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Crowne plaza show



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 14th 04, 01:46 AM
Beamer
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Default Crowne plaza show

It was terrible.
What a waste of 2 days.
Ads
  #2  
Old November 14th 04, 02:07 PM
NobleGB
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The show was fine, a good selection of dealers, lots of new material, great
hall - its just that the public didn;t turn up - I personally thought that
being so close to NYC would attract the NY crowd - evidently not - pity.
Dee had done a great job of organising the show, with lots of appropriate
advertising. But it seems like the card collecting communty would rather
become Ebay computer potatoes and pay ridiculously high prices on Ebay rather
than spend a few hours searching shows and communicating with fellow
collectors. Isn't that what the hobby is all about????


Dave Grimes
Check out my WEB Page at
http://members.aol.com/noblegb/page/text.html

  #3  
Old November 14th 04, 03:00 PM
Jon Doyle
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Beamer wrote in message ...
It was terrible.
What a waste of 2 days.


It was terrible it what way?

Jon
  #4  
Old November 16th 04, 03:42 AM
Beamer
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David,
You say the show was "fine". Is that from the standpoint of a dealer or
a shopper. As a shopper, maybe you found some good deals and great
items to bring home. As a dealer, those of us who still believe in the
idea of doing a show and HATE ebay with every fiber because of what it
has done to this once exciting fun hobby? The show was a huge
dissapointment. Do you know what the tables cost? A night at the
hotel, driving 4 hours each way, gas, tolls, setting up and tearing down
your inventory only to have made less money than you laid out to do the
show.
I stand by my original statement. If this is any hint of what the
furure has to offer the non-sport dealer then I think it may mean the
end of doing shows...

NobleGB wrote:
The show was fine, a good selection of dealers, lots of new material, great
hall - its just that the public didn;t turn up - I personally thought that
being so close to NYC would attract the NY crowd - evidently not - pity.
Dee had done a great job of organising the show, with lots of appropriate
advertising. But it seems like the card collecting communty would rather
become Ebay computer potatoes and pay ridiculously high prices on Ebay rather
than spend a few hours searching shows and communicating with fellow
collectors. Isn't that what the hobby is all about????


Dave Grimes
Check out my WEB Page at
http://members.aol.com/noblegb/page/text.html

  #5  
Old November 16th 04, 03:48 AM
Beamer
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Posts: n/a
Default

Jon,
Maybe 200 people showed up for the show. It cost more money to buy
tables, drive to the show, set up, stay overnight then pack it all up
and go home with less product than you came with but you spent more
money to do the show then you made doing it.
That's a sad state of affairs in this hobby.
In general, very few people go to the shows anymore because you can sit
in your den, go on line, find exactly what you want and never be more
than 20 feet from a bathroom or the kitchen.
And the stuff gets shipped right to your door.


Jon Doyle wrote:

Beamer wrote in message ...

It was terrible.
What a waste of 2 days.



It was terrible it what way?

Jon

  #6  
Old November 16th 04, 02:06 PM
Lynne Stewart
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Posts: n/a
Default

Yah know, I haven't attended a show as a collector since 1996 and as a
dealer since 1997, so I ahve no right to voice thoughts on this topic, but
having said THAT, I'll talk anyway.
I admire those folks who do all of what you mentined below and more, it's an
amazingly tough way to stay involved in the hobby. My hats off to you and
the promoters.
It's been obvious for many years that there are advantages to the Internet.
MAny of the new generation of card collectors haven't ever done anything BUT
use the Internet and Ebay and it seems like only the *old crowd* clings to
the shows.
Good or bad? Good, I think. There is something to be said for getting off
own's duff and getting out to shows.
So, what do people think might work to get people into shows? Keeping costs
in mind, of course.
Lynne

"Beamer" wrote in message ...
Jon,
Maybe 200 people showed up for the show. It cost more money to buy
tables, drive to the show, set up, stay overnight then pack it all up and
go home with less product than you came with but you spent more money to
do the show then you made doing it.
That's a sad state of affairs in this hobby.
In general, very few people go to the shows anymore because you can sit in
your den, go on line, find exactly what you want and never be more than 20
feet from a bathroom or the kitchen.
And the stuff gets shipped right to your door.


Jon Doyle wrote:

Beamer wrote in message
...

It was terrible.
What a waste of 2 days.



It was terrible it what way?

Jon



  #7  
Old November 16th 04, 04:21 PM
MIKZCARDZ
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Posts: n/a
Default

Subject: Crowne plaza show
From: "Lynne Stewart"
Date: 11/16/04 8:06 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Yah know, I haven't attended a show as a collector since 1996 and as a
dealer since 1997, so I ahve no right to voice thoughts on this topic, but
having said THAT, I'll talk anyway.
I admire those folks who do all of what you mentined below and more, it's an
amazingly tough way to stay involved in the hobby. My hats off to you and
the promoters.
It's been obvious for many years that there are advantages to the Internet.
MAny of the new generation of card collectors haven't ever done anything BUT
use the Internet and Ebay and it seems like only the *old crowd* clings to
the shows.
Good or bad? Good, I think. There is something to be said for getting off
own's duff and getting out to shows.
So, what do people think might work to get people into shows? Keeping costs
in mind, of course.
Lynne


I'll pop in on this one...

