Newbie Questions No. 1,820 - 2, 945 fountain pens, Rotring and Parker Sonnet

1) What is the deal with these fountain pens?

Everyone I purchase seem not to work very well. For example, I placed
a new ink cartridge in a fountain pen today and I could not get it to
write. For assistance, I dabbed the tip of the pen in a few drops of
water. Ink starting to flow very rapidly, but as soon as I took the pen
out of the "little puddle" I could not get the pen to write. I am
embarass to admit that this is the third fountain I have this
experience with. Any thoughts on what I got to do to fix them or have
I accidentally damaged the pen already?

2) Rotring Pens

I am still trying to understand the hierarchy of pens and what makes a
pen more valuable then another (age, amount in production, MSRP). In
my small collection, I have a number of rotring pens. Generally, the
pens look pretty shap, write well and can be bought for under $50.
However, on most of the pen aficianado sites, I don't see much written
about the company? How come?

Do true pen collectors consider these pens trite and gaudy (I know that
the Core series is less-than attractive, but they have a number of
other styles that are pretty sharp and modern looking)?

The only problem I have had with rotring pens is that the clasp on one
of my pens became loose after I had the pen clasped too my shirt.
There is no way to fix it and if there is, the cost presumably would
outweigh the price of the pen. On a similar note, I think Sensa has
some great pens, but because they are so popular you can get them
anywhere and everywhere?

Are pens made by these companies just considered introductory pen for
pens collectors and not very unique?

3) I bought my frist Parker Sonnet rollerball. It is very nice pen and
considering that I have seen it advertisied for $140, I think I got a
good deal on it. BUT- I can't get over how light the pen is? I don't
like big bulkly, 5lbs pens, but had I not known better, I would have
thought it was cheap $3 pen made in Taiwan. (So there is no
misunderstanding, I bought the real McCoy and have the [packaging and
paperwork to substantiate it). Are my expectations too high or have
other collectors also been a little surprise by the Parker Sonnet?

wrote in message
oups.com...
1) What is the deal with these fountain pens?

Everyone I purchase seem not to work very well. For example, I placed
a new ink cartridge in a fountain pen today and I could not get it to
write. For assistance, I dabbed the tip of the pen in a few drops of
water. Ink starting to flow very rapidly, but as soon as I took the pen
out of the "little puddle" I could not get the pen to write. I am
embarass to admit that this is the third fountain I have this
experience with. Any thoughts on what I got to do to fix them or have
I accidentally damaged the pen already?

If that's all you've done, I don't see how you could have damaged the pens.
Some new pens are slow-starters. Some need to be flushed with water or maybe
water with a drop of dish detergent, but I've never had to do that with any
of my pens (over 50 at last count).

I have 5 Sonnet fps and 7 working Cores (+4 not used, not yet inked [Your
Royal Orangeness, I swear I don't know how it happened, three are that
Eternium ORANGE and gray that I wasn't going to get. Yuck. Two pens were
given to me. Surely, there wasn't any way for you to tell them that I needed
more orange in my life?!]) and haven't had any problems whatsoever. Maybe
I'm more patient than you in waiting to let the ink start flowing? When it
takes longer than I'm willing, I set the pen capped w/ nib down in a cup to
let gravity work while I do something else for about 15 minutes. The few
pens that I've done this with start right up every time.

2) Rotring Pens

I am still trying to understand the hierarchy of pens and what makes a
pen more valuable then another (age, amount in production, MSRP). In
my small collection, I have a number of rotring pens. Generally, the
pens look pretty shap, write well and can be bought for under $50.
However, on most of the pen aficianado sites, I don't see much written
about the company? How come?

Do true pen collectors consider these pens trite and gaudy (I know that
the Core series is less-than attractive, but they have a number of
other styles that are pretty sharp and modern looking)?

What's your definition of "true pen collector" and you may want to consider
your audience before you answer. Google this group for earlier posts if you
need to see what type of collectors the majority of participants are.

I collect pens that I like to use regardless of future value. The Core was
designed and intended for the school-age crowd so it's radical compared to
something intended for grown-ups.

