USS Liberty

On Apr 6, 6:25*pm, "Beanie" wrote:
Israel is a terrorist state and should be dealt with as such.

You are a liar, Beanie!

The Palestinian people were kicked out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, and
out of Syria not by Jews or Israel, but by their fellow Arabs. Then
the three got together and said don't worry we will give your people
the land that Israel now occupies once we destroy them. Slight problem
in only 7 days the Israeli military destroyed the military of all
three in thier attack.

After decades of suicide bombings of their civilians, the Israeli
government decided to once again negotiate. Israel decided to give
back land that it had won during the war and had used to establish a
buffer zone between its people and The Palestinian people were kicked
out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, and out of Syria not by Jews or Israel,
but by their fellow Arabs. Then the three got together and said don't
worry we will give your people the land that Israel now occupies once
we destroy them. Slight problem in only 7 days the Israeli military
destroyed the military of all three in thier attack.

After decades of suicide bombings of their civilians, the Israeli
government decided to once again negotiate. Israel decided to give
back land that it had won during the war and had used to establish a
buffer zone between its people and the terrorists. Hell, Israel even
used its own military to forcefully remove its own citizens from this
occupied land.

You are a liar, Beanie!

The Palestinian people were kicked out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, and
out of Syria not by Jews or Israel, but by their fellow Arabs. Then
the three got together and said don't worry we will give your people
the land that Israel now occupies once we destroy them. Slight problem
in only 7 days the Israeli military destroyed the military of all
three in thier attack.

After decades of suicide bombings of their civilians, the Israeli
government decided to once again negotiate. Israel decided to give
back land that it had won during the war and had used to establish a
buffer zone between its people and The Palestinian people were kicked
out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, and out of Syria not by Jews or Israel,
but by their fellow Arabs. Then the three got together and said don't
worry we will give your people the land that Israel now occupies once
we destroy them. Slight problem in only 7 days the Israeli military
destroyed the military of all three in thier attack.

After decades of suicide bombings of their civilians, the Israeli
government decided to once again negotiate. Israel decided to give
back land that it had won during the war and had used to establish a
buffer zone between its people and the terrorists. Hell, Israel even
used its own military to forcefully remove its own citizens from this
occupied land.

Israel gave in to the demands of the Palenstinians. However, Hamas had
different plans. Instead of abiding by the terms of the cease fire,
they once again began to fire rockets into Israel. This time Israel
said enough is enough. If you want to fire rockets at our people we
will attack you. And now they have. Hamas being the cowards that they
are, hide behind civilians. They store their weapons in the homes of
woman and children and then use the woman and children as human
shields. They hide their weapons in government buildings, in schools
and in Mosques. Israel said not this time. If these are your actions
we will still attack. If we harm civilians it is not our fault but
yours thanks to your own cowardly actions.

Backed by Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah think that Israel will cave,
however, they have found that Israel has decided against it. The
Palenstinians do not want to live in peace next to Israel, instead
they support Hamas and Hezbollah and their belief that the nation of
Israel should be removed from the face of the planet.

I sympathize with the Palenstinian civilians and the horrors they
face, however, they have brought it upon themselves by not standing
against the tactics used by Hamas and Hezbollah. Now they are seeing
what happens when you allow terrorist to kill and then protect them.

Try your lies somewhere else, Like it or not the nation of Israel has
the right to exist, it has the right to defend its citizens and it has
the right to hunt down and kill those who seek to destroy it.

"Beanie" wrote in message ...
Israel is a terrorist state and should be dealt with as such.

The Promises belonged to Israel first

Romans 9:
1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me
witness in the Holy Ghost,
2: That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3: For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and
the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the
promises;
5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

By looking at the scriptures above it is easy to understand that the
promises all belong to Israel. Israel was not the kingdom of God, but was in
the kingdom of God. We are not grafted into them but into the kingdom of God
that they already belonged to. When Jesus came those in Israel that did not
receive him were cast out of the kingdom of God and God allowed the Gentiles
to come in. We are very blessed indeed, but we did not replace Israel.
Israel was suppose to be first in the Covenant but for the most part
rejected Jesus. Because of this, God concluded them "all" in blindness so
that he could save the Gentiles. This is what Jesus was talking about when
he said that the first would be last and the last first.

This is saying that although Israel should have been saved first it was the
Gentiles that became first and Israel would be saved last. But Israel is
still in the promises of God. And will come in during the last days to be
saved. In the scripture God promises to rapture the Church. All of the
promises in the teachings of Jesus were given directly to them first. His
disciples were all Jews. It was promised to them to be in the Rapture of the
Church.

