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Greece urges ECB to issue low denomination Euro notes



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 30th 05, 04:53 PM
stonej
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Default Greece urges ECB to issue low denomination Euro notes

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

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  #2  
Old June 30th 05, 07:58 PM
Paul Anderson
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In article . com,
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html


From the article:

On Thursday, Greek Development Minister Dimitris Sioufas said
low-denomination bills would help Europeans better understand the
value of the euro and deter businesses from overpricing basic items.

Are they saying that if people pay for an item with coins, where they
previously paid with bills, the perception is that it is cheaper? And
therefore, businesses are raising prices because the perception of
price is lower?

Are people in Greece really this stupid? One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill. If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?

Paul

--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company
  #3  
Old June 30th 05, 08:29 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html


Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on. I find it somewhat odd that almost four years after
the introduction of the cash, some people in GR and IT still have not
gotten used to the cash, but in any case, why should the rest of
Euroland have to deal with such rag euros?

Christian
  #4  
Old July 1st 05, 01:01 AM
Dik T. Winter
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Default

In article writes:
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html

Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on.


Has Austria gotten out of that discussion? I find it interesting that
quite a few of the new member nations already circulate coins that are
in excess of 1 (or even 2) Euro.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #5  
Old July 1st 05, 01:04 AM
gogu
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Default

? "Paul Anderson" ?????? ??? ??????
...
In article . com,
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html


From the article:

On Thursday, Greek Development Minister Dimitris Sioufas said
low-denomination bills would help Europeans better understand the
value of the euro and deter businesses from overpricing basic items.

Are they saying that if people pay for an item with coins, where they
previously paid with bills, the perception is that it is cheaper?


Nope.
They are saying that older people who lived for decades with the drachmas
can better "feel" the value of the money if expressed in drachmas instead of
euros.
Same say the Italians, the French and quite every people in the EU.
And let's not forget UK that doesn't like to change its currency, one of the
reasons (maybe the smaller reason but nevertheless a reason) been that.

And
therefore, businesses are raising prices because the perception of
price is lower?


YES!
In Greece like in France, 100 drachmas "became" one euro, in France they say
one franc "became" one euro and so on...
Germans are protesting, too, and they say they want their mark back.
I don't think that people are stupid just because you can't get the essence
of the problem...

Are people in Greece really this stupid?


Yes Master Genius ;-)

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.


Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...
In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.


Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin ?...
It must help some people if they do that...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?


Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...
Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.


PS
I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html


Paul

--
Paul Anderson
OpenVMS Engineering
Hewlett-Packard Company




  #6  
Old July 1st 05, 01:08 AM
gogu
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Posts: n/a
Default

? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
. ..
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html


Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on. I find it somewhat odd that almost four years after
the introduction of the cash, some people in GR and IT still have not
gotten used to the cash, but in any case, why should the rest of
Euroland have to deal with such rag euros?



Christian, I've read lately that even the Germans are asking for their Mark
back not to mention the French !
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.
But I agree with you: "the game will go on and on" but there is no chance to
go back to the old currencies.
Euro is here to stay.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Christian




  #7  
Old July 1st 05, 01:46 AM
Dik T. Winter
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article "gogu" writes:
....
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want back
the old currency. On the other hand, I do not see how a change to low
denomination notes will change anything. I think the problem is that
some people perceive that when something is a note it is suddenly
expensive, while you can spend coins as you wish. The common perception
of the people that want to go back to the old currency is that the Euro
makes everything more expensive, and that is a (common) fallacy. It is
not the Euro, but the abuse some branches in commerce made when changing
to the Euro. Changing back to the original currency will *again*
increase prices. In the Netherlands I have seen the change of the 1 gulden,
2 1/2 gulden and 5 gulden notes to coins without a perceptible change in
appreciation. On the other hand I have in my collection rag-notes from
countries that have (and had) no real value at all.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #8  
Old July 1st 05, 02:27 AM
gogu
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Posts: n/a
Default

Ï "Dik T. Winter" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
In article "gogu"
writes:
...
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans
but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want back
the old currency.


I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-)

On the other hand, I do not see how a change to low
denomination notes will change anything.


Nobody said it will change, that's what they believe.

I think the problem is that
some people perceive that when something is a note it is suddenly
expensive, while you can spend coins as you wish.


This is true.
Psychology.
And that's why Americans don't give up their currency dollar...
And here we are not talking about "some" but about "many" as the majority of
the Americans favor the dollar bill as opposed to the coin dollar.

The common perception
of the people that want to go back to the old currency is that the Euro
makes everything more expensive, and that is a (common) fallacy.


Well, it is not fallacy and it's only partially true: the euro didn't make
everything expensive, it's just a currency after all.
The speculation of the people did everything expensive.
But people have associated the euro with higher prices, so I understand
their reaction...

It is
not the Euro, but the abuse some branches in commerce made when changing
to the Euro.


Right.

Changing back to the original currency will *again*
increase prices.


Hmmmm ... not sure...
As I can see, most of the people do remember the pre-euro prices so I don't
think they'll be fooled one more time...

In the Netherlands I have seen the change of the 1 gulden,
2 1/2 gulden and 5 gulden notes to coins without a perceptible change in
appreciation.


In Greece the change of 50, 100 and 500 drachmas from paper to coin had a
negative effect on the appreciation.
When it was paper, it was OK to leave 100 drachmas as a tip at the
restaurant, after the change everybody was ashamed to leave one coin of 100
drachmas...
Same with euro: before it was OK to give a tip of 100/200 drachmas, now 1
euro (=340 drachmas) is considered a shame to give as a tip !

rgrds


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

On the other hand I have in my collection rag-notes from
countries that have (and had) no real value at all.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland,
+31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/



  #9  
Old July 1st 05, 03:38 AM
Padraic Brown
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:08:02 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
...
stonej wrote:

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds...ap2118519.html


Guess that game will go on and on g. The Italian government will claim
that the Italians still want low value notes, and the European Central
bank says No again. Shortly afterwards the Greek government will say
that people in their country want low value notes, and the ECB - see
above. And so on. I find it somewhat odd that almost four years after
the introduction of the cash, some people in GR and IT still have not
gotten used to the cash, but in any case, why should the rest of
Euroland have to deal with such rag euros?



Christian, I've read lately that even the Germans are asking for their Mark
back not to mention the French !


I wonder how much of that is Germans and French realising that they
are giving up their very own countries -- Germany's ability to direct
Germany's policies -- piecemeal. I think this is one reason why the
Brits have restrained from the euro -- they still have what we like to
call a national backbone. )))

So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


That doesn't make any sense -- the older generation of Europeans more
than any other generation ought to be USED to currency change overs!
Octogenarian Germans should remember the last gasp of the Weimar
marks, 3rd Reich marks, post-war deutchmarks/marks. The euro should be
a slice of cake for them. The French should also remember pre-war and
post-war francs plus that change (I think in the 1960s) from old to
new francs.

But I agree with you: "the game will go on and on" but there is no chance to
go back to the old currencies. Euro is here to stay.


Is that really so? Is it so binding that Greece couldn't choose to
pull out? Not saying they would, mind!

Padraic.


la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
  #10  
Old July 1st 05, 03:38 AM
Padraic Brown
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.


Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)


Actually, it ìs stupid. Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance. There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.


Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin ?...


Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dó like the dollar coin
-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a €1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a €1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?


Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...


I think he mentioned Italy.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.


Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about €2 and €5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a €5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...


Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.
 




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