Scott Russia no mentoin of CTO

CTO's are basically valueless, they are basically "remainders"
Some postal issuers burnt them, others put a line through the stamp.
Others try and confuse us with a sham cancel.

The only value in these are the collectors who appreciate the stamp
for what it is, and what it may teach us, and are not driven by fiscal values.
That is "true" collecting.


wrote in message ...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-

This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-

I do not have a SG specialised for Russia so I cannot comment.
North Borneo differs because the CTO's are blind obliterators
7 or 9 bar ovals IIRC
That may confuse some early collectors.

It just makes sense not to list CTO's when they have "handling value" only.

If there comes a time when a CTO becomes rare (The 2 quid roo?)
then that CTO will earn respect.



Do other catalong athorities like Michel, Yvert, S.G. for instance say
anything about Russia CTO's? Take Scott North Borneo. At the
beginning of the listing Scott says that the values for used stamps
are for CTO's. Not withstanding the fiscal value of the stamps,
Russia is difficult to find postally used particularly after the
revoultion up into the 40's. And I suspect that the majority of the
collectors of that era Russia probably take the used value as CTO
value. Cheers!
Wolf-==-

I meant to say "mute obliterators"


"rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote in message ...

I do not have a SG specialised for Russia so I cannot comment.
North Borneo differs because the CTO's are blind obliterators
7 or 9 bar ovals IIRC
That may confuse some early collectors.

It just makes sense not to list CTO's when they have "handling value" only.

If there comes a time when a CTO becomes rare (The 2 quid roo?)
then that CTO will earn respect.



Do other catalong athorities like Michel, Yvert, S.G. for instance say
anything about Russia CTO's? Take Scott North Borneo. At the
beginning of the listing Scott says that the values for used stamps
are for CTO's. Not withstanding the fiscal value of the stamps,
Russia is difficult to find postally used particularly after the
revoultion up into the 40's. And I suspect that the majority of the
collectors of that era Russia probably take the used value as CTO
value. Cheers!
Wolf-==-

On Feb 27, 7:58*pm, "rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote:
CTO's are basically valueless, they are basically "remainders"
Some postal issuers burnt them, others put a line through the stamp.
Others try and confuse us with a sham cancel.

The only value in these are the collectors who appreciate the stamp
for what it is, and what it may teach us, *and are not driven by fiscal values.
That is "true" collecting.



wrote in ...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. *Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. *Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. *Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. *Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do other catalong athorities like Michel, Yvert, S.G. for instance say
anything about Russia CTO's? Take Scott North Borneo. At the
beginning of the listing Scott says that the values for used stamps
are for CTO's. Not withstanding the fiscal value of the stamps,
Russia is difficult to find postally used particularly after the
revoultion up into the 40's. And I suspect that the majority of the
collectors of that era Russia probably take the used value as CTO
value. Cheers!
Wolf-==-

Am 28.02.2010 04:59, schrieb :
On Feb 27, 7:58 pm, "rodney" pookiethai@NOSPAM iprimus.com.au wrote:
CTO's are basically valueless, they are basically "remainders"
Some postal issuers burnt them, others put a line through the stamp.
Others try and confuse us with a sham cancel.

The only value in these are the collectors who appreciate the stamp
for what it is, and what it may teach us, and are not driven by fiscal values.
That is "true" collecting.



wrote in ...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Do other catalong athorities like Michel, Yvert, S.G. for instance say
anything about Russia CTO's? Take Scott North Borneo. At the
beginning of the listing Scott says that the values for used stamps
are for CTO's. Not withstanding the fiscal value of the stamps,
Russia is difficult to find postally used particularly after the
revoultion up into the 40's. And I suspect that the majority of the
collectors of that era Russia probably take the used value as CTO
value. Cheers!
Wolf-==-
In case of Michel, it says cto Borneo is more than half down, compared
to postaly used - they have two price-coloumns. Russia - I think about
half of that, past revolutionary stuff. ist cto and the michel catalogue
says, there is a premium to postaly used.
I agree, it IS somewhat difficult to find postaly used examples, but not
TOO hard. Two third of my collection is postaly used and there are not
too many gaps. It might be harder to get Borneo stamp postaly used.


Peter

--
No Gates - no Bill!

Despite the prevalent prejudice of CTO remainders, I wonder if the term CTO
always mean 'remainders'?

Australian Roo's and the 5/- Sydney Harbor bridge fetches a higher price
when CTO, compared to a VFU piece.

For North Borneo, there is a renowned philatelist, a Malay expert, who
almost always try to sell us CTO remainders at FU price. Yes, he's been
doing it since i was a teenager. My daughter will be a teen in a few years
time.
His name? P. S***er.

alfred

wrote in message
...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-

My elderly Scott catalogue (1986) says this (page 300):

'Canceled to Order

'Canceled sets of new issues have long been sold by the government.
Prices in the second ("used") column are for these canel-to-order
stamps. Postally used copies are worth more.'

