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#41
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
Virgils Ghost wrote: "Peter Hucker" wrote in message newsp.tct51m1mwabk2w@blue... A dollar to protect a 2 dollar note? You can already buy RFID tags far cheaper than that, especially when they wouldn't need 512kb of storage. A few cents to protect a 500 euro note isn't such a bad deal, the UK already applies holograms. Part of the original post was that a 2D barcode could be scanned by anyone with a camera, so I am wondering about RFID v barcode. An advantage of barcodes is that degradation should be obvious. Also couldn't you destroy the RFID tag by frying it with e.g. high voltage. Does a technical failure of the tag invalidate the note? Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern, and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.) |
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#42
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
"Dave" wrote in message Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern, and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.) Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique, scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this 'watermark' and refuses to http://www.networkworld.com/columnis...9backspin.html |
#43
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message .. . "Dave" wrote in message Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern, and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.) Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique, scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this 'watermark' and refuses to .... scan :- http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...232480,00.html "The software relies on features built into leading currencies. Latest banknotes contain a pattern of five tiny circles. On the £20 note, they're disguised as a musical notation, on the euro they appear in a constellation of stars; on the new $20 note, the pattern is hidden in the zeros of a background pattern. Imaging software or devices detect the pattern and refuse to deal with the image." |
#44
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:22:01 +0100, Virgils Ghost wrote:
"Virgils Ghost" wrote in message .. . "Dave" wrote in message Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern, and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.) Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique, scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this 'watermark' and refuses to ... scan :- http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...232480,00.html "The software relies on features built into leading currencies. Latest banknotes contain a pattern of five tiny circles. On the £20 note, they're disguised as a musical notation, on the euro they appear in a constellation of stars; on the new $20 note, the pattern is hidden in the zeros of a background pattern. Imaging software or devices detect the pattern and refuse to deal with the image." One of the reasons not to use Adobe software. -- http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com Confuscious say: "If you park, don't drink, accidents cause people." |
#45
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:32:29 +0100, Dave wrote:
Virgils Ghost wrote: "Peter Hucker" wrote in message newsp.tct51m1mwabk2w@blue... A dollar to protect a 2 dollar note? You can already buy RFID tags far cheaper than that, especially when they wouldn't need 512kb of storage. A few cents to protect a 500 euro note isn't such a bad deal, the UK already applies holograms. Part of the original post was that a 2D barcode could be scanned by anyone with a camera, so I am wondering about RFID v barcode. An advantage of barcodes is that degradation should be obvious. Also couldn't you destroy the RFID tag by frying it with e.g. high voltage. Does a technical failure of the tag invalidate the note? Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). However you could make up a unique barcode pattern, and with 500 characters with a 37 character character set you have 1.26e+784 combinations, assumming a trillion notes in circulation, you have a one in 1.26e+772 chance of guessing a note correctly. However if quantum computers come along you may need to stop using public/private keys, if they can try all combinations and find the valid ones. (redundancy of data not taken into account.) How about microwaving it? -- http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com o +--___ +--__ _ _ _ _|_ ]-I-I-I-[ \_,_,_,_/ | | | _ | -_-_-_- |II -_-_-_- | / \ | \-.-.-/ I \_,,_,/ | |_| | | | / \ | ] | |/\| | /___\ [ []| | ,--. /\| | | |II | |__| u| | ||| _| | I |[] ,--. u | | | _- ,-' / \ _[ |_ |u |__| |_- | /___\ | | | _||||_ \ |__ | |_-_-_| |/ - '' - _\ '-, ___ ,----' \ _/]/ ' __| / \ /``-. \ ,' `--. | ) ___ _.---'| ( / _||____|( )`-----`````-. \ \ _..-----------......'( / _) \------..__--...____/_(__ \ ( ```-----------` _.-)____________ ,--' `---------....__`----...___/___ \_ ```----------``/ `- __..-' ) / _.-\______ \ __,-. `------.._```-----.. /__,./ ) `-.-, '`````--, \ _,-. ( __)____....---'_,` ( _) _/ \-------``````` / \ ( ) (-._``\ \ ) / __\___....'_/ ) _/ \ ( __)------````/ [ ) / \ / /``` )\ [ / |
#46
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