The only problem I have had with rotring pens is that the clasp on one
of my pens became loose after I had the pen clasped too my shirt.
There is no way to fix it and if there is, the cost presumably would
outweigh the price of the pen.

Sounds like it wasn't a Core which clip is easy to tighten with one of those
small bits that come in a Leatherman accessory set.

On a similar note, I think Sensa has
some great pens, but because they are so popular you can get them
anywhere and everywhere?

I have a couple of Sensas and considered but rejected more. I'm not sure
what your question is.

Are pens made by these companies just considered introductory pen for
pens collectors and not very unique?

The affordable pens, less than $300 IMO although some pay more for pens that
suit them better, are made to be used and may or may not be the type of
collectible in which you seem to be interested. It all depends. Like books,
it depends on condition as well as what sometimes seems to amount to nothing
more than faddish appeal in addition to uniqueness and quality of
workmanship in manufacturing and design. Pens made to be collectible works
of art go as high as $265,000 ("La Modernista Diamonds" made by Caran d'Ache
and sold by Harrods in 1999).

You can be a collector of affordable user pens or pick a higher price point
at your wallet's discretion. For investment purposes, I'd rather buy an
original oil painting by an up-and-coming artist, but that's still too risky
for me. Stocks, bonds, and real estate are still the tried and true ways to
make money through investing. Until you learn the ins and outs of pen
collecting, I suggest that your collection consists of pens that you simply
have a burning desire to have in your possession for purely personal and
totally subjective reasons.

3) I bought my frist Parker Sonnet rollerball. It is very nice pen and
considering that I have seen it advertisied for $140, I think I got a
good deal on it. BUT- I can't get over how light the pen is? I don't
like big bulkly, 5lbs pens, but had I not known better, I would have
thought it was cheap $3 pen made in Taiwan. (So there is no
misunderstanding, I bought the real McCoy and have the [packaging and
paperwork to substantiate it). Are my expectations too high or have
other collectors also been a little surprise by the Parker Sonnet?

Interesting. My lacque Sonnet rb feels heavier than my lacque fps. Since a
lighter weight pen is easier on the hand over long writing sessions, if you
like the pen, don't sweat the small stuff. If you want a heavier Sonnet,
you'll have to consider one that's metal like a sterling silver model. Can't
recall if the Sonnet comes in the much less expensive stainless steel, but
that will be heavier, too, if available.

HTH.

--
~~Bluesea~~ who suspects that in the end, it'll all be small stuff
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:44:57 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

Interesting. My lacque Sonnet rb feels heavier than my lacque fps. Since a
lighter weight pen is easier on the hand over long writing sessions, if you
like the pen, don't sweat the small stuff. If you want a heavier Sonnet,
you'll have to consider one that's metal like a sterling silver model. Can't
recall if the Sonnet comes in the much less expensive stainless steel, but
that will be heavier, too, if available.

Now, now - I agreed up to here, but for some of us (repeat - some of
us), a heavier pen is more relaxing, maybe especially over long
writing periods. For whatever reason, I end up clenching light pens
(especially if they are narrow) and don't write relaxed. A
well-balanced heavier pen, OTOH, can glide. I find the Pelikan 800s to
be great...

I also can't stand those BICs, for the same reason. I'm one of those
that end up with BICs with lots of crack lines near the tip, from
bearing down too hard and clenching the too-narrow body. Put a nice
sized heavier pen in my hand and all is well. (This is not a challenge
to the BIC lovers on the list - if you find an inexpensive pen that
generally works well to work for you, you are way ahead of the game.)

I'm not as surprised about the roller ball - there's not much 'works'
in there, so if you have a plastic roller ball filler in particular, a
lot of roller balls end up sort of light compared to a ball point pen
or fountain pen of the same model.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:44:57 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

Interesting. My lacque Sonnet rb feels heavier than my lacque fps. Since a
lighter weight pen is easier on the hand over long writing sessions, if
you
like the pen, don't sweat the small stuff. If you want a heavier Sonnet,
you'll have to consider one that's metal like a sterling silver model.
Can't
recall if the Sonnet comes in the much less expensive stainless steel, but
that will be heavier, too, if available.

