How Things Have Changed

Again, you and others ignored that election. People held up their ink
stained fingers in the un-PC "V" all over Iraq that day just after voting
while waving both Iraqi and American flags. They also risked their lives by
doing this...and made no effort to hide their faces from the cameras whether
or not they were female or male. In fact, it seems many women in Iraq now
enjoy NOT being veiled more than ever before...

You assume we did not liberate. This assumption invalidates all the free
elections that have taken place in other countries America has liberated
from tyranny: Germany, France, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc... IMO it
is a fundamentally incorrect assumption. WE ARE LIBERATORS. It is the
meaning and essence of our nation from the declaration of independence to
the current day! There were wolf packs of ex-SS officers shooting at us in
Germany for years after the war ended - in fact the New York Times claimed
we had "lost" Germany in seven editorials between 1945 and 1948. Sound
familiar?

So - we have a fundamental disagreement, and are both free to say so. ;-)



"*david*" wrote in message
ups.com...
Isn't the PR ink called Avacado after a woman named Ava?

The v-for victory sign on Nathan's bottle is a sign for American
victory over the Iraqis, and has little to do with Iraqi freedom. If a
"free" U.S. election was held with a foreign army in the streets, would
the result be recognized by Americans? I hope not.

can also use a sign of illiteracy (a finger dipped in ink for signing)
to advertize fountain pen ink. As I said, advertizing is a weird thing.

PS: I like the way some Noodlers inks look like. Really.

Juan


Glad you do like at least something about Noodler's! :-)

Fingerprinting is a quick and relatively certain way to prevent voter
fraud - as the Iraqis are among the most educated people in the middle
east...and have a high literacy rate (for the region) of about 60%...keeping
in mind that women in the region are treated poorly and have a much higher
illiteracy rate than men. The rights of women in the middle east are not of
concern to some countries - but to me, well...Susan B. Anthony and Gloria
Stanton have things in common with me and my heritage here in Massachusetts.
I don't think they would be members of the PC today, either. Iraqi women
voting - and hopefully one day, all women voting...is not something to be
feared or loathed! There is no need to look down on the Iraqis and to
insult them. Look how far Germany and Japan have come - as well as Spain
after the dictatorship of Franco...

Nobody is going to get rich on fountain pen ink. It might be more of a goal
to help defend and protect a hobby I love & grew up with than to be a
profiteer...not that I am not a capitalist, but there comes a time when
other things matter more than money and the typical business procedures and
beliefs one is "supposed" to follow. Thus, Iraqi Indigo will have that
label for a long time - provided I'm still alive to see that it remains
there. Interestingly, there are more requests for it in my e-mail from
countries such as Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey and Saudi Arabia than I
thought were possible...if only the same people could recognize each other
on a map too we might be getting somewhere!

Heck, if that islamofascist in the Emirates kills me over using the image of
the Blue Mosque on a label for simple fountain pen ink, just think....every
Noodler's bottle will then become a more valued limited edition! (Yes, I
sometimes have dark humor.) I probably made it worse by asking him to go
public with his threat - I figure it would be good for business if he
did...and if he does come here, he'll learn that not all Americans are as
weak as he claims they are....

If they were made by computer with complete certainty, that would be fine -
but as it is....there are more variables than that between the small
production runs that exist (the smallest ink company in the world,
afterall). Thus, the best indication of color is a color swatch at a pen
show or at the retailer of the ink...because even computer monitors have
variations in color between them. Alas, with certain ball pens they have
production runs in the millions...and thus the ink is consistent enough to
be pigeonholed right down to the pixel on a standardized chart of thousands
of colors...

"Sonam Dasara" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:27:10 GMT, Noodler typed:

*bad taste* (Tiananmen, Iraqi
Indigo...).

Personally I could care less about the implications of what fanciful
names you name your inks.

But what I would really like to see from *all* ink makers is a
realistic description of the ink color - maybe even with a Pantone
number reference in place of the meaningless names many give their
inks.

