Can't Somebody Stop This Guy??????

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:54 -0600, Harold Fears wrote:

Only an idiot would think that this is a genuine silver dollar.

Harold



And thus it would be fine to take from him!

I hope you know a lot about cars next time you need a mechanic.

--
DW

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:53:36 -0800, Paul Robertz wrote:

All of reading this can quickly discern that this is not a real Carson
City Morgan dollar. Yet it gets bids from the optimistically ignorant.

What to do? Emailing the seller or reporting him to eBay will get
nowhere, since the auction description contains enough detail to alert
the experienced collector that this coin is a reproduction.

For quite a few months now eBay has given lip service to the ANA and
required coin sellers to state that their coins are represented in
accordance with ANA grading standards. Of course, this is not a "coin"
strictly speaking, so eBay can collect their final value fees from the
seller once the winning bidiot has paid.

There have been a couple of fruitless attempts to get eBay to either
create a new category for reproductions/copies/fakes or force sellers
to onclude "copy", "reproduction" or some similar word in the item
specifics. Still this one is listed as "Certified" "Carson City"
"Siver" "Proof", for which precious few Morgans would qualify. Yes,
eBay could be doing more to alert mentally retarded bidders that this
is not a real 1879-CC GSA Morgan dollar.

I agree with Steve that eBay and cable TV auctions of such
reproductions will continue until the sources that create them cease to
exist. I think that these silver plated fakes were made with
despicable motives, and do not condone those selling them to the
public.

In the meantime, is there any way we can take less than draconian
measures to stop such preying on the ignorant? Much of the U.S. gross
domestic product is generated by preying on the ignorant. Perhaps this
auction simply epitomizes that the U.S. gross domestic product is gross
indeed, and cannot be compared to the economy of Tibetan monks or more
enlightened citizens of this planet.

If the federal government were to outlaw misrepresentation so that
every advertisement was clear to the most stupid citizen, we would live
in a society described by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1960s short story
"Harrison Bergeron". Under that scenario, all Americans were finally
equal when each person was fitted with a heavy suit of lead weights
proportional to their intelligence and physical strength so that no one
could do anything other than sit in their chair and watch TV.


Shystev99 wrote:
I agree. This auction is no different from the TV ads. It is
clearly
stated that this is a reproduction and "replication". The one
thing
that I
hate to see is that "100 mil .999 pure silver proof" wording. This
kind of
language is obviously designed to imply to non-numismatists that,
reproduction or not, this is a .999 silver coin. A simple "Silver
plated"
would be much more truthful and informative, but certainly would
not
attract
as many potential buyers.

Unlike unavoidable TV commercials, anyone landing on this auction
site would
most likely have been searching for coin-related auctions. Once
there, even
if they are uninformed, they are responsible for any bid decisions
they
make.

Bruce

I agree with you that the wording of the .999 Silver coin MAY sound
deceptive but my next question would be, Is the coin solid silver or
is
it plated. As far as I know there is no law against selling pure
silver
coins even if they are advertised as copies or replicas. The
Franklin
Mint used to mint .999 silver coins all the time when they were in
business back in the 70's. Now these coins weren't all replicas of
actual coins but still I don't think anybody selling silver in bar
form
or coin form is illegal.....Is it? (I'm not talking about deliberate
counterfit coins designed to circulate and fool consumers, I mean
coins
that are advertised as copies or replicas)
Now if the coins are infact plated then....Absolutley it's unethical
and wrong.

But if everybody feels so passionatley about this then there are
options, Some of you suggest stopping the seller. Well that won't
solve
the overall problem. The better solution would be for us to get
together as a group (Which we are) write up some proposal that would
make it illegal for any mint to mint their coins in the form of any
US
minted coin throughout the history of the mint. Meaning
reproductions,
copies, replicas or any other slick wording of any pre existing coin
would be banned altogtether. We then submit that proposal to a local
congressman, Or numerous congressmen and see where they can take it.
To
give it somekind of backbone we can also create a petition that
collectors, reputable dealers, US Mint officials, or anyone else
interested could sign. We could find reputable dealers (Many which
are
in this group) to maybe help get the word out about this law or bill
on
their websites, Coin shows, storefronts etc... Now some of you may
laugh at this idea, Hell I'm laughing at it a little bit myself. But
when you think about it with the coin market the way it is and with
it
as popular as it is some senators and congressmen might actually bite
at it. Now would it happen overnight? No It will be a long drawn out
process that would be very frustrating and tedious at times. But
again
if you guys are truly as passionate as you sound I say it's something
we should atleast think about. And any collectors here outside of the
US can hopefully seek the same kind of option in their countries.
Point being, If we make these reproductions, copies and replicas of
EXISTING OR HISTORICAL U.S. AND GLOBAL LEGAL TENDER then ebay or any
other auction site would have to enforce and restrict not having it
sold on their sites.

If you truly want to stop it you have to goto the source, Not the
sellers.
Steve

I am familiar with the text, and I don't think you are comparing like
items. I know nothing about fixing a car. If I take my car to a mechanic
and he uses careful phrasing to convince me I need to have
something I don't really need, he is in the wrong. Or, am I in the wrong
for operating a motor vehicle and not fully understanding it?

I hope those of you defending this guys actions are not any one I will
ever have to trust.
--
DW

linxlvr wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:54 -0600, Harold Fears wrote:

Only an idiot would think that this is a genuine silver dollar.

Harold



And thus it would be fine to take from him!

I hope you know a lot about cars next time you need a mechanic.

--
DW

Actually, the mechanically-challenged would hopefully seek the services of a
reputable mechanic. In the same regard, the numismatically-challenged would do
well to seek the services of a reputable coin dealer-- not a slick TV ad or an
Ebay auction.

I'd bet that many of the people who buy these "coins" don't really have a clue
as to what they really are. They probably don't know an 1879-CC dollar from an
2500cc Harley. They just are attracted to the theme of the piece and presume it
must be valuable and a good investment because of all the fancy words in the
ads.

I wish I could get my original purchase price back for those Limoges
Bicentennial plates I bought from junk mail ads without first doing some
research on the past performance of what I was "investing" in. A relatively
inexpensive lesson over a long term.

Bruce