on handwriting

On Thu, 06 May 2004 22:17:06 GMT, "KCat" wrote:

I wonder though if your handwriting actually has deteriorated and you don't
notice it (because, hey, it's your handwriting) or if people who are aware
of the pens you use now are just more prone to complaining because *they*
believe that the FP is the problem.

But I find that anything but a fine point does make my handwriting
less legible than a ballpoint, at least in most cases. It will close
some letters a bit more as the main fault.

I do disagree about using a calligraphy pen, unless the purppose is to
use a calligraphy pen at all times. Seems to me like practicing
Chinese grass writing with a brush to learn how to write simplified
characters with a ballpoint pen. Just my opinion, but I would practice
with what I'm going to write with later.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"KCat" wrote in message
m...
"Bluesea" wrote

As to the angle, you said that you use a different angle when using a fp
than when you use a bp. The angle at which I hold a writing instrument
doesn't change depending on the instrument whether it be a fp, bp, or
pencil. Being nearly vertical, an angle of 85 degrees seems rather
extreme
anyway.

I think it was intended to sound extreme. my angle of attack is definitely
different with FPs than with pencils or bps. I think, in my case, I feel
that at a higher angle, the pressure to apply pencil/bp to paper is easier
accomplished without straining the hand too much. And with a pencil
especially - a lower angle such as that used by most of the FP users I've
seen would be awkward. I define "most" as the angle on Richard Binder's
forms for customizing pens.

You may be correct about his intention, but then I wouldn't know what his
point might have been. By now, I don't really care. No one complains about
my handwriting so I was merely questioning a difference that he brought up
because I thought it must have been a significant factor or there wouldn't
have been a reason for him to mention it.

Also, he stated, "...every fp user writes with a similar angle than the one
I use...." If that was accurate, Richard's questionnaire wouldn't provide
three angle options (item #2) as does the Nakaya site:
http://www.nakaya.org/ekarte.html. My angle is slightly higher than normal,
about 63 degrees instead of 60, which may or may not account for my not
having to change according to my writing instrument shrug.

All the best.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

Allow me to add a suggestion here... if you are anywhere near a pen
show - GO! Usually there are several vendors (be they collectors like
you and me, or someone in the pen business in some fashion) who will
allow you to try out their pens. Someone like a Susan Wirth will be
able to show you how to properly use the instrument and help you find
the correct instrument and nib for your style of writing. Well worth
the visit. Susan keeps a pen show calendar on her web site:
http://pw1.netcom.com/%7Eswirth/2000.htm

Enjoy!

John
JohnR
Knoxville, TN
johnrich21 @ comcast dot net

Bluesea wrote:
"Juan" wrote in message
om...

The problem seems to be that many people is not familiar with fp
handwriting; at least that's my impression.
As a reference, the handwriting here

http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/ink-02.htm#blue

resembles mine, although my letters are broader.

Any opinions? Juan


Hopefully, the writing on that site looks better in RL than it does on a
computer monitor because, IMO, it's bad enough that I'd refuse to read
anything by anyone who wrote that way. Since your writing is broader, I
might not have such a negative reaction - it's hard to tell w/o actually
seeing it.

I'll side with Juan on this one. OK, the handwriting on the referenced
web page may not go into an exemplar. But heck, in the days before
computers printed everything, that would have been considered highly
legible handwriting. (Unlike mine in those days!)

Perhaps we've raised a generation that can't write longhand, and as a
result can't read longhand.

Pat
--
Apologies to those easily confused. Address is spam-resistant.
Correct email address like pdlamb 'round-about comcast point net.

I see that the handwriting on the website has some of the same
problems that I have been struggling with. The "M", "N" and "U" are
not fully rounded. Notice how the word "Aurora" looks like "Anonia"
or "Airona". The problem is the "n," "m" and "U" are made of angles
and straight lines rather than arches. I recently solved this problem
by slowing down, just for these letters. I practiced making arches
rather than mountains (/\/\/\/\/\) for these letters, a couple hundred
times each. This does not take long. Make no more than 3 or 4
practice arches at a time. Practice arches for "n" and "m" and
reverse arches for "u."

Now I make a conscious effort to slow down on these letters because I
have not yet overcome the bad habits I have developed over the years.
The difference in legibility is remarkable. I am not an expert but I
have studied the work of many experts, and I really beleive that
practicing these shapes will make a big difference for you - or for
the guy on the website.

