Very simple question

Hello everybody,

as I wish you all a pleasant new year from Italy, I'd like to ask you
something you are probably been already asked more than once -so please
forgive me :-): I am looking for some books to help me improving my
everyday handwriting, as well as I was thinking about taking up spencerian
or copperplate calligraphy (both tasks are quite challenging for a young
left-handed, huh?); as there are so many calligraphy-et-similia books on
amazon that it's impossible to find my right way in there, I think some of
you could be really helpful with your advice and/or experiences.

Have a happy year again :-)

Roberto

--
Creato con M2, il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera:
http://www.opera.com/m2/

I would recommend contacting Paper & Ink Arts for their paper catalog.

http://www.paperinkarts.com/

The on-line catalog is not of much value. The paper catalog provides
clear and very helpful descriptions of the many books and videos out
there for handwriting improvement as well as learning calligraphy,
copperplate and so on. And of course, they have all the tools to go
with it.

John Neal Booksellers also has similar selections in books and tools
once you've found what you are looking for then you can compare
prices. I've ordered from both and been very pleased with service from
both.

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/main.html

Perhaps the most oft-mentioned book for daily handwriting improvement
is "Write Now" by Inga Dubay and Barbara Getty (sp?) I have this book
(new and haven't really spent much time with it yet.) and it really
starts you at the beginning - first it must "untrain" us from the bad
habits we learn in our youth - then the book goes more into letter
forms and the like. It appears to be an excellent book though I can't
claim it has helped me simply because - I haven't used it yet! For
$13 you really can't go wrong though.

another source for this topic is Mr. James Pickering who has a website
devoted to "Practical Calligraphy." I highly recommend reading his
pages and I'm know he has a great deal of knowledge of books on the
topic.

http://www.jp29.org/cadr.htm

Good luck - actually I think it's been a while since this topic was
brought up.

HTH,
KCat

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:55:10 GMT, Roberto Medri
wrote:

Hello everybody,

as I wish you all a pleasant new year from Italy, I'd like to ask you
something you are probably been already asked more than once -so please
forgive me :-): I am looking for some books to help me improving my
everyday handwriting, as well as I was thinking about taking up spencerian
or copperplate calligraphy (both tasks are quite challenging for a young
left-handed, huh?); as there are so many calligraphy-et-similia books on
amazon that it's impossible to find my right way in there, I think some of
you could be really helpful with your advice and/or experiences.

Have a happy year again :-)

Roberto

I do not have a book to recommend, but I can tell you what improved my
handwriting. In the days when I used routine ball points, my cursive
handwriting, and even most of my printing was poor. From time to time, it
appeared to improve for a period, and then degenerate again overnight. About
twenty-five years ago, I had enough, and decided to analyse my writing, and
try to find out why it improved for these short periods. I noticed that
when I had good writing, the pen seemed to work with me, and the paper made
me want to write. I began experimenting, and found that these two things
affected my writing the most, pen and paper. If my pen was well suited to
me, and the paper suited to the pen, writing was a joyful thing, not a
chore. The experts here in this group, (whom I have admired quietly for
years) can likely define the experience better with language than I can. I
know when I have a pen well suited to me, I can "feel" the response from the
paper. My strokes are more confident. I am not afraid to take my time. The
silky feel of the pen moving across the paper forming a very pleasant
looking document encourages me to continue. It took a while and much
experimenting to locate pens and paper that suited me. I now have a small
collection of instruments that I really look forward to using. My Namiki
Pilot is my "go to" pen in use every day, and I have a number of other
fountain and dip pens I can use with joy. Ball points are my down fall,
giving me wiggly garbage that looks awful, and a cramp in my hand at the end
of the day.