Now, now - I agreed up to here, but for some of us (repeat - some of
us), a heavier pen is more relaxing, maybe especially over long
writing periods. For whatever reason, I end up clenching light pens
(especially if they are narrow) and don't write relaxed. A
well-balanced heavier pen, OTOH, can glide. I find the Pelikan 800s to
be great...

Yes, of course, to each his own. That's why selecting a pen can't be
anything but subjective. No one can say that any one particular pen is the
best for everybody.

However, it isn't logical that a heavier pen would be easier on the hand for
pages and pages of writing simply because more weight = more energy or
muscular strain = more tiring & shorter duration. As with any other
physical activity, less weight = less energy or muscular strain = less
tiring & longer duration. Think back to the heyday of the fp before bps when
everyone used a fp all day, every day. Those pens were not heavy. Some were
lighter simply because they were thinner and shorter, like for the lady
models, and some were heavier due to being thicker and longer, like for
men's models, but those were small differences in weight, not typically
(ultra) lightweight vs. medium weight vs. heavyweight like we've got
available now. Since you're a man on two wheels, consider why racers prefer
lightweight over heavier bikes. Same thing with pens - lighter pens are
better for the long haul.

If you clench more with comparably thick, although lightweight fps, it may
be a matter of technique, learning to relax your grip and not grasp so
tightly. Do you post the cap? I found that posting alters the balance and
caused me to tighten my grip to compensate. I don't post caps anymore.

You've been around pens long enough to know that fps & rbs don't require one
to bear down as with bps to get an acceptable line, haven't you? It's a
different technique that bp users don't always pick up when switching to
fps. Or vice versa.

For example, it's fairly consistent for about any of my bps to not produce
an acceptable line on certain papers and practically always for checkbook
carbonless copies after my using a fp or rb for several days simply because,
forgetting to change my technique, I don't bear down as hard. Bearing down
harder demands that my grip also be tightened. I have to make a conscious
decision to change my technique when switching from fp/rb to bp. As a
result, I have to date my checks then lift to ensure that the date went
through onto the copy before proceeding. Since it's typical for me to write
checks only once a month, you can see how ingrained is my fp/rb technique. I
changed last year to using a Core with Noodler's waterproof/tamperproof
black to write checks and the conscious decision to change techniques when
changing pens has totally gone by the wayside because my signal (changing
type of pen) is absent. Lifting the check after dating has been the best,
but sometimes I forget to do that, too, and when I rip out the check, a
blank copy stares at me. sigh

But, you've got a Pelikan with which you're content and I don't think anyone
would dare say that Pels aren't excellent pens. You might not have much
reason to change. You know, "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it."

Then, there are those who say that thin pens are easier on the hand than
thick. Thin, thick, light, heavy, long, short, writing pens/signature pens,
fp, rb, bp, mp - the discussion continues and can not be resolved to
everyone's satisfaction. Thus, generalities prevail.

I'm not as surprised about the roller ball - there's not much 'works'
in there, so if you have a plastic roller ball filler in particular, a
lot of roller balls end up sort of light compared to a ball point pen
or fountain pen of the same model.

Parker rb refills are metal with 3/4" of plastic on the top end. My Sonnet
rb is weighted down near the opening for the point more than the comparable
area on the fp. The bp and mp are different creatures altogether being
slimmer and having more of the typical Parker taper down through the grip to
the point so cannot be compared to the rb and fp even though they're all
black lacque Sonnets. shrug Go figger.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:31:58 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

However, it isn't logical that a heavier pen would be easier on the hand for
pages and pages of writing simply because more weight = more energy or
muscular strain = more tiring & shorter duration. As with any other
physical activity, less weight = less energy or muscular strain = less
tiring & longer duration.

OTOH, weight doesn't necessarily lead to muscular strain or stress,
unless it exceeds a threshold, or it is repetitive in a manner to
cause damage from repetitive stress.

I don't want to make this into more than it is, but there are a lot of
activities in my regular week that take more effort than hours on
hours of writing with even the Pelikan 1000. Hand strain is not an
issue - it is purely an issue of what is relaxing and comfortable, and
that is a bigger and heavier, better balanced pen. Light pens seem to
lack any feeling of balance for me, so I don't like them. And if I
write with a smaller pen, I prefer a pen such as lacquer on metal
precisely because it has some weight.