JDW

KCat wrote:

Rant was well-founded. My daughter probably would be left-handed or at the
least, ambidextrous. She naturally picked up writing instruments in her
left hand and even in 1990 teachers were still grabbing crayons out of left
hands and shoving them into right hands. grrrr...

as a result, my daughter writes with her right hand but turns the paper
"parallel" to the plane of her body and curls her right hand around in what
would appear to be an excruciating position. But her handwriting is much
neater than mine will ever be. :P

This is just what happened to my father in I guess about 1914, and he
wrote with his right hand in about the way you describe. His
handwriting was a very much neater than mine is when I make it slope to
the right and even somewhat neater than when I make it slope to the
left.

By the way, I'd still like to know the answer to the question I asked
morten. I'd like to know more about the new method of teaching
left-handed people to write that he mentioned.

--
David W. Drake

On Thu, 06 May 2004 20:28:42 -0400, JohnR
wrote:

Allow me to add a suggestion here... if you are anywhere near a pen
show - GO! Usually there are several vendors (be they collectors like
you and me, or someone in the pen business in some fashion) who will
allow you to try out their pens. Someone like a Susan Wirth will be
able to show you how to properly use the instrument and help you find
the correct instrument and nib for your style of writing. Well worth
the visit. Susan keeps a pen show calendar on her web site:
http://pw1.netcom.com/%7Eswirth/2000.htm

I will definitely go when something pops up nearby. As for finding the
correct instrument, I hope I can change my style of writing before I
pick a tool. I don't deserve a good pen quite yet.

--
Be seeing you.

On Thu, 06 May 2004 19:31:25 -0500, Patrick Lamb
wrote:

[...]

Perhaps we've raised a generation that can't write longhand, and as a
result can't read longhand.

That's certainly true for me. My grandmother writes like that, and I
have a really hard time reading it when she sends me letters.

--
Be seeing you.

"Patrick Lamb" wrote in message
...
Bluesea wrote:
"Juan" wrote in message
om...

The problem seems to be that many people is not familiar with fp
handwriting; at least that's my impression.
As a reference, the handwriting here

http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/ink-02.htm#blue

resembles mine, although my letters are broader.

Any opinions? Juan


Hopefully, the writing on that site looks better in RL than it does on a
computer monitor because, IMO, it's bad enough that I'd refuse to read
anything by anyone who wrote that way. Since your writing is broader, I
might not have such a negative reaction - it's hard to tell w/o actually
seeing it.

I'll side with Juan on this one. OK, the handwriting on the referenced
web page may not go into an exemplar. But heck, in the days before
computers printed everything, that would have been considered highly
legible handwriting. (Unlike mine in those days!)

Not around the people I've known, it wouldn't.

Perhaps we've raised a generation that can't write longhand, and as a
result can't read longhand.

I didn't get that because he wrote, "The problem seems to be that many
people is not familiar with fp handwriting; at least that's my impression"
and not that the problem seems to be that many people aren't familiar with
longhand or cursive, etc. In fact, the two sentences above (which were
snipped) indicate to me that there hasn't been a problem when he writes with
a bp.


--
~~Bluesea~~still shrugging
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

I am with Mark Z on this one.
If I am rushing I will be lucky to read whatever I am writing later (good
luck to anyone else).
If I slow down and think about forming my letters my penmanship is almost
something to be proud of.
Take your time, and Take Care, Ken..

"mz" wrote in message
...
Juan wrote:

Hi, I recently have received some "complaints" from some friends and
coworkers about my handwriting. It is cursive, and I use F/M nibs (of
course fps). What's going on? My handwriting is not bad; it is not
like that rounded and separated letters some (most) people use though.
A coworker even suggested me to use printing (!!!???)
Do I have to pretend I'm in kindergarden so as my handwriting can be
read or what? Has anyone had similar experiences?

Note: I know that since you haven't seen my handwriting it might seem
hard to have an opinion, but trust me, it is not bad, just cursive
with a fountain pen.

Juan

Handwriting is a means of communication first and foremost. If
others can't read it, then it fails at its primary function
regardless of whether you can read it yourself or like its
"look." That said, it doesn't mean you have to revert to
printing. Having suffered from the same type of problem,
others found my cursive writing became much more legible when
I slowed down my writing. That alone resulted in more time
spent forming each letter, producing the desired result:
legibility. Whether that works for you or not, it seems some
type of adjustment is needed.

Mark Z.