I've been a dealer and collector for almost 15 years. Before ebay, shows were
everywhere in the Balt-DC area, as well as stores for that matter. The internet
has taken a very big bite out of "Real World"
retail and many show promoters/stores/dealers are no longer involved with
traditional NonSport Cards.

As a retailer/collector, I find great deals on newer product. Example...I just
purchased some 6 feet under unopened boxes for below Rittenhouse wholesale
cost. That's incredible, why would I buy any where else?

I still enjoy doing some shows just for the collector/customer that has looked
everywhere for a certain card or set and finds it at MY table and vice-versa. I
usually spend quite a lot of money at the Philly Show looking for vintage cards
and promos. It it almost impossible for me to list every card I have for sale
on ebay.

That personal interaction is great -- when you make money. As a dealer, if you
do not pay for your daily expenses, you've basically GIVEN AWAY cards.

How can we get more people to attend shows??

I'm afraid that Prices have to be competitive with ebay...

Card Companies should reduce the number of all cards distributed in the boxes
and even the amount of boxes produced. There are way too many regular singles.
You get an average of 35+ sets per case of any newer product. Auto Cards? 3-4
to a box anymore. This reduces the amount of money you can get for them. Sketch
Cards hold their value because of low production. If availabilty of all cards
were reduced...more money could be made at shows. Better than ebay deals could
be found at shows since you are able to negotiate right on the spot and do not
have bid against anyone.

I really would like to return to the early 1990's days of card production.

Remember when a "skymotion" card (1:720 packs) was a great find for $100.00???
And you could see sets sell for $20 a piece? Trade values go up and when I
could get a NSU valued $25 set for $15, I was a happy collector! Show me a new
base set that generates $25.00 anywhere?

You can't blame anyone for low prices on cards except the manufacturers who
flood the market. I also have to say that NonSport Update card prices for new
basic base sets are way off the mark. If I could not get so many base sets in a
case, I would not list them for $2.49 on eBay.

Mike Surratt
www.mikzcardz.com









  #8  
Old November 16th 04, 08:54 PM
Lynne Stewart
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Posts: n/a
Default


Bear in mind, I'm discussing, not flaming
But, wow, I can't say I agree with this. Or at least I'd have to ask how one
can say on one hand to reduce production and then say one wants to go back
to early 1990's prodction, I mean....wow, in Trekland anyway, that was the
era of MASSIVe over production. Sets and Skymotions got what they got back
then cause people broke by the packs, not the multi-cases and one might only
find one or two items like that in a whole region, let alone 25 of 'em on
Ebay in any given day. Production isn't fully the issue, lack of competition
was then. Only a few dealers broke in bulk and they were at shows able to
charge quite a bit.
Only a very few now are at the mercy of the dealer behind the glass who can
get away with charging whatever he wants and you GOTTA buy it cause you
really want that card. A collector can now chose between many dealers and
that has made prices competetive. On the other hand, the dealer might get a
chance to generate a larger client base then what he can generate locally
with less overhead...
SkyBox produced runs of 16,000 for TOS One and cards limited to 500 generate
(and still do) sales of $500. The Enterprise series I II and III with print
runs of 8,000 (approx) generates limited autos (300-500) and in many cases,
a seller can get about $50 for them. Something has changed, and I don't
think it lays fully at feet of production numbers.
Lynne

I really would like to return to the early 1990's days of card production.

Remember when a "skymotion" card (1:720 packs) was a great find for
$100.00???
And you could see sets sell for $20 a piece? Trade values go up and when I
could get a NSU valued $25 set for $15, I was a happy collector! Show me a
new
base set that generates $25.00 anywhere?

You can't blame anyone for low prices on cards except the manufacturers
who
flood the market. I also have to say that NonSport Update card prices for
new
basic base sets are way off the mark. If I could not get so many base sets
in a
case, I would not list them for $2.49 on eBay.

Mike Surratt
www.mikzcardz.com











  #9  
Old November 16th 04, 09:56 PM
MIKZCARDZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Lynne -- I'm flame proof lately ::smile::

Yes, I agree that Skybox over-ran the market in regards to Star Trek. Let's
face it though, it was much more affordable to buy a box or two and to complete
a set of cards, minus the HTF holos. Skybox also over produced those TNG sets
and they fell dramatically in price in a short time.

I'm not blaming all the decline of the hobby on manufacturers...

But, let's take a set like Marvel Masterpieces '92 -- Tin cards, 5 Foil Inserts
and a 100-card set. You could make money selling this set (still can) and
trying to complete the promo set was very difficult and FUN!

I miss those sets from the 90's...