After all, I do hope that you realize that people buy the inks for
their *color*, not for (or perhaps in spite of) the cute name....

--
Cordially,

Sonam Dasara
10/3/2005 4:41:42 PM

I think Sam would. I know she's a fan of the ink... ;-) The batches
are so small in volume that she has (not always joking, either) "more Iraqi
Indigo than the manufacturer does" - it's costly stuff to make and the
inventory is kept as slim as possible.

Keep in mind each computer monitor also seems to have many
variables....along with cameras, incandescent bulbs vrs. halogens vrs.
natural light...vrs. a strobe....it all adds up to huge variables. I'm not
the best photographer - sometimes absentmindedly forget to turn off the
fluorescent bulbs and it tints the colors of the pen or ink being
photographed.



"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Nathan,

Speaking about Iraqi Indigo....

I stumbled across a review of that ink on a forum where the poster had
placed a scanned image. His sample seemed WAY more vibrant and purple than
the swatch on your website.....

So now I wonder which it is.

I also noticed that the photo of Legal Lapis appears much more blue on the
paper in water than your other examples.

I suppose the next logical question is, do you ever send out sample
swatches?

Thanks,

Bruce

A declaration of independence means that your ancestors decided to run
their own country rather than submit to foreign governments and foreign
armies any longer. Those Iraqis who are still resisting their invaders
are the most authentically American of all the people over there, more
true to the American spirit than the Americans themselves.

"Nellie Paris" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:52:28 GMT, Bruce wrote:

Nathan,

Speaking about Iraqi Indigo....

I stumbled across a review of that ink on a forum where the poster had
placed a scanned image. His sample seemed WAY more vibrant and purple than
the swatch on your website.....

So now I wonder which it is.

I also noticed that the photo of Legal Lapis appears much more blue on the
paper in water than your other examples.

I suppose the next logical question is, do you ever send out sample
swatches?

MY Legal Lapis is a dark turquoise, a bit like Blue Suede, very
different from my first bottle of LL which was more of a blue black.
I enjoy variations and love almost any color, so I have no complaints
as long as there is not mold.

Nellie Paris

Only a 3% change can explain that change in the reflection of light - so
unless it is under electronic control systems, with massive volumes in
production....and higher costs... ;-(
Specialty ink is low volume and subject to more variables by definition -
often not even being attempted due to the lower profit (if any) some odd and
unusual ink concepts pose to the major manufacturers. If you care more
about the ink than profit, more variety slips by into actual production or
at least trial runs.... If we ever introduce temperature sensitive inks
(your holiday card changing from red to green script each time the heating
system activates on a cold winter night - and back to red as the air cools
again) and light sensitive inks (purple under the fluorescent bulb, green in
daylight, red under an incandescent - all colors from the same ink under
different light sources) they will be in single ounce bottles and in
extremely limited production runs. The act of finding some raw materials
seems to be like a treasure hunt that lasts forever....

As to mold, it behaves like a disinfectant in testing now. ;-)

"*david*" wrote in message
oups.com...
A declaration of independence means that your ancestors decided to run
their own country rather than submit to foreign governments and foreign
armies any longer. Those Iraqis who are still resisting their invaders
are the most authentically American of all the people over there, more
true to the American spirit than the Americans themselves.


Yes, they are....resisting their invaders from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia,
Egypt, and Yemen...to name a few....who indiscriminately blow themselves up
with women, children, civilians in general....destroying schools, hospitals,
and places of employment...cut off the heads of innocent people before the
greedy eyes of a sick global media that is their constant ideological if not
active friend and ally in terror...and seem to take great pleasure in
fomenting religious and civil strife through acts of 9th century dark aged
barbarism beyond the recognition of the civilized mind.

The Germans and Japanese were also "more American" to shoot at the
"invaders" in 1945 as well, by such logic... Hitler was somebody to die for
as was Saddam Hussein? You seriously believe such things?

