It's "Shake and Bake"

And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
om...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

Look at the colour of the background to the unslabbed images, and compare to
the slabbed image. Methinks perchance he has twiddled the purple (at
least).

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
om...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

The toning looks natural to me. All colors look like they blend quite well
with no color changes happening quickly.
The color of the image looks like it might have been enhanced however.
Don


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Randy Thompson wrote in message
om...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

I opt for the blow torch, I smell sterno gas on it.

Dave

From: (Randy Thompson)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

Neither, there's no "hot spot" in the toning (the place on the coin which would
have been the focus of the heat from the torch). Also, the toning on the
reverse doesn't match locations with the toning on the obverse; i.e., if the
left side of the obverse (as viewed) toned from the heat, then the right side
of the reverse should have been similarly effected, not the left--unless this
is a unique medal alignment strike! So I'd say not slow heated in an oven
either.

If it's at all artificial, I'd suggest a chemical enhancement. However, I do
agree that it lookes like he cranked-up the color on the first too scans, as
there is much more blue than shows in the pic of the slab.

--
mark

(Randy Thompson) wrote in message . com...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

I'm a bit disappointed that some of the tone experts we have here
didn't bother replying. As far as adjusting the image, it's hard to
say what color the actual background was on the images before it was
slabbed. He originally says they match exactly to the way you would
see the coin in person. Then he edits the auction to say "The colors
in person are much bolder and electric with a bright iridescent glow."

It wasn't until this morning I found a post on the NGC board that
commented on this coin and took me to another post over at Collectors
Universe about the same coin. Here's the CU link.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=209300

It seems that Eric did his posting about this coin over there instead
of over here.

Someone also posted a link where this coin was bought raw on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=302471710 7

Apparently tonecoin2003 is suspected over at CU of making a lot of AT
coins.

I didn't bring this up to try to smear NGC. I'm sure there are AT
coins in all the third party slabs. I just thought this one was
pretty obvious. Someone at NGC didn't think it was so obvious or was
having a bad day.

I'm no expert, but I don't think heat toning (say, from a torch) would
have to be so hot of so long as to effect the other side of the coin.
The reverse has two "hot spots" that look like the color radiates
outward from the rim. The colors repeat, especially from the one on
the left, which is not something that normally occurs on NT coins.

Well, if nothing else I hope I've made a few people think about AT
before they lay out any cash for a "too good to be true" coin.

Randy Thompson wrote:

(Randy Thompson) wrote in message . com...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC slab?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

I'm a bit disappointed that some of the tone experts we have here
didn't bother replying. As far as adjusting the image, it's hard to
say what color the actual background was on the images before it was
slabbed. He originally says they match exactly to the way you would
see the coin in person. Then he edits the auction to say "The colors
in person are much bolder and electric with a bright iridescent glow."

It wasn't until this morning I found a post on the NGC board that
commented on this coin and took me to another post over at Collectors
Universe about the same coin. Here's the CU link.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=209300

It seems that Eric did his posting about this coin over there instead
of over here.

Someone also posted a link where this coin was bought raw on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=302471710 7

Apparently tonecoin2003 is suspected over at CU of making a lot of AT
coins.

I didn't bring this up to try to smear NGC. I'm sure there are AT
coins in all the third party slabs. I just thought this one was
pretty obvious. Someone at NGC didn't think it was so obvious or was
having a bad day.

I'm no expert, but I don't think heat toning (say, from a torch) would
have to be so hot of so long as to effect the other side of the coin.
The reverse has two "hot spots" that look like the color radiates
outward from the rim. The colors repeat, especially from the one on
the left, which is not something that normally occurs on NT coins.

Well, if nothing else I hope I've made a few people think about AT
before they lay out any cash for a "too good to be true" coin.

Randy, I assume it's a *real issue* for people that seek out toning,
especially spectacular multi-colored toning. The only auction from that
seller I ever saw was because I was looking for EF Liberty Seated Half
Dollars. The coin looked good, but I was trying to peer past the
toning. ;-)

For myself, toning is a non-issue, so long as it is natural. An
artifical toned coin might as well be covered with graffiti for all the
appeal it has for me. A naturally toned coin neither excites nor
discourages my offer.