I have a few postally used wartime Russian stamps in my collection,
but most are CTOs for which I paid more than a few dollars, especially
in the cases of some airmail stamps. In fact, I have never seen any of
my Russian CTO's included in any typical packet of CTO's.

Since the history behind stamps interests me far more than their
actual market value, I don't mind CTO's at all, especially if I can
get them for bargain prices compared to their non-CTO brethren. I'd
rather have a complete set of CTO's than an incomplete set of postally
used stamps that is likely to remain incomplete.

Bob

Hi Alfred,
The Australian CTO fetches higher prices due to condition and scarcity.
CTO's are not "remainders" per se, but I treat them as such
Excess printings made for the public, (and why not?)

Remainders were excess issues marked in preference to burning them like Pitcairn and
others through time.
Some CTO's were so printed for collectors, as was the Australian, so the less fortunate
could still own quality sets.
Whatever you call it, they enjoy the same print route as the original, but are made lazy
as they are prevented from work.
Prejudice lives with the collector, one doen't have to join the majority.

Some time ago, the "Philatelic elite" considered covers included in an exhibit were "padding"
the resulting corollory was that people were soaking stamps off cover.
Some time in the future we may see the folly of collecting gum.

If your Malay expert continues to sell at FU price, then one must expect he is being successful.

I personally have no prejudice with CTO's excepting those countries that produce
issues with what looks like "printed on" cancellations, Romania being the biggest offender,
The cancellations look crass.
Rodney





"Alfred Lee" wrote in message ...
Despite the prevalent prejudice of CTO remainders, I wonder if the term CTO always mean 'remainders'?

Australian Roo's and the 5/- Sydney Harbor bridge fetches a higher price when CTO, compared to a VFU piece.

For North Borneo, there is a renowned philatelist, a Malay expert, who almost always try to sell us CTO remainders at
FU price. Yes, he's been doing it since i was a teenager. My daughter will be a teen in a few years time.
His name? P. S***er.

alfred

wrote in message ...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-

Rodney,

not all CTO's enjoy the same print route. Your beloved Romanian ones had a
truely printed "CDS" in the same method as the other colours of the stamp:
photogravure! I love them, preferably in blocks of 4 with a legible post
office other than Bucuresti! Also the USSR and Bulgaria had these
photogravure printed delicatessen! Occasionally other countries have the
same type of CTO like Kenya or Switzerland [although the majority I have
seen so far had the Heidelberg typographed CDS's]....

groetjes, Rein


Op Fri, 05 Mar 2010 05:33:52 +0100 schreef rodney iprimus.com.au
"pookiethai"@NOSPAM:

Hi Alfred,
The Australian CTO fetches higher prices due to condition and scarcity..
CTO's are not "remainders" per se, but I treat them as such
Excess printings made for the public, (and why not?)

Remainders were excess issues marked in preference to burning them like
Pitcairn and
others through time.
Some CTO's were so printed for collectors, as was the Australian, so the
less fortunate
could still own quality sets.
Whatever you call it, they enjoy the same print route as the original,
but are made lazy
as they are prevented from work.
Prejudice lives with the collector, one doen't have to join the majority.

Some time ago, the "Philatelic elite" considered covers included in an
exhibit were "padding"
the resulting corollory was that people were soaking stamps off cover.
Some time in the future we may see the folly of collecting gum.

If your Malay expert continues to sell at FU price, then one must expect
he is being successful.

I personally have no prejudice with CTO's excepting those countries
that produce
issues with what looks like "printed on" cancellations, Romania being
the biggest offender,
The cancellations look crass.
Rodney





"Alfred Lee" wrote in message
...
Despite the prevalent prejudice of CTO remainders, I wonder if the term
CTO always mean 'remainders'?

Australian Roo's and the 5/- Sydney Harbor bridge fetches a higher
price when CTO, compared to a VFU piece.

For North Borneo, there is a renowned philatelist, a Malay expert, who
almost always try to sell us CTO remainders at
FU price. Yes, he's been doing it since i was a teenager. My daughter
will be a teen in a few years time.
His name? P. S***er.

alfred

wrote in message
...
This has been a wonderment of mine for some time. Unless I missing
something, Scott Catalog makes no mention of CTO's in their Russia
section. Of course, I only have the Classic cat., but you'd think,
with the majority of used being CTO, they'd say something of the
value. Scott says in numerous places and cases that postally used are
considerable more valulable, but not for Russia. Any thoughts on
this.
Wolf-==-







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