A collecting forum. CollectingBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » CollectingBanter forum » Stamps » General Discussion
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

OT. Personal responsibility vs. collective one. On this day in History....12th Dec



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old December 19th 03, 03:41 AM
Peter D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:07:10 GMT, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Tracy Barber"

If compassions were a word that the Japanese knew and felt, an apology
would have been made by now - not a 1/2 arse one that we got sideways.

It seems that the U.S. did more to be compassionate / compensate than
the Japanese have done, but of course, I'm always missing the boat, so
I may be wrong. I may be right. I just may be the lunatic you're
looking for... :^P


If by "the Japanese" you mean the goverment (people) of that nation on

the
other side of the Pacific, then what does it have to do with the those

who
were interned and lost property? Those were not "the Japanese". The

point.
You appear to be making the same connnection that was what got the US

into
this mess in the first place.


OK, not all of them, but count the spies, the rogues, etc. Has anyone
ever done that - or were they all saints?


Dunno who were rogues, spies, or saint. Do know that they had a right to
presumption of innocence, the right not to have their goods siezed without
due process, the right not to be incarerated without an arrest, a stated
charge, and a trial by peers, etc. You know, the usual. And the least they
should expect from a nation that claims it fights to defend those same
rights for others. Not disputing the intent to fight, only the oddity of
suspending the rights of those at home while you fight for them abroad.
Seems conflicted to me.


Ads
  #52  
Old December 19th 03, 04:12 AM
Tracy Barber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:41:13 GMT, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:07:10 GMT, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Tracy Barber"

If compassions were a word that the Japanese knew and felt, an apology
would have been made by now - not a 1/2 arse one that we got sideways.

It seems that the U.S. did more to be compassionate / compensate than
the Japanese have done, but of course, I'm always missing the boat, so
I may be wrong. I may be right. I just may be the lunatic you're
looking for... :^P

If by "the Japanese" you mean the goverment (people) of that nation on

the
other side of the Pacific, then what does it have to do with the those

who
were interned and lost property? Those were not "the Japanese". The

point.
You appear to be making the same connnection that was what got the US

into
this mess in the first place.


OK, not all of them, but count the spies, the rogues, etc. Has anyone
ever done that - or were they all saints?


Dunno who were rogues, spies, or saint. Do know that they had a right to
presumption of innocence, the right not to have their goods siezed without
due process, the right not to be incarerated without an arrest, a stated
charge, and a trial by peers, etc. You know, the usual. And the least they
should expect from a nation that claims it fights to defend those same
rights for others. Not disputing the intent to fight, only the oddity of
suspending the rights of those at home while you fight for them abroad.
Seems conflicted to me.


As to my previous post, the govt. didn't know who were spies and who
weren't and couldn't take the risk.

YES, YES, YES - it was sad that this had to happen.

Unfortunately, a Jap spy was sending info to Tokyo about the
whereabouts of every damn ship in the harbor - and he did a good job
of it. To be fair, he wasn't the only thing that was goofy. Plenty
of other snafus (I really don't care what Stephen thinks of this
acronym) that caused enough damage in PH. Delayed messages, Churchill
knew, screwed up human error, wasn't there a radar problem?, the Japs
couldn't type in English, blah, blah, blah... too many to ponder.

One can only assume, when caught up in the (non?) hysteria (heh!) of
the day, that such a knee-jerk reaction would happen as a matter of
course.

Whereas, yes, the Germans had subs off the Atlantic sea walls, but
they weren't lobbing shells into Washington or sending those goofy
weather ballons across the Pacific to attack us. (Fortunately, only a
few people died because of those ballons - could have been worse with
their germ warfare crap.)

Germany and Italy only signed on against us AFTER Japan did. This was
part of thr tri-partite agreement. Plenty of German POWs housed in
Canada though...

Anyway, that was then. This is now. We have Guantanamo as a
reminder.

Tracy Barber
  #53  
Old December 20th 03, 02:30 AM
Peter D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
As to my previous post, the govt. didn't know who were spies and who
weren't and couldn't take the risk.


