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#21
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dip pens
On 2008-06-06, The Drunken Lord wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:11:23 +0000, MatthewK wrote: One, I think dip pens that have a reservoir is the way to go because 1. the ones that don't, you're dipping every other word 2. the ones that don't, I get blobs all over the place, maybe because i'm dipping so much, or so often. There are kinds other than speedball that have reservoirs, but I don't know what they are. http://www.jandtblackman.ltd.uk/eSho...cts.php?cat=36 Bandzug and williams-mitchell have reservoirs. That site sells the williams-mitchell ones seperately too. Why don't you like the glass pens? I played around with my speedball stuff yesterday. I think I have remnants of the "artist kit". I noticed the the noodlers BP black doesn't do well in the dip pens at all but my platinum watery red does wonderfully. Must be some flow characteristics? The red actually comes out as a pink, I'm not sure how it would be in a japanese fine fp. I checked out the misterart store and they have a good deal on bombay ink. Any decent store, hobby or otherwise, is about an hour away so I do a lot of online shopping. matthew |
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#22
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dip pens
On 2008-06-06, Bluesea wrote:
"The Drunken Lord" wrote in message ... On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:11:23 +0000, MatthewK I tried a dip pen several years ago and stuck it in a drawer thinking there's a technique I need to learn before it'll be enjoyable for me. I still haven't looked into it. Is there a technique for using dip pens? All I did was dip the nib into the ink at varying depths, sometimes touching the point to the bottle to get rid of the excess. So far I've noticed that I need an extra-light hand with the fine and square tipped nibs. I was a little put off by the difference at first. Out of the two inks I used (bp black and platinum red) the watery platinum red worked best. Maybe what I need is a reservoir pen. From: http://www.penandinkability.co.uk/ni...loadingink.htm Loading the Nib with Ink If you are using a nib and holder without a reservoir then you have a choice, of either dipping the nib into the bottled ink in the normal way. Or using a small brush, pick up some ink with it and introduce it to the nib. This way you have control over the amount of ink given to the nib and you don.t have the nib over full with ink and inclined to drip. If you are using a pen nib with a reservoir and a bottle of ink with a dropper cap, then you can successfully use this to introduce ink to the nib. Just position the business end of the dropper between the nib and reservoir, apply a small amount of pressure to the bulb of the dropper and watch the flow of ink into the reservoir. If you are not using a dropper bottle then use a brush loaded with ink as described above, using the bristles to introduce the ink into the space between the reservoir and nib. Always test the flow of the ink from the nib on a spare piece of paper before attempting to write with it. Trying the ink flow first gives you the confidence to know the ink will flow when you start to write, also any excess ink will be used up and therefore not drip and spoil your work. It.s important that the nib has been washed with soap and water then dried prior to use, otherwise the ink may not cling to the nib. In effect the ink will slide off the nib like water off a ducks back! |
#23
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dip pens
On 2008-06-07, Brian Ketterling wrote:
In , Bluesea wrote: Maybe what I need is a reservoir pen. A while back, in a jumble of dip pens I bought on eBay (containing the Esterbrook "Dip-Less" I wanted), I found several holders with FP-style HR feeds, and a little ink space in the handles behind the feeds. Something like that might work for you -- I wonder whether anyone makes them anymore. (Am I describing a "reservoir pen", BTW?) I'm out of my league when you guys start talking about esterbrooks and vintage pens but this may be interesting if you didn't know such a thing existed. http://www.ackermanpens.com/ I first read about these on stutler's sketching forum and I guess they can be pretty messy. matthew |
#24
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dip pens
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:45:59 +0000, MatthewK
wrote: I'm out of my league when you guys start talking about esterbrooks and vintage pens but this may be interesting if you didn't know such a thing existed. Esterbrook made a whole bunch of different types of nibs, and then when fountain pens came out, people were stuck with warehouses full of them, and they're still around, and you can get them pretty cheap. Esterbrook also made fountain pens later on. I don't know much about vintage pens and don't care to know. They'd be more interesting to me if they didn't cost hundreds and thousands. There are so many old Shaeffers out there in disrepair that you can get those pretty cheap on ebay, and I got a few, but haven't fixed them yet. http://www.ackermanpens.com/ I first read about these on stutler's sketching forum and I guess they can be pretty messy. That looks like a real "reservoir" pen. I didn't know they existed like that. |
#25
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dip pens
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:32:00 +0000, MatthewK
wrote: Why don't you like the glass pens? I don't like rounded points--I kind of have to have stubs or italic points. My handwriting is out of control even with stubs and italics, but it helps keep my hand more steady. I don't have any muscle disease or anything like that--I just write too fast. I played around with my speedball stuff yesterday. I think I have remnants of the "artist kit". I noticed the the noodlers BP black doesn't do well in the dip pens at all but my platinum watery red does wonderfully. Must be some flow characteristics? The red actually comes out as a pink, I'm not sure how it would be in a japanese fine fp. It's spreading out more then. It looks red on a fine line and pink when broader. I checked out the misterart store and they have a good deal on bombay ink. Any decent store, hobby or otherwise, is about an hour away so I do a lot of online shopping. Yeah, Bombay is cheap everywhere, but maybe a little cheaper at misterart.com |
#26
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dip pens
In ,
MatthewK wrote: http://www.ackermanpens.com/ I first read about these on stutler's sketching forum and I guess they can be pretty messy. If you pump ink out onto the nib, I can believe it can be messy, but it's a lot more elegant than an older design I've seen (made by Speedball? -- I can't remember at the moment). That one has a big, fat handle, and a thin metal tube that comes out alongside the nib, then curves in to deposit the ink on the nib. Brian -- |