I think this brings me to the second point. I believe you should write
every day. For many, this kind of practice turns into a joyless chore.
However, I keep two journals; a personal one and a professional one. In my
professional journal are notes on meetings, phone calls, ideas I am
developing, directions I have received, actions I have taken, and so on. I
can say that this practice has saved me many times when failure starts
people on the road to assigning blame. Handwritten notes are also accepted
in court more easily than things produced electronically, and my notes
have been produced in court many times. I find myself almost wanting to
write in this journal just for the experience of writing, so it is a habit
easy to develop. My personal journal is for thoughts to myself; a diary of
sorts where more informal ideas find themselves recorded, everything from
poetry and philosophic wanderings, to what I thought of a football game. I
also force myself out of the email groove, and will write letters to people.
I receive many encouraging compliments on my letters, however a long time
correspondent recently surprised me on a visit. She produced a wonderfully
bound scrap book with all the letters I had sent to her mounted in
chronological order. She liked the content of my letters, however was far
more impressed with the writing and stationary I used. Since then, I found
many of my correspondents save my letters in one way or another just for
their aesthetics. A long way for me to have come from my early days of
scribble and scratch!

To remind me daily of the significance this small change made in my life
twenty-five years ago, I did something that caused a little trouble for my
bankers, lawyers, and a few others. I radically changed my signature. I
used to have this scribbled thing that was the result of wanting to get the
"writing chore" out of the way. I now have one that is clear, pleasing,
difficult to duplicate, and somehow signifies that whatever I have put my
hand to, I am, on some level, proud to have it there. I think many
under-estimate the power of well produced cursive documents. Everything
cursive that leaves my desk, from a post-it note to a meeting agenda, has
not failed in presenting me and my organization in a good light. It has also
become a very recognizable "trademark" of mine that has assisted my way in
life.

I guess it comes down to good pens, good paper, and a good reason to write
every day. There are hundreds of books on fonts and calligraphy, but unless
you have these elements, I do not think any book will help. Good luck on
your endeavour, from one that has found it truly did make a large difference
in how I, and my work, is perceived by others.

C.


"Roberto Medri" wrote in message
news
Hello everybody,

as I wish you all a pleasant new year from Italy, I'd like to ask you
something you are probably been already asked more than once -so please
forgive me :-): I am looking for some books to help me improving my
everyday handwriting, as well as I was thinking about taking up spencerian
or copperplate calligraphy (both tasks are quite challenging for a young
left-handed, huh?); as there are so many calligraphy-et-similia books on
amazon that it's impossible to find my right way in there, I think some of
you could be really helpful with your advice and/or experiences.

Have a happy year again :-)

Roberto

--
Creato con M2, il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera:
http://www.opera.com/m2/

"Roberto Medri" wrote in message

Hello everybody,

as I wish you all a pleasant new year from Italy, I'd like to ask
you
something you are probably been already asked more than once -so
please
forgive me :-): I am looking for some books to help me improving my
everyday handwriting, as well as I was thinking about taking up
spencerian
or copperplate calligraphy (both tasks are quite challenging for a
young
left-handed, huh?); as there are so many calligraphy-et-similia
books on
amazon that it's impossible to find my right way in there, I think
some of
you could be really helpful with your advice and/or experiences.

Have a happy year again :-)

Roberto

--
Creato con M2, il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera:
http://www.opera.com/m2/

Roberto,

Happy New Year to yourself.
As a left-handed sometimes calligrapher,
I wonder if you realize the monumental challenge before you; the
challenge of copperplate or spencerian I mean. That is certainly
difficult enough for any right handed person, but for the left handed
sane one, almost out of the question:-)

Most handwriting experts today would recommend the Italic handwriting
tradition established in Italy during the renaissance. Many of them
think this method should be taught in or schools today and I'm
inclined to agree. The sad state of penmanship today has most
businesses requesting you to print when filling out forms so they can
be understood.

Spencerian or copperplate is an unnatural form of writing used to
emulate that style developed by the engravers when printing was first
started and has little practicality to recommend it for contemporary
handwriting and legibility. I was taught this style, or penmanship
after this fashion back in the early forties. Using a dip pen and
desks made for righties was a true nightmare. It's a wonder I have
any sanity left and some would question that;-)

On the other hand, Italic has a short learning curve and more
legibility. When basic Italic letter forms are used with a normal
fountain pen it has beauty and simplicity, add to that the use of a
stub or italic nib to the fountain pen, then individuality and beauty
follow.