The reason I believe that our Bible teachers in the past were anti-Semitic
is because they knew this and yet they were eager to cut Israel out of the
Rapture. They also realized that to cut Israel out of the Rapture was to cut
them out of the Resurrection as well. This could only come from anti-Semitic
resentment. When they saw that this was the case in their teachings they
should have studied the Bible more to see what the real truth of it was. How
do you think that the Twelve Disciples, the Apostle Paul along with the
other Apostles, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would view this teaching?

The First Rapture Scriptures in the Bible was to Israel

Isaiah 26:
15: Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation:
thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the
earth.
This is Israel and God has increased the nation by restoring Israel as it is
today. But has increased them in another way and that is by restoring them
to God through Jesus Christ. Many have been born again at this time.

16: LORD, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when
thy chastening was upon them.
It is in trouble that they call on God. This trouble is the Tribulation and
the invasion of the anti-Christ. This will be the straw that breaks the
camels back as the old expression goes. They begin to search what has gone
wrong. In their searching they will realize that they were wrong about Jesus
and will repent and turn to him for salvation.

17: Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery,
is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O
LORD.
This being as a woman with child is speaking of birth pains. These birth
pains are speaking of the suffering that will cause Israel to bring forth
children to God. It is the same as verse 16 in that it shows what will cause
the salvation of Israel.

18: We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were
brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth;
neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen.
Because Israel has been reborn at this time they realize that the return of
Jesus will be very soon. They are saying that since millions of them have
been born again, why are they not given the opportunity to do anything for
God before the return of Christ? What isn't mentioned here is told in other
places in scripture that shows that Israel will help take the Gospel to the
world during the last few years of the Tribulation period.

19: Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise.
Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.
This speaks of the resurrection of the dead and it is speaking of the first
resurrection, not the second. This will occur at the very end of the
Tribulation period when the whole Church both Jew and Gentile alike will be
caught up together.

20: Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about
thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be
overpast.
Since verse 19 was speaking of the time of the resurrection we know that the
resurrection is only part of the event that we know as the rapture of the
Church. "Thy chambers" is speaking of being in heaven itself while we all
eat the marriage supper of Lamb.

21: For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants
of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood,
and shall no more cover her slain.
While they are in heaven with the gentiles who have been saved they will all
eat the marriage supper of the Lamb. While this event is taking place in
heaven earthquakes and great hail will fall upon the earth. After the
marriage supper Christ will return with the saints to Armageddon and to
bring judgement at the judgement seat of Christ.

The teaching that the rapture of the Church takes place before the
Tribulation leaves Israel out of the Rapture and the marriage supper of
Lamb. This teaching is so full of Gentile pride it is a wonder we are not
cut off the same as Israel was in their day. Those that teach that Israel is
going to stay in a box canyon (Petra) for the last 3 and 1/2 years would
certainly like to believe that Israel doesn't get to do any work for Jesus.
The scriptures above seem to back it up in the sense that Israel feels that
they have come into the kingdom so late that they won't be able to do
anything for Christ. But, before we are finished we will prove that this is
not the case.

Here is another witness of Israel in the Rapture of the Church

Daniel 12:
1: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth
for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such
as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that
time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in
the book.
Thy people is speaking of Israel, Daniel's people. Israel will escape the
anti-Christ and will be born again. All names whether Jew or Gentile is
written in the book from the foundation of the earth.

2: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to
everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
This is the resurrection of the dead and since it is, the rapture of the
Church takes place at the same time. It is the first Resurrection. Those who
are risen "to shame and everlasting contempt" are risen in the second
Resurrection a thousand years later.

3: And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and
they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Notice "they that turn many to righteousness", sounds like soul winning to
me.

Does Israel get to do anything for God?

Daniel 12:
7: And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the
river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and
sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an
half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy
people, all these things shall be finished.

After the power of Daniel's people is scattered then all things will come to
an end. It will be over. To understand this we must use the King James
Version of the Bible. The reason being is that other translators were unable
to see what this was speaking of and thought that "smashed or shatter" would
be better words to describe it. Especially since it's Israel, we'll just
smash them, they have it coming, right? No, they don't, and the correct word
for this is "scattered." The power of Daniel's people is the same power that
we have today through the Gospel of Jesus Christ and some of the following
scriptures define it. The end will not come until it is scattered throughout
the earth, and the Jews will get to help us scatter it.

Matthew 24: 14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the
world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Rom:1:16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power
of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and
also to the Greek.
1Cor:1:18: For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish
foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Cor:1:24: But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the
power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Cor:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the
power of God.

