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What is a cameo finish?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th 06, 02:31 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael
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Posts: 33
Default What is a cameo finish?

Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?

  #2  
Old August 9th 06, 03:18 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
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Posts: 3,391
Default What is a cameo finish?


"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


If you can picture a piece of cameo jewelry, the portrait usually stands out as
light-toned in contrast to its darker background. On a cameo coin, the portrait
is typically matte-finished and frosty looking in contrast to its shiny,
polished background. This cameo feature is found most often on proof struck
coins, especially those US proofs produced in the past 20 years or so. "Cameo"
is not a grade, per se, but is an attractive feature that can increase the value
of a coin.

Bruce


  #3  
Old August 10th 06, 06:39 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default What is a cameo finish?

So essentially all proofs are cameos? A proof fits the description.
Or is it some rare phenomenon that happens to proof coins.


Bruce Remick wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


If you can picture a piece of cameo jewelry, the portrait usually stands out as
light-toned in contrast to its darker background. On a cameo coin, the portrait
is typically matte-finished and frosty looking in contrast to its shiny,
polished background. This cameo feature is found most often on proof struck
coins, especially those US proofs produced in the past 20 years or so. "Cameo"
is not a grade, per se, but is an attractive feature that can increase the value
of a coin.

Bruce


  #4  
Old August 10th 06, 10:46 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
note.boy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,418
Default What is a cameo finish?


"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
So essentially all proofs are cameos? A proof fits the description.
Or is it some rare phenomenon that happens to proof coins.


Bruce Remick wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


If you can picture a piece of cameo jewelry, the portrait usually stands
out as
light-toned in contrast to its darker background. On a cameo coin, the
portrait
is typically matte-finished and frosty looking in contrast to its shiny,
polished background. This cameo feature is found most often on proof
struck
coins, especially those US proofs produced in the past 20 years or so.
"Cameo"
is not a grade, per se, but is an attractive feature that can increase
the value
of a coin.

Bruce



If the die used to strike a proof coin has the portrait area sandblasted
that results in a cameo, the portrait is frosted and the fields are mirror.
Billy


  #5  
Old August 10th 06, 12:21 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default What is a cameo finish?


"Michael" wrote in message
oups.com...
So essentially all proofs are cameos? A proof fits the description.
Or is it some rare phenomenon that happens to proof coins.



AlexBivin described the cameo effect pretty well here, along with what causes
it. All proofs are not cameos. Most pre-1980 US proof coins are not. All
coins in recent US proof sets have been produced to intentionally incorporate
the cameo feature, except for (IIRC) the proof silver and gold bullion coins.
As has also been mentioned, some older BU circulation strikes can have a cameo
appearance, and these are highly sought after by some collectors due to their
scarcity. Morgan silver dollars come to mind here. If you'll check out some
major auction catalogs, you'll often see a few choice coins from the 1800's that
display a cameo effect.

Bruce


  #6  
Old August 9th 06, 04:59 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10
Default What is a cameo finish?

Michael wrote:
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


http://www.pcgs.com/lingo.chtml?Letter=C
  #7  
Old August 10th 06, 10:11 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mike Marotta
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Posts: 442
Default What is a cameo finish?

Michael wrote:
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


Just to add a point: what has been said is correct for MODERN coins.
Also, as noted many Morgan Dollars have cameo and deep cameo features.
The Mint was forced to strike millions of these useless coins and they
went through hundreds of dies. New dies under adequate pressure
created the "cameo" appearance of a proof-like coin, though, of course,
the coins were NOT proofs.

Proofs -- by definition -- are created from multiple strikes with
polished dies on specially prepared planchets. Proofs probably go back
no farther than the late 1600s as rarities. As we would recognize
them, they are identifiable from records of the early 1800s and
forward.

The "matte proof" finish of the early 20th century, invented in France,
and briefly popular here, never has a cameo effect, by its very nature.

(If you go to the ANA website, www.money.org, and click on the dropdown
for Communications, you can select Numismatist, the monthly magazine.
In the 2005 Archives, the May issue has a cover story that I wrote
about Proof Double Eagles.)

Mike M.

  #8  
Old August 10th 06, 04:40 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default What is a cameo finish?

Aren't Matte Proofs used all the time here? The UNC versions of all
Commems are essentially Matte Proofs. The UNC version of the 1986
Liberty Half Dollar was a true mint quality specimen. But the UNC
versions of the recent Franklin Dollars are no doubt matte proofs.


Mike Marotta wrote:
Michael wrote:
Having never really collected certified coins, I would like to know
what is meant by the term cameo when used in the grading of both proof
and mint state coins?


Just to add a point: what has been said is correct for MODERN coins.
Also, as noted many Morgan Dollars have cameo and deep cameo features.
The Mint was forced to strike millions of these useless coins and they
went through hundreds of dies. New dies under adequate pressure
created the "cameo" appearance of a proof-like coin, though, of course,
the coins were NOT proofs.

Proofs -- by definition -- are created from multiple strikes with
polished dies on specially prepared planchets. Proofs probably go back
no farther than the late 1600s as rarities. As we would recognize
them, they are identifiable from records of the early 1800s and
forward.

The "matte proof" finish of the early 20th century, invented in France,
and briefly popular here, never has a cameo effect, by its very nature.

(If you go to the ANA website, www.money.org, and click on the dropdown
for Communications, you can select Numismatist, the monthly magazine.
In the 2005 Archives, the May issue has a cover story that I wrote
about Proof Double Eagles.)

Mike M.


  #9  
Old August 10th 06, 08:57 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mike Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default What is a cameo finish?

Michael wrote:
Aren't Matte Proofs used all the time here? The UNC versions of all
Commems are essentially Matte Proofs.


No. By definition, a proof coin must be (MUST be)
1. struck multiple times.

2. from specially prepared dies

3. on specially prepared planchets.

It is true that there are cases where proof dies were dragooned into
business strike usage. However, it is generally true that the
diagnostics for a proof coin have little to do with the frostiness,
etc., and everything to do with the DIE diagnostics. Proof coins are
struck from proof dies. Proof dies are (generally; most often; with
exceptions) NOT the same dies as the ones used for business strikes.

(Did you read the article I wrote on Proof Gold?)

  #10  
Old August 11th 06, 01:24 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default What is a cameo finish?

The three requirments below would apply to the unc versions of modern
commems. I am under the impression that they prepare the dies the same
then sand blast them with fine granuals to give them the matte finish.
So technically it costs more to make the UNC versions that the proofs.
The UNC Marines dollars is no doubt a matte proof.

Now another possibility would be for the dies not to be prepared as
well but say 90% as good then the flaws are covered by the
sandblasting.


Mike Marotta wrote:
Michael wrote:
Aren't Matte Proofs used all the time here? The UNC versions of all
Commems are essentially Matte Proofs.


No. By definition, a proof coin must be (MUST be)
1. struck multiple times.

2. from specially prepared dies

3. on specially prepared planchets.


 




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