Noodler wrote:
Again, you and others ignored that election. People held up their ink
stained fingers in the un-PC "V" all over Iraq that day just after voting
while waving both Iraqi and American flags. They also risked their lives by
doing this...and made no effort to hide their faces from the cameras whether
or not they were female or male. In fact, it seems many women in Iraq now
enjoy NOT being veiled more than ever before...

You assume we did not liberate. This assumption invalidates all the free
elections that have taken place in other countries America has liberated
from tyranny: Germany, France, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc... IMO it
is a fundamentally incorrect assumption. WE ARE LIBERATORS. It is the
meaning and essence of our nation from the declaration of independence to
the current day! There were wolf packs of ex-SS officers shooting at us in
Germany for years after the war ended - in fact the New York Times claimed
we had "lost" Germany in seven editorials between 1945 and 1948. Sound
familiar?

So - we have a fundamental disagreement, and are both free to say so. ;-)

Natham, I didn't say you didn't liberate Iraq. But even in the most
optimistic mood, one could only say that Iraq is *in the process* of
democracy, and -sadly- that process isn't going to last a couple of
weeks. As I said in another post, people voting doesn't mean democracy.

Someone said I might be a oversensitive person or something. I wouldn't
say so; in any case I'm someone who doesn't shut up when I think
something has to be said (yes, like those Iraqi women).

Although I'm only 34 and only lived the last 5 years of Franco's
dictator****, I know a couple of things about those *******s: I've had
relatives killed by them (one of them in a nazi camp -we never knew
which one-). I've grown up in a small town where the old man crossing
the streets killed women and babies, and the baker's had her mother
covered in boiling oil, and... After all, it's a war that Hemingway
defined as the most devastating war so far.

I really admire your (or anyone's) dedication to anything related to
FPs. Writing and reading are probably the best weapons against fascism,
unique thought and all that.

I started this thread because all the posts were about the same 3 or 4
pens, and all the ink talking was Noodler's. I missed the times when
posts were more diverse. That's all. It surprised me that something
that was the nature of FP ink (remember "colour water"?), had been
removed, and everyone was excited about that. It's sort of making
celluloid which is not flammable or silver which doesn't tarnish. Many
people love their silver pens although they may have to clean them from
time to time. Many people love their celluloid pens although they're
delicate and are made with a living material. It's the way it has been,
and people have loved those pens despite those "flaws".

Now, Noodler's inks has some advantages in some contexts; I agree. But
putting down the properties of inks that have -literally- wrote pages
and pages in History, and which -ironically- have passed the test of
time no matter how much they faded out; that's another story.

Now, you have to admit: 40 posts in 3 days. When was the last time you
saw this in accp?. And even better: different opinions without
trolling, insults, lies...

When I said I liked some of your inks, it was totally true (although
I'm a blue ink user). I wish you the best in your effort to spread the
love for writing and FPs.

Juan



"*david*" wrote in message
ups.com...
Isn't the PR ink called Avacado after a woman named Ava?

The v-for victory sign on Nathan's bottle is a sign for American
victory over the Iraqis, and has little to do with Iraqi freedom. If a
"free" U.S. election was held with a foreign army in the streets, would
the result be recognized by Americans? I hope not.

Oh, before someone accuses me, saying that fascists and nazis are
*******s doesn't count as insults. Being redundant in any case.

Juan

Since I haven't seen a reply to Roger's last question, I'm going to
chime in here - I have several bottles of these inks. My impression is
that for my practical purposes the permanence is the same, but that the
coloured inks are a bit less perfectly-behaved coming out of the pen
than the black is - the line on the blues and purples tends to be a bit
wider than you'd expect from a given pen, and the colours are not the
same high intensity and clarity as the standard Noodlers colours. Note
that I see no feathering here, simply a widening of the line, and that
the colours of these inks are very nice and not washed-out looking at
all, just not as bright as his other ones.

The black is to me the best-performing and darkest black I have ever
used, and I can find no disadvantage to it at all. (Unless you prefer a
washed-out look - Noodler's won't really help you there.) :-)

Keep in mind that some of this information may be out of date when a
new improved batch comes along.