Alan
'details are all I want'

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
om...
(Randy Thompson) wrote in message
. com...
And it looks like somebody helped. How did this coin get in an NGC
slab?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=33 55

So, was this done with a blow torch or in an oven?

I'm a bit disappointed that some of the tone experts we have here
didn't bother replying. As far as adjusting the image, it's hard to
say what color the actual background was on the images before it was
slabbed. He originally says they match exactly to the way you would
see the coin in person. Then he edits the auction to say "The colors
in person are much bolder and electric with a bright iridescent glow."

It wasn't until this morning I found a post on the NGC board that
commented on this coin and took me to another post over at Collectors
Universe about the same coin. Here's the CU link.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=209300

It seems that Eric did his posting about this coin over there instead
of over here.

Someone also posted a link where this coin was bought raw on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=302471710 7

Apparently tonecoin2003 is suspected over at CU of making a lot of AT
coins.

I didn't bring this up to try to smear NGC. I'm sure there are AT
coins in all the third party slabs. I just thought this one was
pretty obvious. Someone at NGC didn't think it was so obvious or was
having a bad day.

I'm no expert, but I don't think heat toning (say, from a torch) would
have to be so hot of so long as to effect the other side of the coin.
The reverse has two "hot spots" that look like the color radiates
outward from the rim. The colors repeat, especially from the one on
the left, which is not something that normally occurs on NT coins.

Well, if nothing else I hope I've made a few people think about AT
before they lay out any cash for a "too good to be true" coin.

When you first posted about this W/C commem, I looked and thought it was
natural. I think I jumped to a quick conclusion because it was in an NGC
slab and, like one other poster who responded to your original post, I did
not see any sharp changes of color that would be a quick indication of AT.
Now, looking at the comments at the CU board and looking more closely at the
pictures, I do think AT. However, I am no expert and now I have more
questions than anything else. For this to be AT, is it the theory that the
coin had heat applied from two points just off of the reverse, leaving
radial patterns from these two points? Is the obverse toned with a
different pattern ( no obvious points of heat application) because the
obvers side was away from the heat source? Could this toning pattern be
natural? Did someone at NGC think it was natural, or knew it was natural
and why or how did they know this? Questions, questions, questions. Bill

On 28 Jul 2003 09:18:42 -0700, (Randy Thompson) wrote:

I'm a bit disappointed that some of the tone experts we have here
didn't bother replying.

It seems that Eric did his posting about this coin over there instead
of over here.

Most people who read this group also read those boards. I really do not
like making the same statements in all three places, plus my ability to type
these days is limited.

Bottom line where I am concerned is that this coin is questionable. AT'ed coins
do get through into PCGS and NGC slabs, but not very often. The problem with
the threads on PCGS and NGC boards is that people are trying to make it look
like NGC slabs nothing but AT coins, while PCGS is god. The truth of the matter
is an equal amount of bogus toned coins get past both of them, and you really
must know the toning for your particular series if you are going to pay some of the
enormous premiums these coins bring.
--
K6AZ WEB PAGES

http://www.k6az.com/web_pages.htm

Alan & Erin Williams wrote in message ...

Randy, I assume it's a *real issue* for people that seek out toning,
especially spectacular multi-colored toning. The only auction from that
seller I ever saw was because I was looking for EF Liberty Seated Half
Dollars. The coin looked good, but I was trying to peer past the
toning. ;-)

For myself, toning is a non-issue, so long as it is natural. An
artifical toned coin might as well be covered with graffiti for all the
appeal it has for me. A naturally toned coin neither excites nor
discourages my offer.

Alan
'details are all I want'

LOL! I'm pretty much the same way, but given the choice for the same
grade and same price, I'd take a nicely toned one. I don't much care
for the neon tone, NT or AT.

I was just looking at early commems and when I opened that up and saw
the image it jumped out at me and said "Crayola". I just thought I'd
share and hoefully get some other opinions.