guy
who shot Lennon would've missed and hit Yoko instead, he'd be a friggin'
hero today. What a self-absorbed, talentless BITCH!
dB

dug your post up to here, dB. With Linda: yes, she is not a good lead
vocalist by any stretch, but listen to the McCartney album Ram and check
out how good her background vocals are. They mesh with Paul's pretty
well, Paul mixed her in the background properly, on many tracks it's
just -her- doing the backups, and I think she sounds pretty good.
Of course, if you don't like Paul, you're not going to like any of it
)

Now, on to Yoko:
Conventional pop music talent? forget it.
Yoko has always, to me at least, been more about ideas, which is what I
think Lennon saw that he found so interesting. I really like a few Yoko
tracks, mainly the Lennon b-sides like remember love, who has seen the
wind, listen the snow is falling.
I thought the Phil Spector produced Season Of Glass has some very strong
songwriting (in a pop vein, yet!) and the masterful production did a lot
to obscure yoko's obvious limitations. Is she out there in la-la land?
sure, I think so. Is she a great or even good pop singer? absolutely
not, IMO. However, I think she was an important part of the 60's in
general, not so much for her serious musical talent as for pushing the
envelope and shaking people up, even being deliberately offensive. I
think she was just as important as anyone in bringing avant-garde art
sensibility to a wide audience that never would have been exposed to it
otherwise (Revolution #9 on the White Album)....now, while most people
may loathe that track, it does provide an artistic statement that for
some reason seems as good a close for that album as any. I also think
yoko is valid as an artist who tries to present the mundane and everyday
in a new way, so the observer sees something much more profound. Of
course she's not the first to do this, but she is notable in this field.

So, to sum up, I can't get behind the idea of her being shot either, dB.
Even if someone creates art you think is absolutely terrible, it doesn't
call for the death penalty. If it does, can I nominate Madonna, Britney,
all the latest pop tarts, all the rap acts, all the 2nd rate metal acts,
all the mindless pop here-today gone-tomorrow acts, all the generic
country 'hat' acts? gee, would there be anybody left? ))

I'm with lennonfan on this, except that I even like a lot of Yoko's "shreiking"
songs like "Why." It's even poignant taken in the context of the pain of not
being able to see her daughter. Tuneful? No, but there are plenty of others to
listen to for tuneful. Just like Metal Machine Music, it serves a purpose for
me.
Linda McCartney, well, I've heard the board tapes of her background concert
singing and it's pretty horrendous. But I also have to remember just how
difficult it can be in a live band situation to actually hear the rest of the
band, and I have to give her some benefit of the doubt. (But I don't listen to
McCartney anyway . . .)

--Bob Farace

"I only believe in fire." --Anais Nin

LP/8 track comparison

Group: alt.collecting.8-track-tapes Date: Mon, Dec 13, 2004, 3:17pm
(EST+5) From: (Bluemuse)
I'm with lennonfan on this, except that I even like a lot of Yoko's
"shreiking" songs like "Why." It's even poignant taken in the context of
the pain of not being able to see her daughter. Tuneful? No, but there
are plenty of others to listen to for tuneful. Just like Metal Machine
Music, it serves a purpose for me.

I admit to liking Why too. Great intense guitar and drums from john and
ringo.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 06:49:37 -0500, (lennon fan)
wrote:

dug your post up to here, dB. With Linda: yes, she is not a good lead
vocalist by any stretch, but listen to the McCartney album Ram and check
out how good her background vocals are. They mesh with Paul's pretty
well, Paul mixed her in the background properly, on many tracks it's
just -her- doing the backups, and I think she sounds pretty good.
Of course, if you don't like Paul, you're not going to like any of it
) snip

McCartney's usage of her for backups was expedient, sure, but he
wisely buried her in the mix. I think the proper statement would be
that he mixed her INTO the background. If she were pushed too far
into the foreground, it would've ruined the album, for sure. But for
her to fancy herself a solo artist? Fahgeddaboudit!

Now, on to Yoko:
Conventional pop music talent? forget it.
Yoko has always, to me at least, been more about ideas, which is what I
think Lennon saw that he found so interesting. I really like a few Yoko
tracks, mainly the Lennon b-sides like remember love, who has seen the
wind, listen the snow is falling. snip

Conceptualizing is great. It's the engine which produces a creative
result. But, there are those who conceptualize, and those who do.
Yoko can't and shouldn't "do."

I thought the Phil Spector produced Season Of Glass has some very strong
songwriting (in a pop vein, yet!) and the masterful production did a lot
to obscure yoko's obvious limitations. snip

Again..."bury her in the mix."

Is she out there in la-la land?
sure, I think so. Is she a great or even good pop singer? absolutely
not, IMO. However, I think she was an important part of the 60's in
general, not so much for her serious musical talent as for pushing the
envelope and shaking people up, even being deliberately offensive. I
think she was just as important as anyone in bringing avant-garde art
sensibility to a wide audience that never would have been exposed to it
otherwise (Revolution #9 on the White Album)....now, while most people
may loathe that track, it does provide an artistic statement that for
some reason seems as good a close for that album as any. I also think
yoko is valid as an artist who tries to present the mundane and everyday
in a new way, so the observer sees something much more profound. Of
course she's not the first to do this, but she is notable in this field. snip

