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#11
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Use a bic? Simple example of why some people don't: some rubbing alcohol or
acetone will wash it and only that line out of the paper in about 8 seconds. I see nothing wrong with trying to increase the utility, versatility, and reliability of the fountain pen through the development of more and better inks. I'm sorry to see that it offends you - it is only an attempt at promoting the use of the fountain pen, including at least a few utilitarians that previously were ignoring the fountain pen entirely! *bad taste* (Tiananmen, Iraqi Indigo...). The first free elections in 5,000 years within the fertile crescent, whereby if an ordinary citizen dared to show that color upon their fingers they risked death for themselves and their families by terrorists simply because they exercised their new right to vote. Bad taste? That is a heroic color to the people who risked their very lives with it - worthy of at least some recognition somewhere! I know the PC like to overlook the fact that those people were risking their lives to vote, and took even greater amounts of courage to show their fingers in public despite the threat of the death that surrounded them - but I never will. Those people deserve our respect at the very least - and if anything was gained by the great sacrifice there...it was the freedom to vote. Tiananmen in bad taste? It will never sell on the Chinese mainland because it expresses a desire to be free of tyranny. It is the most auspicious of Chinese colors and the label reflects the heroism of a lone individual who for a moment in history single handedly defied the tyrants in Beijing before the eyes of the entire globe. Bad taste? It is too bad we don't remember Tiananmen Square in 1989 more often! Is the love of freedom now un-PC? Is the love of freedom now a sin???!!! |
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#12
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Noodler wrote: *bad taste* (Tiananmen, Iraqi Indigo...). The first free elections in 5,000 years within the fertile crescent, whereby if an ordinary citizen dared to show that color upon their fingers they risked death for themselves and their families by terrorists simply because they exercised their new right to vote. Bad taste? That is a heroic color to the people who risked their very lives with it - worthy of at least some recognition somewhere! I know the PC like to overlook the fact that those people were risking their lives to vote, and took even greater amounts of courage to show their fingers in public despite the threat of the death that surrounded them - but I never will. Those people deserve our respect at the very least - and if anything was gained by the great sacrifice there...it was the freedom to vote. Tiananmen in bad taste? It will never sell on the Chinese mainland because it expresses a desire to be free of tyranny. It is the most auspicious of Chinese colors and the label reflects the heroism of a lone individual who for a moment in history single handedly defied the tyrants in Beijing before the eyes of the entire globe. Bad taste? It is too bad we don't remember Tiananmen Square in 1989 more often! Is the love of freedom now un-PC? Is the love of freedom now a sin???!!! Nathan, it just isn't that simple. The fact that you think it *is* that simple, is the problem in a nutshell. But I like your ink, and I don't have a problem buying it because the bottle is in a drawer in my house and not on display at work. I'm just hoping the next colour isn't called Hiroshima Mushroom Cloud Gray, because that one I wouldn't buy, even if I did like the ink, and even if you claimed it represented "freedom" :-( |
#13
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It's not a claim. The Iraqi Indigo ink was modeled upon samples obtained