Virgils Ghost wrote: "Dave" wrote in message Also see a previous post about a definitive solution to note validation (scanning fibres). Notes already include such patterns, though obviously not unique, scanners and digital photocopiers now have software that detects this 'watermark' and refuses to http://www.networkworld.com/columnis...9backspin.html This is what I was on about: http://www.boston.com/news/science/a...rint_of_paper/ |
#47
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
In article ews.net "Miss L. Toe" writes:
"Dik T. Winter" wrote in message ... .... Yes, the original owner was no longer legitimate owner. On the other hand, his insurance would have paid him for the stolen bicycle. What if he decided not to have insurance ? Tough luck. He might try to get recompense from the thief, or from the shop that sold his bicycle. (I did hear a rumour once that bicycle theft rings in Amsterdam were financed by the new bicycle retailers). Most are stolen by junks that sell them again. (I also heard a rumour that car radio theft rings in the UK were financed by car radio shops). Also those are mostly stolen by junks in the Netherlands. But theft of those are in the decline as modern radio's are integrated in the dashboard. -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ |
#48
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
"note.boy" wrote in message ... "bri" wrote in message .net... "GB" wrote in message ... "Dave" wrote in message ups.com... Hi, As an interim step to total electronicization of money I believe that 2D barcodes on banknotes should uniquely sign the note, so any imaging network device could tell if the bit of paper was a duplicate, and help tracking. A non-networked device should be able to check the signature, but not do real-time tracking. If your money was stolen you should be able to receive your stolen property when it was handed into a bank. (Or is ownership of banknotes lost upon theft? - uk.legal) In principle, there is nothing to stop you writing down the serial nos of all your bank notes in case they are stolen. Nobody does, though. Whilst bar codes would make it easier, I am sure that OCR technology can easily cope with reading existing serial nos. There are good reasons for not confiscating money from an innocent end user simply because the serial no is on a list of stolen notes. There are still nearly 30 million pounds of stolen notes missing from the big robbery in Essex a few months go, and that's just one robbery. The grand total must be much higher. Commerce would grind to a halt if everybody had to check each note against a database of stolen ones. OCR technology is a joke. There's absolutely no_way a circulated note of any kind could ever be OCR'd or even scanned in by a bar code reader. If it's possible to have a camera read a car number plate that may be travelling at 100 mph I find it difficult to accept that a static note would be difficult to read. Billy It won't be static--it'll be moving so fast you can't even hardly see it wiz thru the machine. Banks and the feds will have to do that since there's many billions of notes to keep track of that way. I do scanning for a living--we always get nastied-up bar codes and once they get even one tiny mark across those or they get worn just a tiny bit it won't read them in a scanner or it mis-reads it. We also have spent many thousands of dollars on OCR software of all kinds and there's just tons and tons of stuff out there that you can't OCR due to the documents being in such poor condition. We tried OCR on some bar codes many times. It'll work for the first 50 or so then for some unknown reason it won't read them. Doesn't matter if they're brand new or worn down. The problem I think is that you need a super fast and super large cache that can keep up--at this time there isn't such a beast except maybe at NORAD or something like that ;-) |
#49
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
"Peter Hucker" wrote in message newsp.tcukuvlzwabk2w@blue...
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:43:39 +0100, Cynic wrote: On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:28:25 GMT, "Virgils Ghost" wrote: "Dave" wrote in message Apparently PDF417 can store 500 characters per square inch (I'm not an expert in this area, though) And when it's tattered and ripped? PDF417 uses Solomon Reed error correction of flexible size, so a few damaged bits would be OK. Not that I see much point in the exercise unless we all have online readers that are able to detect stolen or duplicate bar codes at the point we receive the money. Perhaps the shops would. I've seen loads (ok ONE) shop with a UV banknote tester. As have I. A chippy actually. It incorrectly read a real £20 note as counterfeit because it had been washed. What do modern detergents contain? U/V sensitive ingredients. What do fake note testers check for? The same thing. All in all useless. |
#50
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All banknotes to have a 2D barcode?
"Dik T. Winter" wrote in message ... In article ews.net "Miss L. Toe" writes: "Dik T. Winter" wrote in message ... ... Yes, the original owner was no longer legitimate owner. On the other hand, his insurance would have paid him for the stolen bicycle. What if he decided not to have insurance ? Tough luck. He might try to get recompense from the thief, or from the shop that sold his bicycle. Why should the shop be any more liable than the customer ? (I did hear a rumour once that bicycle theft rings in Amsterdam were financed by the new bicycle retailers). Most are stolen by junks that sell them again. But who do they sell them to ? |
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