I'm sorry, Tracy, but that doesn't matter. Otherwise they might as well lock
everyone up. I mean that's the only guaranteed way to get all the spies,
yes?

The 'downside' of a democracy is that it is, well 'democratic'. the 'upside'
of a fascist state is that it is well, a fascist state. Democracies don't
lock people up for what they might be. They lock people up for _actions_
that can be _proven. They dont' lock people up because of their ethnicity or
colour. Ideally, that is.


  #54  
Old December 20th 03, 03:53 AM
Tracy Barber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 01:30:40 GMT, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
As to my previous post, the govt. didn't know who were spies and who
weren't and couldn't take the risk.


I'm sorry, Tracy, but that doesn't matter. Otherwise they might as well lock
everyone up. I mean that's the only guaranteed way to get all the spies,
yes?

The 'downside' of a democracy is that it is, well 'democratic'. the 'upside'
of a fascist state is that it is well, a fascist state. Democracies don't
lock people up for what they might be. They lock people up for _actions_
that can be _proven. They dont' lock people up because of their ethnicity or
colour. Ideally, that is.


Sorry, but it's easy to see things in hindsight that with foresight
are blinded.

Let's agree to disagree about the STATE OF THINGS in 1941, not looking
back on it today.

Were we there? No.

Tracy Barber
  #55  
Old December 20th 03, 08:56 AM
Peter D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 01:30:40 GMT, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Tracy Barber" wrote in message
As to my previous post, the govt. didn't know who were spies and who
weren't and couldn't take the risk.


I'm sorry, Tracy, but that doesn't matter. Otherwise they might as well

lock
everyone up. I mean that's the only guaranteed way to get all the spies,
yes?

The 'downside' of a democracy is that it is, well 'democratic'. the

'upside'
of a fascist state is that it is well, a fascist state. Democracies don't
lock people up for what they might be. They lock people up for _actions_
that can be _proven. They dont' lock people up because of their ethnicity

or
colour. Ideally, that is.


Sorry, but it's easy to see things in hindsight that with foresight
are blinded.


Tragically, the blindness was self-induced. And the tragedy was that the
blindness ignored the very foundation of the nation. The very rights that
the nation fought to so hard to secure were ignored. Much like the rights of
"spies" were ignored by the British Crown. When was that? Back in the 1700s
I think. It is said that those who do not learn from history are doomed to
repeat it's mistakes. True.

Let's agree to disagree about the STATE OF THINGS in 1941, not looking
back on it today.

Were we there? No.


If not being there disqualifies opinion, then none of us have a right to
speak. Come to think of it, that means none of us can comment on 1776 or
much that followed. IOW, it's an absurb disqualifier.

But, yes, we can agree that my point is the Bill of Rights and the
Constitution were ignored. You can agree to disagree. After all, it is a
democracy -- well, for now. :-)


  #56  
Old December 21st 03, 03:21 AM
TC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:04:04 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:


Amen! What is a collection of WWII stamps and covers like mine if it isn't
first and foremost political? In fact, I doubt that I would be very
interesting in continuing that collection if it weren't for the fascinating
history, large chunks of it political, that I learn as a result of the
collection. I'm trying to get a Vietnam War collection started. It seems
rather political already....

Bob


That is because most wars are started by politicians.

Blair



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GLIMPSES OF A MYSTERY GLIMPSES OF A MYSTERY Books 0 August 29th 04 06:07 AM
FA: CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN PHILOSOPHY - PERSONAL STATEMENTS - Two Volume Set DuLaze Books 0 June 30th 04 07:15 PM
Ira has been served! Ira Stein Coins 53 May 8th 04 08:48 PM
Interesting case Ned Flanders Coins 1 April 16th 04 10:34 PM
FS: 1989 "Personal Fouls" (N.C. State Basketaball) 1st Edition Hardcover Book J.R. Sinclair Basketball 0 November 25th 03 06:31 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CollectingBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.