from that actual election...so it is EXACTLY what I meant it to mean. What amazes me most about the modern era is that ANY exercise of free expression OFFENDS somebody egregiously. At least the people who are "offended" by the Tiananmen label have not (yet) threatened to kill me as those who loathe the Ottoman Azure/Rose labels have. Another interesting thing about the nuts who loathe Ottoman Azure/Rose - they are not even Turkish citizens but reside in one of the emirates!!! Some of those claiming to be the most tolerant people on earth are also the very same who are the most easily and deeply offended by harmless perceptions...such as the woman who was offended by "Beaver" ink - the only blue spectrum brown ink on the market today, like a beaver's tail - not the fur. Did Carter's ever have a problem with their "Beaver Brown" back in the 1930s? Incredible. Many of the people who use Iraqi Indigo never even bother with the name - I see a lot of references to "Lap-Indigo" from those who mix it with Legal Lapis to make a royal blue-black combo. They don't seem to get hung up on the label and instead just use the ink. If you read the label, it is nothing more than the very basis of our country's political heritage dating back to its founding. Then again "All men are created equal" or the even more controversial and shocking (my goodness, get the police and lock me up!!) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" would open up an even bigger can of worms with the PC crowd. As for the "Hiroshima" reference - I'm not nuts. It is comparing apples and oranges - because Iraqi Indigo was made in direct reference to a very historic use of ink...not a claim or innuendo - but was actually modeled on the ink used in that first free election in Mesopotamia in 5,000 years. Sometimes it is "that simple". Though Antietam is a historical reference that is admittedly outright controversial - it is a historical reference from the era the ink was replicating in terms of certain iron based dip pen inks of the Civil War period. That specific historic color was being replicated. A bottle of "David's Star" ink made in the same year as the battle of Antietam was also involved in that inspiration - it was the only successful rehydration from that period. I had asked Anne Poe Lehr about Antietam several months before her passing (those in the Long Island Pen Club know who she was) and she strongly encouraged the use of that name - being a Civil War buff herself. Too many people like the name to change it anyway - and I think of her each time I see it now. The only other name that can bring about a PC shock would be Verdun - a play on the words for "green" and a very large battle that took place in WW I. "A durable enough ink for the men at Verdun." was scripted on a prototype label and then removed. Calling certain inks "bulletproof" was due to Greg Clark's ink tests and articles on "bullet proof" inks. I'm sorry that the names are too strong for some - but enough people like them to keep them! "*david*" wrote in message ups.com... Noodler wrote: *bad taste* (Tiananmen, Iraqi Indigo...). The first free elections in 5,000 years within the fertile crescent, whereby if an ordinary citizen dared to show that color upon their fingers they risked death for themselves and their families by terrorists simply because they exercised their new right to vote. Bad taste? That is a heroic color to the people who risked their very lives with it - worthy of at least some recognition somewhere! I know the PC like to overlook the fact that those people were risking their lives to vote, and took even greater amounts of courage to show their fingers in public despite the threat of the death that surrounded them - but I never will. Those people deserve our respect at the very least - and if anything was gained by the great sacrifice there...it was the freedom to vote. Tiananmen in bad taste? It will never sell on the Chinese mainland because it expresses a desire to be free of tyranny. It is the most auspicious of Chinese colors and the label reflects the heroism of a lone individual who for a moment in history single handedly defied the tyrants in Beijing before the eyes of the entire globe. Bad taste? It is too bad we don't remember Tiananmen Square in 1989 more often! Is the love of freedom now un-PC? Is the love of freedom now a sin???!!! Nathan, it just isn't that simple. The fact that you think it *is* that simple, is the problem in a nutshell. But I like your ink, and I don't have a problem buying it because the bottle is in a drawer in my house and not on display at work. I'm just hoping the next colour isn't called Hiroshima Mushroom Cloud Gray, because that one I wouldn't buy, even if I did like the ink, and even if you claimed it represented "freedom" :-( |
#14
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warning: rather blunt with examples of crude language to make a point.