I see a corrolary between the two...both were at the side of superior
talents with prodigeous output, and when they fell by the wayside,
they were left to stand on their own. Both, instead of realizing
their own limitations, used their cash and industry credentials for
forge forward into insipid, vapid and thoroughly useless projects with
questionable artistic merit. Now, I do agree that Yoko is an "idea"
person, whose values on social change are meritorious, BUT...wouldn't,
perhaps, that vision be better expressed by being, say, on the other
side of the glass to guide and mold upcoming artists to deliver the
message? NOT that she could really do that; her acerbic personality
and failure to be able to work with people are the stuff of legend...a
diva without the diva, so to speak. Having her deliver the message
simply turns most people off like a light switch. They hear 30
seconds of her and tune out permanently. With the complete dearth of
talent these days, we obviously need people with strong ideological
convictions to guide new talent, rather than have a bunch of industry
hacks propping up "turnkey pop artists" like Ashlee "Simpleton" and
Enrique Iglesias. Hate to say it, but I trace this trend back to
1967, when a non-artistic corporate lawyer named Clive Davis took over
Columbia the first time. People seem to think Avril Lavigne has more
intellectual credibility, but she's not much better, in my view.
She's got the caustic mouth, though. Points to her for beating up on
Ashlee after the SNL disaster.

So, to sum up, I can't get behind the idea of her being shot either, dB. snip

I know, I was being crass, but you have to think: if you had to make
the choice between Lennon and Yoko, which would YOU choose?

Even if someone creates art you think is absolutely terrible, it doesn't
call for the death penalty. If it does, can I nominate Madonna, Britney,
all the latest pop tarts, all the rap acts, all the 2nd rate metal acts,
all the mindless pop here-today gone-tomorrow acts, all the generic
country 'hat' acts? gee, would there be anybody left? )) snip

Well stated, and this reinforces my point. In the music industry,
there's a complete dearth of artistically meritorious talent, pushed
forward by industry hacks and studio techs armed with AutoTune and the
like. Wouldn't it be better to have Yoko, who I admit has
intellectual validity, forming these artists, rather than these
corporate shills? This is so evident today, especially when the lip
synching Ashlee "Simpleton" got Billboard's "Female Artist Of The
Year." There wasn't ANY talent on that show except for Stevie Wonder,
and it was quite obvious he was NOT happy being thrown in with a cast
of wannabes. One good talent, though...Usher. He's got the pipes and
the sensitivity, still minor league compared to Stevie, but better
than the current crop.

On this Ashlee note, there's an mpeg floating around on
ebaumsworld.com...basically just a dupe of Ashlee's embarrasment on
SNL, but with a more proper musical backing.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/ashlee-snl.html

Click on the remix...LOL!

Goes to show you...lip sync on SNL without Lorne Michaels' approval,
you get torpedoed! Now she's blaming her vocal problems on "acid
reflux." Obviously, she's been watching too many Prilosec
commercials. Dumb bitch....

dB

On 13 Dec 2004 15:17:21 GMT, (Bluemuse) wrote:

I'm with lennonfan on this, except that I even like a lot of Yoko's "shreiking"
songs like "Why." It's even poignant taken in the context of the pain of not
being able to see her daughter. Tuneful? No, but there are plenty of others to
listen to for tuneful. Just like Metal Machine Music, it serves a purpose for
me. snip

Yoko's serious about that stuff. I think Reed was heavily tongue in
cheek on MMM, and for that, it worked.

Linda McCartney, well, I've heard the board tapes of her background concert
singing and it's pretty horrendous. But I also have to remember just how
difficult it can be in a live band situation to actually hear the rest of the
band, and I have to give her some benefit of the doubt. (But I don't listen to
McCartney anyway . . .) snip

Singing live, whether up front or in the back, is something that
requires performance talent. Linda McCartney just doesn't have it,
even with good foldback to guide her along. She THINKS she's got it,
but she doesn't. She doesn't have the brains, either, to come across
with intellectual sensibility. At least Yoko and Reed have/had that.
I still can't stomach any more than about a half minute of Yoko on
anything, though...it's just too pompous, too presumptuous,
too....BAD!

dB

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:07:30 -0500, (lennon fan)
wrote:

I admit to liking Why too. Great intense guitar and drums from john and
ringo. snip

OK...if you could get a remix of "Why" without her vocals, would you
like it better?

dB

I think Reed was heavily tongue in
cheek on MMM, and for that, it worked.

Actually he was heavily dosed on amphetamines, and from what I've read didn't
have much of a sense of humor at that time. Part of the fun of MMM, though, are
all the contradictory interviews he gave about it, many of which are compiled
in Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung, the collection of Lester Bangs's
writing. Fun stuff.
--Bob Farace

"I only believe in fire." --Anais Nin

On 13 Dec 2004 20:21:43 GMT, (Bluemuse) wrote:

I think Reed was heavily tongue in
cheek on MMM, and for that, it worked.

Actually he was heavily dosed on amphetamines snip

....thus explaining to me why tweekers always have this playing while
partying.

...and from what I've read didn't
have much of a sense of humor at that time. snip

Most tweekers don't. They're too busy looking for those CIA and DEA
guys hiding in their refrigerator.

Part of the fun of MMM, though, are
all the contradictory interviews he gave about it, many of which are compiled
in Psychotic Reactions and Carburetor Dung, the collection of Lester Bangs's
writing. Fun stuff. snip

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a read.

dB

LP/8 track comparison

Group: alt.collecting.8-track-tapes Date: Mon, Dec 13, 2004, 11:13am
(EST-3) From: (DeserTBoB)
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:07:30 -0500, (lennon fan)
wrote:
I admit to liking Why too. Great intense guitar and drums from john and
ringo. snip
OK...if you could get a remix of "Why" without her vocals, would you
like it better?
dB

yeah, I would. That backing track sounds modern even today tho its 35
years old....and it would be better without the screaming IMO.