Israel sharing the Gospel to the Nations, followed by Armageddon

Isaiah 66:
19: And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of
them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to
Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame,
neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the
Gentiles.
20: And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out
of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules,
and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the
children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the
LORD.
21: And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the
LORD.
22: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall
remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from
one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the
LORD.
24: And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have
transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their
fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These scriptures are described by many theologians as Israel taking the
Gospel during the thousand-year reign of Christ. But this must happen before
the millennial reign begins. Why? Because the scriptures tell us that every
knee is going to bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord at
his coming. Jesus comes before the millennial reign begins and during that
reign everyone in the world is commanded to come to Jerusalem once a year to
see Jesus. Who in the world during that time is not going to have heard of
his fame or glory?

Verse 20 is an allegory of Israel getting men to Jesus anyway they can. In
that day they had no knowledge of the transportation that we have today. It
is a shadow of the work of Israel in sharing the Gospel to the nations. All
of this is finished in verse 24 viewing the destruction of the millions who
are killed at the return of Christ at Armageddon. We are reminded that these
dead men are in Hell where their fire is not quenched.

Finally we must go back to what Paul said about Israel's salvation.
Romans 11: 26: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from
Jacob:
27: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
29: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

By looking at the above scriptures we see that Israel is given the same
exact covenant that we are in, and that the gifts and callings of God are
without repentance. Their gifts and callings are the same as ours: the gift
of eternal life and the call to take the Gospel to the World.

We have one dispensation of Grace and that is to save both Jew and Gentile.
The fullness of the Gentile described in Romans 11 is speaking of the time
that the Gentiles will finally share Jesus with the Jew.
Paul explained God's plan to save the whole world in Romans 11:
30: For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained
mercy through their unbelief:
31: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they
also may obtain mercy.
32: For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy
upon all.

This is saying that we received Christ because Israel rejected him, but the
day will come that we would have mercy and give the Gospel to the them so
that they can be saved as well. He did this so that he could have mercy upon
all, both Jew and Gentile. In a sense we are indebted to Israel because of
their rejection. Had they not rejected Jesus the Gospel the Gentiles would
not have received Christ first, it would have been us coming in at the end
of the age. The door for both Jew and Gentile will be open until Jesus comes
back to gather the Church and resurrect the dead.

We must realize that it is cold blooded to leave any race out of the rapture
of the Church whether we are able to understand all of the promises or not.
God is without respect of persons. Red and Yellow, Black or White they are
precious in his sight. God so loved the world and that includes Israel as
well. We must be born again in order to do this, but Israel is going to come
in.
The Bible describes this happing in one of the parables of Jesus. Jesus told
the story of laborers who worked in the field all day for a penny. In the
afternoon after the day was almost gone, others came in and wanted to work
as well. He put them to work and in a short time the day was over and he
gave everyone a penny for their labor. This is a shadow of Israel coming
into the kingdom to work for Jesus in the last days. Their reward will be
eternal life just the same as everyone else. In this story those who had
been laboring the longest thought that God should have given them more since
they had been working longer. God is teaching the Gentiles not to be
resentful when Israel does come in at the last minute to work for him. He
will be very pleased when they do.

Israel butchers innocent Palestinians every day.
It is a terrorist state, illegally seized from its rightful owners by the United
Nations.
Israel should be destroyed.

On Apr 6, 8:27*pm, "Pete Smith" wrote:
The Promises belonged to Israel first

Romans 9:
1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me
witness in the Holy Ghost,
2: That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3: For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and
the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the
promises;
5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. ... & etc.



I enjoyed reading your remarks.

I think there is also an easily accessible secular view of some of the
points you make that is given by Bernard Lewis. He says
(approximately) that it was really the British that took the holy land
and the Jews that took the land from the British. The extent to which
one seems a better view may depend on the spirit with which one
approaches the topic.

Still, if you insist on trying to educate Beanie with Bible verses,
may I mention Matthew 7:6 (Do not give holy things to dogs. Do not
throw your valuable things to pigs. If you do that, the pigs will walk
all over them. Then those pigs may turn round and tear you to
pieces.)?

Also I think a shorter version of your main point is John 4:22.

Responding to: Peter

On Apr 6, 8:27Â*pm, "Pete Smith" wrote:
The Promises belonged to Israel first

Romans 9:
1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me
witness in the Holy Ghost,
2: That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3: For
I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my
kinsmen according to the flesh:
4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory,
and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God,
and the promises;
5: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ
came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. ... & etc.



I enjoyed reading your remarks.

I think there is also an easily accessible secular view of some of the
points you make that is given by Bernard Lewis. He says (approximately)
that it was really the British that took the holy land and the Jews that
took the land from the British. The extent to which one seems a better
view may depend on the spirit with which one approaches the topic.

Still, if you insist on trying to educate Beanie with Bible verses, may
I mention Matthew 7:6 (Do not give holy things to dogs. Do not throw
your valuable things to pigs. If you do that, the pigs will walk all
over them. Then those pigs may turn round and tear you to pieces.)?