My recommendation is starting with books. One mentioned previously,
"Write Now" by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay, is a good starting point.
I think it can be found on Amazon. Pay particular attention to those
suggestions for left handers and paper position found on page 10.
Hopefully this will get you off on the right foot, even though some
would say the wrong hand;-)

For examples of calligraphy (beautiful writing) I might suggest
viewing the works by such calligraphers as Jacqueline Svaren. Her
book, "Written Letters", is a masterful example. There are so many
others.

Calligraphy is to the written word like songs are to the spoken.
Terry

--
e-mail address is bogus - remove the "excess"

"Terry McGinty" writes:

Most handwriting experts today would recommend the Italic
handwriting tradition established in Italy during the renaissance.
Many of them think this method should be taught in or schools today
and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm not a handwriting expert by any means, but I'd certainly agree on
the Italic statement. It's easy to learn and efficient to write
with. Far bette rthan the atrocious stuff I had to try to learn 30+
years ago in penmanship class (of course, I'm old enough that
penmanship classes existed in my grade school, and required fountain
pens as of the 4th grade).

For examples of calligraphy (beautiful writing) I might suggest
viewing the works by such calligraphers as Jacqueline Svaren. Her
book, "Written Letters", is a masterful example. There are so many
others.

Calligraphy is to the written word like songs are to the spoken.

While I am not particularly Christian, I would recommend that people
who are interested in calligraphy at all (even if you're not, you
will be after this) explore the information about the St. John's
Bible project- a Bible commissioned by St. John's University in
Minnesota which is being hand-copied in the tradition of the Middle
Ages: by hand, on vellum, using quills and hand-prepared inks. It
will take 7 years and cost $4,000,000.

http://www.saintjohnsbible.org/

Makes me want to get a goose quill!

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message snipped

While I am not particularly Christian, I would recommend that people
who are interested in calligraphy at all (even if you're not, you
will be after this) explore the information about the St. John's
Bible project- a Bible commissioned by St. John's University in
Minnesota which is being hand-copied in the tradition of the Middle
Ages: by hand, on vellum, using quills and hand-prepared inks. It
will take 7 years and cost $4,000,000.

http://www.saintjohnsbible.org/

Makes me want to get a goose quill!

Tim,

Yes, that is an awesome project! I've admired Donald Jackson for
years and have many examples of his work in numerous books on
calligraphy. It is easy to understand why he is the first choice of
the British Royal Family to create most of their ceremonial documents.

For anyone interested in writing and its emergence from the beginnings
to the present his book, "The Story of Writing" is a must have. It
covers everything from evolution of alphabets, ancient scribes,
cutting quills, to present day fountain pens. I think a few examples
of his work are among the many colour plates represented. I got my
copy some time shortly after it was first published in 1981.

Regards,

Terry
--
e-mail address is bogus - remove the "excess"

"Terry McGinty" writes:

Yes, that is an awesome project! I've admired Donald Jackson for
years and have many examples of his work in numerous books on
calligraphy. It is easy to understand why he is the first choice of
the British Royal Family to create most of their ceremonial
documents.

For anyone interested in writing and its emergence from the
beginnings to the present his book, "The Story of Writing" is a must
have. It covers everything from evolution of alphabets, ancient
scribes, cutting quills, to present day fountain pens. I think a
few examples of his work are among the many colour plates
represented. I got my copy some time shortly after it was first
published in 1981.

While this is a fountain pen newsgroup and not a calligraphy
newsgroup- and has been much much quieter since the loss of Da Man- I
think that many of us have an interest in writing and not just in the
pens themselves. My writing is a nice Italic scribble that about a
half-dozen people can read, but seeing things like this make me
really want to write better than I do. I have hopes that my
beautiful pens, even in my hamlike paws, could produce beautiful
writing.

