Ink Question

My problem is this. If it dries on a page and can't be washed off - ie
is virtually insoluble in water - then how on earth can it be washed out
of a pen if the ink is inadvertently left to dry in one?

In a gross over-simplification - probably in the same way that spaghetti
sauce will rinse off a dish but leave a nasty stain on a cotton tablecloth.

Yeah - Nathan's and other responses are more scientific but I think it's
being made a lot less complex than it really is.

I use Nalgene jars for ink storage which are plastic. The plastic is
formulated and treated to prevent proteins and dyes from sticking to them.
Some of the most notorious inks have resided in these jars (Penman, PR Hot
Bubble Gum, WM Violet) and rinsed out easily. I'm not sayin' pens have same
properties - just pointing out that when talking about adhesion and staining
properties - you just can't expect paper and plastic to behave in the same
manner.

on that note... Paper or Plastic? :P

kcat

the man said...

(a bunch of good stuff the impracticality of ink prejudice)

Good night to all.....

And the crowd breathed a soft "Amen." Rest easy - your efforts and your
inks are appreciated by a large number of folks.

I love Saguaro Wine, BTB.

Sonam Dasara wrote:

That's fascinating! I'm barred in NJ and PA and there are no
requirements here about ink color. After reading your reply, I asked the
guys in our NY office, and there are no ink color requirements there
either.
They were amazed when I mentioned your reply.

I guess that some states do have that requirement, and I don't know
why - I'm certain that you know most document disputes are based upon
impersonation or a clear forgery combined with a faulty/false/fraudulent
jurat.

Hi Sonam,

I just did a quick "Google" search for "Blue-ink" signature requirements and
found several instances where blue ink was required for an "official" or
"legal" signature. Here is a link to one such requirement by the New York
State Unified Court System.

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/admin/...ructions.shtml

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Chuck Swisher at

Swisher Pens, Inc. - www.swisherpens.com

Tele: (757) 539-2209
TF: 1-888-340-PENS (7367)
Fax: (757) 925-2787 Hi Curtis,

Hi Gordon,

In article , Gordon
wrote:

Sounds like Nathan's ink is based upon a reactive dye. Try a Google search
on this term and you'll find a huge amount of inforation on the subject.
Reactive dyes have been around for many years and provided the ones he uses
exhibit long term stability in solution, I've no doubt they will do exactly
what it says on the tin. RD's can be designed to react very specifically
with particular materials and I would have thought using them as the basis
for ink is a very neat idea.

I was thinking the same thing!

As an example... my wife occasionally does some tie-dye and works with
some GREAT dyes that are sold by The Dharma Trading Company
(http://www.dharmatrading.com/). Their dyes, used for cotton fabrics,
are called "Fiber Reactive Procion Dyes." She has been using them for
quite a while and they work much better than the old Rit dyes like you
can get from the drug store.

It's entirely concievable that Nathan's ink would be formulated in such
a way that they react or bond just to the materials found in paper
construction, but not bond to anything else.

It's a very cool idea. I already have mine on order from Swisher's.

--gordy

Gordon Tillman writes:

It's a very cool idea. I already have mine on order from Swisher's.

I suspect that Swisher got a big surge in requests for it right
after that post went out...

--
Mark Atwood | When you do things right, people won't be sure
| you've done anything at all.
http://www.pobox.com/~mra | http://www.livejournal.com/users/fallenpegasus

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004,21:59:34, Mark Atwood wrote

Tony Stanford writes:

And you've answered it. When you have a UK distributor, I'll be first
in line for Noodlers black, my favourite colour.

Swisher ships internationally.

I know, and they offer a superb and friendly service, as I found in the
past when I bought pens from them. But the cost of shipping ink is more
than the ink is worth.

I mean ... it's just coloured water, right? (Acknowledgement to Frank.)

Tony
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On Tue, 27 Apr 2004,21:55:50, Tim McNamara wrote
What I've gathered is that the ink contains an agent that binds to
cellulose and to nothing (or almost nothing) else, trapping the black
dye in the process.

Yes, so I gathered from Nathan's later and more detailed post. Clever
stuff, eh?

Tony

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On Wed, 28 Apr 2004,04:42:05, Scaupaug wrote

[Snip lots of good stuff]

Nathan - I'm quite convinced. As a fan of black ink, I'd *love* some
that doesn't fade. Trouble is, shipping costs are too much to the UK.

You say you have not yet got a UK supplier. Do you have a European
supplier? Shipping costs are much cheaper from Europe.

Please let me know.

Tony Stanford.
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"Gordon" wrote in message
...
Sounds like Nathan's ink is based upon a reactive dye. Try a Google search
on this term and you'll find a huge amount of inforation on the subject.
Reactive dyes have been around for many years and provided the ones he
uses
exhibit long term stability in solution, I've no doubt they will do
exactly
what it says on the tin. RD's can be designed to react very specifically
with particular materials and I would have thought using them as the basis
for ink is a very neat idea.

Gordon

Just a further thought on this subject and that concerns the long term
stability of the ink as produced. I've used reactive dyes in the past for
silk painting and generally made up a solution that gets used in a couple of
days. Most of the manufacturers advise that these dyes have a shelf life of
months, if not years, when in powder form, but this reduces to days when in
solution. One or two state up to 3 months but I have been unable to find any
that claim to last beyond this. I have no idea what the effects of long
term storage would be but I'd be interested to be reassured that Nathan's
inks will last the course. I recall Frank stating numerous times in this
group that inks such as Skrip could be stored for many years with no
noticeable deterioration.

Reactive dyes do look like the way to go for permenance on paper and I for
one am very tempted to carry out home experiments in this area, as they are
easily available even in a backwater like rural Suffolk (lots of arty farty
types out here who delight in dying anything that'll stand still long
enough, and a few that won't). Better get the stuff shipped to the UK soon,
Nathan, or we'll all be brewing our own!

Gordon

C. wrote:

snip

I am old enough to recall my grandfather keeping two sets of pens, one
filled with regular ink, and one with what he called "permanent" ink.
For routine matters, he used regular, washable ink. However for certain
things, I recall he would use the permanent ink; in fact I had the
impression it was a requirement. He kept these pens in his right shirt
pocket, while the washable ones were in his left pocket. I believe this
was a regular practice prior to the mass advent of ball points, and
there must have been cleaning regimes since lost for fountain pens with
permanent ink. I have some vintage inks, and one is "Skrip Writing
Fluid" described as a permanent "successor to ink". An advertisement for
the Sheaffer Snorkel pen appears on the top of the box.


If I recall correctly, washable and permanent for inks such as
vintage Skrip and Quink were used differently than you imply.
Those terms referred to whether they could be washed easily
off fabrics. Washable could be washed off within a short
period of time but with time would become just as permanent as
the version labeled permanent. A search of Google groups for
this newsgroup should provide more info.

Mark Z.