#27
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dip pens
Bluesea wrote:
Is there a technique for using dip pens? All I did was dip the nib into the ink at varying depths, sometimes touching the point to the bottle to get rid of the excess. It really depends on the nib that you have. Some others here have described the reservoir nibs and the like, but I use a simple nib with no reservoir and I don't have any troubles with it. It's an extra flexible steel dip (extra flexible compared to modern fountain pen nibs) that is considered a "medium." I take the technique for writing with them from a Spencerian Penmanship book [1] as follows: "The position for writing should be a convenient one, allowing the easy action of the right arm and hand. In sitting at a desk or table there is little choice between [different angles and positions] ... As the free use of the hand mainly depends on the manner of holding the pen, the correct method only should be learned, and perservered in until it becomes habitual and easy.... "Take the pen between the first and second fingers and the thumb, observing, 1st, that it crosses the second finger on the corner of the nail; 2d, that it crosses the fore finger forward of the knuckle; 3d, that the end of the thumb touches the holder opposite the lower joint of the fore finger; 4th, that the top of the holder points towards the right shoulder; 5th, that the wrist is above the paper, and the hand resting lightly on the nails of the third and fourth fingers; 6th, that the point of the pen comes squarely to the paper." The book further describes two different strokes, the light stroke and the shades strokes. With light strokes being formed "by moving the pen lightly on the paper without springing or spreading the teeth," and shaded strokes formed "by springing the pen by a pressure to spread the teeth, then lightening the pressure, and allowing them to return to place." Few people today use this form of holding the pen, or writing, and what is considered light in the fountain pen world, even though it is very light, may not be light enough for a flexible steel dip pen. With a fountain pen, sometimes there are certain directions and shapes to make that require a bit more pressure to make the proper ink flow that you want. With a steel dip pen like those I use, these additional pressures will deliver very different stokes than what most people expect, and so a very ilght touch is usually required, with the shaded strokes being formed deliberately. As for dipping, I notice that some of the replies want you to brush the nib with a brush or drop into the feed system. I think these are all good ideas when absolute writing integrity must be guaranteed, but when it comes to daily correspondence, this method seems very slow to me, and I prefer to dip the nib straight into the bottle. I use Mont Blanc bottles to store my ink, and they work very well for maintaining the proper depth of ink for dipping. I dip pretty often, but quickly, and so this isn't a problem. I find that with practice, you can reduce or completely eliminate blobs. [1] ISBN: 0-88062-082-X -- Aaron Hsu | Jabber: ``Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.'' - Frederic Bastiat |
#28
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dip pens
MatthewK wrote:
If you want to do real Spencerian, it is absolutely essential that you get the right pen. :-) Spencerian, unliike some of the forms, is not done with a broad tip, but only work properly with a truly flexible sharp nib, and I would say that the finer the better. Although, you can also start with monoline Spencerian if you just want to practice the forms, and then "move up" to shading. Yeah, I know exactly what your talkinga about. I can't think of the site now but I'm sure you know it. It has video tutorials on copperplate and spencerian and some old manuals in pdf format. Amazing stuff really. I haven't seen any videos, if you could provide a URL that would be great. I actually started with some PDFs of old manuals, but then found an excellent little book that has been republished for modern Spencerian. The only change, I believe the authors made to the original was changing the shape of the L to make it more practical for today's readers, but I use the slightly older form. -- Aaron Hsu | Jabber: ``Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.'' - Frederic Bastiat |
#29
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dip pens
"The Drunken Lord" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:03:29 -0500, "Bluesea" wrote: I tried a dip pen several years ago and stuck it in a drawer thinking there's a technique I need to learn before it'll be enjoyable for me. I still haven't looked into it. Is there a technique for using dip pens? All I did was dip the nib into the ink at varying depths, sometimes touching the point to the bottle to get rid of the excess. Maybe what I need is a reservoir pen. Those ****nuts on FPN don't use speedball nibs. They go for those Esterbrooks. And some of the FPN'ers write pretty well with them. But I'd never use a dip pen if I couldn't have one with a reservoir--too much dipping. I got some C-4 and C-5 nibs recently, some new ones, and they were pretty sharp, maybe a little too sharp--or maybe I was just using cheap paper they kept getting hung up on. Speedball is also not the only kind that has reservoirs, but I think it's the only kind currently made. Okay, I'll look for Speedball when I go to Hobby Lobby. Thanks. -- ~~Bluesea~~ Spam is great in musubi, but not in email. Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply. |
#30
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dip pens
"Brian Ketterling" wrote in message m... In , Bluesea wrote: I tried a dip pen several years ago and stuck it in a drawer thinking there's a technique I need to learn before it'll be enjoyable for me... Maybe what I need is a reservoir pen. A while back, in a jumble of dip pens I bought on eBay (containing the Esterbrook "Dip-Less" I wanted), I found several holders with FP-style HR feeds, and a little ink space in the handles behind the feeds. Something like that might work for you -- I wonder whether anyone makes them anymore. (Am I describing a "reservoir pen", BTW?) It sounds good if I can find something like it locally. I don't know why, but I've got a thing about eBay and haven't done it. If a seller has a regular website, I'll buy from it, but not eBay. It might be the auctioning. Mom really liked auctions and used to drag me and Dad along with her. It was aversion therapy before I needed it, I guess. -- ~~Bluesea~~ Spam is great in musubi, but not in email. Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply. |
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