Also I think a shorter version of your main point is John 4:22.


Pity its all just nonsense from a Big Book of Bull**** compiled by "Queen
James" to defend his claimed divine right to rule.

Feel free to provide evidence that any of it is based on fact and not
paranoid supertitious fantasy though.

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

--
*=( http://www.churchofreality.org/

"Beanie" wrote in message ...
Israel butchers innocent Palestinians every day.
It is a terrorist state, illegally seized from its rightful owners by the
United Nations.
Israel should be destroyed.

Israel is under constant attack every day! they have shown more restriant
then any other nation,they havent launched any of their nukes.

Responding to: Karen Stephens

"Beanie" wrote in message
...
Israel butchers innocent Palestinians every day. It is a terrorist
state, illegally seized from its rightful owners by the United Nations.
Israel should be destroyed.

Israel is under constant attack every day! they have shown more
restriant then any other nation,they havent launched any of their nukes.


Israel is on the attack every day, and cannot use nukes as this would
rapidly escalate beyond control. IOW, they'd be blown off the map in one
day.

So, why is this on rec.collecting.coins and xposted to alt.conspiracy ?

Did somebody want to start a flame war?

--
*=( http://www.churchofreality.org/

On Apr 7, 3:23*pm, "Beanie" wrote:
Israel butchers innocent Palestinians every day.
It is a terrorist state, illegally seized from its rightful owners by the United
Nations.
Israel should be destroyed.



These posts are traced to the following service addresses


Finnan Robert
11 Cromwell Pl
Cromwell Pl Sea Cliff NY 11579
516-674-8733

Jimenez Jose
11 Cromwell Pl
Cromwell Pl Sea Cliff NY 11579
516-674-3283

McLaughlin Suzanne M
11 Cromwell Pl
Cromwell Pl Sea Cliff 11579
516-759-3455

On Apr 10, 5:26*pm, "mazorj" wrote:

Since one of your hot buttons is illegal immigration, chew on this analogy: *It
would be as though illegals crossed from Mexico into the U.S. and set up
their own settlements, to which the government turned a blind eye. *It may
not be the perfect analogy, but good enough for you to get the idea. *If
this would intensely tick you off, how do you think the Palestinians feel
about the Israeli land grabs?

Seems to me that is what is happening already. The failure of the
government to secure our borders is a national tragedy. And to hear
some of the latinos saying that we STOLE the land from Mexico, and
want to see it returned nauseates me. Mexi-fornia? I do agree that
Israel should stop building settlements in disputed territory, but
doing that won't stop Palestinians from firing rockets and mortars
into Israel. Israel rarely initiates but rather retaliates, and when
they do, they do it to the extreme. Both the Palestinians and the
Israelis deserve to have their own homeland. If Israel wants their
sovereignty to be respected, they should return the favor.

"Jud" wrote in message
...
On Apr 10, 5:26 pm, "mazorj" wrote:

Since one of your hot buttons is illegal immigration, chew on this
analogy: It
would be as though illegals crossed from Mexico into the U.S. and set up
their own settlements, to which the government turned a blind eye. It may
not be the perfect analogy, but good enough for you to get the idea. If
this would intensely tick you off, how do you think the Palestinians feel
about the Israeli land grabs?

Seems to me that is what is happening already.

No, not as I described it. There are similarities between the analogy and
the reality, but the one does not equal the other. I deliberately made it
an over-the-top example that far exceeds "the failure of the government to
secure our borders" (which is an accurate description of what is happening).

The failure of the
government to secure our borders is a national tragedy. And to hear
some of the latinos saying that we STOLE the land from Mexico, and
want to see it returned nauseates me. Mexi-fornia?

I would put that nonsense in the same circular file I use for proposals to
pay reparations to the descendents of slaves. As if!

I do agree that
Israel should stop building settlements in disputed territory, but
doing that won't stop Palestinians from firing rockets and mortars
into Israel. Israel rarely initiates but rather retaliates, and when
they do, they do it to the extreme. Both the Palestinians and the
Israelis deserve to have their own homeland. If Israel wants their
sovereignty to be respected, they should return the favor.

All true. But the settlement program is not premised on terrorist attacks
by Palestinians. It continues unabated as a land grab, pure and simple.
The closest that we Americans come to experiencing the arbitrariness and
unfairness of this practice is through the process of eminent domain. At
least with that, the victims have the right to petition for redress and to
take the case to court. You can't argue with the Israeli tank guarding the
establishment of a new settlement.

Having the Israelis stop this odious practice would be a necessary (but not
a sufficient) condition to attain peace. As long as the Israelis continue
this practice, the TV images of bulldozing Arab homes and intruders
squatting on this land to house more Israelis does undercut the Israelis'
self-professed image of them being the underdog victims.