Mike Surratt


Subject: Crowne plaza show
From: "Lynne Stewart"
Date: 11/16/04 2:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


Bear in mind, I'm discussing, not flaming
But, wow, I can't say I agree with this. Or at least I'd have to ask how one
can say on one hand to reduce production and then say one wants to go back
to early 1990's prodction, I mean....wow, in Trekland anyway, that was the
era of MASSIVe over production. Sets and Skymotions got what they got back
then cause people broke by the packs, not the multi-cases and one might only
find one or two items like that in a whole region, let alone 25 of 'em on
Ebay in any given day. Production isn't fully the issue, lack of competition
was then. Only a few dealers broke in bulk and they were at shows able to
charge quite a bit.
Only a very few now are at the mercy of the dealer behind the glass who can
get away with charging whatever he wants and you GOTTA buy it cause you
really want that card. A collector can now chose between many dealers and
that has made prices competetive. On the other hand, the dealer might get a
chance to generate a larger client base then what he can generate locally
with less overhead...
SkyBox produced runs of 16,000 for TOS One and cards limited to 500 generate
(and still do) sales of $500. The Enterprise series I II and III with print
runs of 8,000 (approx) generates limited autos (300-500) and in many cases,
a seller can get about $50 for them. Something has changed, and I don't
think it lays fully at feet of production numbers.
Lynne

I really would like to return to the early 1990's days of card production.

Remember when a "skymotion" card (1:720 packs) was a great find for
$100.00???
And you could see sets sell for $20 a piece? Trade values go up and when I
could get a NSU valued $25 set for $15, I was a happy collector! Show me a
new
base set that generates $25.00 anywhere?

You can't blame anyone for low prices on cards except the manufacturers
who
flood the market. I also have to say that NonSport Update card prices for
new
basic base sets are way off the mark. If I could not get so many base sets
in a
case, I would not list them for $2.49 on eBay.

Mike Surratt
www.mikzcardz.com



  #10  
Old November 16th 04, 10:02 PM
Lynne Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It becomes diffucult, I think, to put the geine back into the bottle .The
days of 6 card insert sets at a 1:12 ratio are gone. Good or bad is a moot
point.
I'd rather figure out a way to take what we have now, in the current format
of production and Ebay and yet still find a way to generate off-line buzz
and let's figure it out quick cause I'm coming to Philly in the spirng and I
wanna see it ROCK

Lynne

"MIKZCARDZ" wrote in message
...
Hi Lynne -- I'm flame proof lately ::smile::

Yes, I agree that Skybox over-ran the market in regards to Star Trek.
Let's
face it though, it was much more affordable to buy a box or two and to
complete
a set of cards, minus the HTF holos. Skybox also over produced those TNG
sets
and they fell dramatically in price in a short time.

I'm not blaming all the decline of the hobby on manufacturers...

But, let's take a set like Marvel Masterpieces '92 -- Tin cards, 5 Foil
Inserts
and a 100-card set. You could make money selling this set (still can) and
trying to complete the promo set was very difficult and FUN!

I miss those sets from the 90's...

Mike Surratt


Subject: Crowne plaza show
From: "Lynne Stewart"
Date: 11/16/04 2:54 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


Bear in mind, I'm discussing, not flaming
But, wow, I can't say I agree with this. Or at least I'd have to ask how
one
can say on one hand to reduce production and then say one wants to go back
to early 1990's prodction, I mean....wow, in Trekland anyway, that was the
era of MASSIVe over production. Sets and Skymotions got what they got
back
then cause people broke by the packs, not the multi-cases and one might
only
find one or two items like that in a whole region, let alone 25 of 'em on
Ebay in any given day. Production isn't fully the issue, lack of
competition
was then. Only a few dealers broke in bulk and they were at shows able to
charge quite a bit.
Only a very few now are at the mercy of the dealer behind the glass who
can
get away with charging whatever he wants and you GOTTA buy it cause you
really want that card. A collector can now chose between many dealers and
that has made prices competetive. On the other hand, the dealer might get
a
chance to generate a larger client base then what he can generate locally
with less overhead...
SkyBox produced runs of 16,000 for TOS One and cards limited to 500
generate
(and still do) sales of $500. The Enterprise series I II and III with
print
runs of 8,000 (approx) generates limited autos (300-500) and in many
cases,
a seller can get about $50 for them. Something has changed, and I don't
think it lays fully at feet of production numbers.
Lynne

I really would like to return to the early 1990's days of card
production.

Remember when a "skymotion" card (1:720 packs) was a great find for
$100.00???
And you could see sets sell for $20 a piece? Trade values go up and when
I
could get a NSU valued $25 set for $15, I was a happy collector! Show me
a
new
base set that generates $25.00 anywhere?

You can't blame anyone for low prices on cards except the manufacturers
who
flood the market. I also have to say that NonSport Update card prices
for
new
basic base sets are way off the mark. If I could not get so many base
sets
in a
case, I would not list them for $2.49 on eBay.

Mike Surratt
www.mikzcardz.com





 




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