frankly, i'm offended by PR Avacado. Dang it! It's AvOcado! :P i understand that it's a global market but being part-owner in a WWII operational s/w company i also understand there are times when History, as accurately portrayed as possible, takes precedence over being "PC". we do work within the restrictions imposed by some European countries - IOW, we do not include the swastika in any images (which often means chopping out pieces of images from the war itself - something I am more offended by to be honest as it is seems "revisionist" to me). Sometimes it all seems a bit ludicrous. I'm not offended by "Beaver" ink - but I do get a giggle out of it. confession, i'm still a bit childish when it comes to words in our vernacular that mean "naughty bits". what would most offend me would be blatant crudity, dishonesty, rudeness, etc. If someone made an ink called "The Ol' lady on the Rag" for example, then he'd earn my ire. or if the ink was packaged in tiny bottles for large amounts of money (can you say Herbin) that would bother me (I still buy the ink though.) I know it's been said already to an extent - but if we're going to carry this so far as to argue with Nathan about his naming conventions than we need to talk to Pelikan, Delta, Krone, and others. We haven't even begun to talk about Krone's website! if something offends you, don't buy it. I know that's the simplistic "just turn the t.v. off" view of things but in this case I think it's very easy to avoid looking at bottles that say "Ottoman Rose" especially now that you know they exist. must we now take all our history books and cull the word "Ottoman" from them? And what about all those poor lonely footstools that would be dumped on the side of the road? okay - well, obviously i'm in a goofy mood - punch drunk from too much time packing and cleaning. I probably will end up with Hanta virus or something... one never realizes just how many rodents were living in an attic until one moves to a new home. shudder (we exterminated years ago but didn't realize just how much fun they'd had in our boxes in the attic. -- KCat For Pen Talk, Images, Trading and Reviews: The Fountain Pen Network http://www.fountainpennetwork.com For Lupus Support and Info http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/ASLFAQ/ |
#15
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Isn't the PR ink called Avacado after a woman named Ava?
The v-for victory sign on Nathan's bottle is a sign for American victory over the Iraqis, and has little to do with Iraqi freedom. If a "free" U.S. election was held with a foreign army in the streets, would the result be recognized by Americans? I hope not. |
#16
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"*david*" wrote in message
ups.com... Isn't the PR ink called Avacado after a woman named Ava? i asked that once before (though not of anyone who knew the answer) so I have no clue. That would be my guess. i was, of course, being facetious. |
#17
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*david* wrote: Isn't the PR ink called Avacado after a woman named Ava? The v-for victory sign on Nathan's bottle is a sign for American victory over the Iraqis, and has little to do with Iraqi freedom. If a "free" U.S. election was held with a foreign army in the streets, would the result be recognized by Americans? I hope not. Advertizing - considered by many the 9th art (8th is comic books) - works in strange ways. In Spain we have some Undertaker's with names which could be translated as "Loneliness", "Sunset"... Makes me wonder what the heck were those people thinking when choosing a name. You want to attract customers, right? Blows my mind. Then, the media has bored us to death telling us there's democracy in Iraq. IMNSHO, It takes more than people puting pieces of paper in a box for democracy to exist. But as people believe what the media says, you can also use a sign of illiteracy (a finger dipped in ink for signing) to advertize fountain pen ink. As I said, advertizing is a weird thing. PS: I like the way some Noodlers inks look like. Really. Juan |
#18
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Maybe. Although I've been told I have a thick skin. Many times. Do you
think that an overly sensitive would dare to say something that could contradict what the accp mainstream adore? One thing's for su I don't need to talk about what everone does, or praise what everyone does, or buy the pen everyone does or... simply because I don't give a ballpen for popularity, people's acceptance or anything. Maybe *you* need it. BTW, who has talked about problems? If you have a look at other people's posts, it seems I'm not the only one with a "problem". In fact this thread looks like "The Emperor Wears no Clothes" tale. Ever heard about it? Juan |
#19
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On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 01:27:10 GMT, Noodler typed:
*bad taste* (Tiananmen, Iraqi Indigo...). Personally I could care less about the implications of what fanciful names you name your inks. But what I would really like to see from *all* ink makers is a realistic description of the ink color - maybe even with a Pantone number reference in place of the meaningless names many give their inks. After all, I do hope that you realize that people buy the inks for their *color*, not for (or perhaps in spite of) the cute name.... -- Cordially, Sonam Dasara 10/3/2005 4:41:42 PM |
#20
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I suspect ink colours are not stable enough from batch to batch to give
them a Pantone number - but I feel somewhat the same way. Then again, how do you write a description that everybody will interpret the same way? Pretty hard to do. |
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