Everybody

just a brief reply to thank all of the exquisite people who answered my
big question both in the newsgroup and backchannel: I got detailed answers
on the very point (and I'll go for the "write now!" book as soon as i find
some dealer who can ship it in Italy in reasonable time) and furthermore
almost all of you added a bit of personal experience and advice,
especially Teryy (I'll try the italic style then, given I am a left-handed
Italian :-) which was extremely valuable as well as enjoyable to read.
One is not likely to get more than he asked for, especially in the
dominated-by-egos internet.

And now the boring part :-): I took a look at the James Pickering pages,
which of course i found absolutely stunning. I noticed that vertical
strokes tend to be thick, while horizontal ones are usually thin: though,
using the very same 1.5 mm Rotring Art Pen, I scribble with thin vertical
and thick horizontal strokes. Moreover, I find it difficult to perform
"strong" line variations (they are not so evident, thus beautiful, as ot
should be).

I fancy practice is the key, right, but i thought this could be due to how
I write: I am a left-handed and neither and over nor an underwriter, I
just push my hand at intervals from left to right through the page (and
doing so I sometimes put my hand on fresh ink :-). This makes me write
with the barrel (and the nib) parallel to the rules of the sheet, so that
it's quite logical horizontal strokes are thick and vertical are thin.
Furthermore, I think I hold the pen in a quite fair way, except for the
fact I put my thumb much farther from the nib than I've seen on most
illustrations, controlling my writing with the "body" of the thumb than
with the "tip" of it. I don't know if this affects my scribbling in a
major way.

I tried to write with the sheet 90° sloped on the right, so that I
simulated a 90° underwriter angle: the strokes seem to be almost correct,
though the line variations are still not as pronunciated as they shoud be.
But obviously such a way of writing is innatural and slow.

So does anybody have some advice for me, especially the left-handed people
out there? (I think that I'll end it up founding, as a 22-year-old newbie,
a "dummy corner" in the newsgroup :-)

Roberto

p.s.: hope i expressed myself clearly enough, and hope you'll forgive any
fail in my weak English..


In data Sun, 04 Jan 2004 21:24:05 -0600, Tim McNamara
ha scritto:

"Terry McGinty" writes:

Yes, that is an awesome project! I've admired Donald Jackson for
years and have many examples of his work in numerous books on
calligraphy. It is easy to understand why he is the first choice of
the British Royal Family to create most of their ceremonial
documents.

For anyone interested in writing and its emergence from the
beginnings to the present his book, "The Story of Writing" is a must
have. It covers everything from evolution of alphabets, ancient
scribes, cutting quills, to present day fountain pens. I think a
few examples of his work are among the many colour plates
represented. I got my copy some time shortly after it was first
published in 1981.

While this is a fountain pen newsgroup and not a calligraphy
newsgroup- and has been much much quieter since the loss of Da Man- I
think that many of us have an interest in writing and not just in the
pens themselves. My writing is a nice Italic scribble that about a
half-dozen people can read, but seeing things like this make me
really want to write better than I do. I have hopes that my
beautiful pens, even in my hamlike paws, could produce beautiful
writing.



--
Creato con M2, il rivoluzionario client e-mail di Opera:
http://www.opera.com/m2/

Roberto Medri, wrote:

I am a left-handed Italiansnip

I do appreciate that most handwriting instruction and reference material is
geared to right handed people, Roberto. I have long wanted to include Practical
Calligraphy information geared to left handed writers on my Web pages. I have
always found it awkward to explain and demonstrate left handed pen holds,
writing position and letter form renditions -- and especially to commit the
information to writing.

I have therefor now included what I believe are excellent online references
covering those subjects as links on my "Basic Writing Techniques" page at .....

http://www.jp29.org/cadr.htm

I don't wish to appear self serving by including that link, but I thought you
might find the information to be useful.

James Pickerg