When writing with a pen takes more effort than riding six or seven
hours on the bike, or if any of the broken fingers gets more
arthritic, maybe weight will become a negative issue for me, but that
is not currently the case. FWIW, the most stressful pen I write with
of all that I have are simple quills - and Chinese brushes - primarily
because it requires more to hold them in proper relationship to the
paper than a fp that 'holds' its own position easily. That's why I
write with a fountain pen.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:31:58 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

Since you're a man on two wheels, consider why racers prefer
lightweight over heavier bikes. Same thing with pens - lighter pens are
better for the long haul.

Oh, and this is not the case, either. Racers race light bikes because
of the competitive advantage, and bike handling in a 100 person pack
in a crit is different than riding alone on the road. A tourist
riding for the long haul, loaded or not, will often ride a heavier
bike with more relaxed angles and better balance/less twitchy steering
because they gain more from total body comfort than they lose from
weight. If I want to ride a 40 kilo time trial, I might ride my Fuji
Roubaix Pro, but if I'm doing a century ride, it would most likely be
on my much heavier recumbent or a rather massive recumbent tandem with
my wife. At the end of the day, both are far more relaxing and
comfortable.

If I'm ever in a speed writing contest, I promise to revisit the whole
weight thing again. It had better be 'legibility optional' though.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:44:57 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

Interesting. My lacque Sonnet rb feels heavier than my lacque fps. Since a
lighter weight pen is easier on the hand over long writing sessions, if
you
like the pen, don't sweat the small stuff. If you want a heavier Sonnet,
you'll have to consider one that's metal like a sterling silver model.
Can't
recall if the Sonnet comes in the much less expensive stainless steel, but
that will be heavier, too, if available.

Now, now - I agreed up to here, but for some of us (repeat - some of
us), a heavier pen is more relaxing, maybe especially over long
writing periods. For whatever reason, I end up clenching light pens
(especially if they are narrow) and don't write relaxed. A
well-balanced heavier pen, OTOH, can glide. I find the Pelikan 800s to
be great...

I also can't stand those BICs, for the same reason. I'm one of those
that end up with BICs with lots of crack lines near the tip, from
bearing down too hard and clenching the too-narrow body. Put a nice
sized heavier pen in my hand and all is well. (This is not a challenge
to the BIC lovers on the list - if you find an inexpensive pen that
generally works well to work for you, you are way ahead of the game.)

I'm not as surprised about the roller ball - there's not much 'works'
in there, so if you have a plastic roller ball filler in particular, a
lot of roller balls end up sort of light compared to a ball point pen
or fountain pen of the same model.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels..


I like lighter and smaller pens.
My first pen was a waterman etalon, smooth writer but after a while it felt
too heavy and metallic.
Then I tried an Aurora Optima, smooth, gorgeous and I liked it for a while.
Then I got a Pelican 600 with the Mottishaw-enhanced for more flexiness.
A vintage Conway Stewart 58 gave me a first taste of vintage fine point
springiness and it became my
favorite pen, followed by an old Conklin fine point vest pocket pen, which
I used but I wished were larger.
I finally bought what I expected would be my ultimate pen, an old waterman
red/blk ripple fine point
super flexy nib. And I used it and I couldn't write smoothly with it, I
kept checking the pen, nothing i could see.
Then I road tested pens and learned that I wrote better with a thinner
smaller pen, and it was more comfortable.
Into the case goes the Waterman along with my other fancy pens.
Right now my favorite is a waterman 12, 100 year old eyedropper, exfine
fairly firm nib, still abit of spring.
Weighs almost nothing, leaves a line as soon as it touches paper. I'd bid
on it on ebay, got it and put it somewhere,
found it a month later and it being my first eyedropper, had no clue how to
fill it.
It's never been to the shop. When I guessed how to get ink in it it became
my favorite pen. Cost under $30.
Use has worn off much of the gold finish on the decorative metal rings,
this pen was someone's favorite before me.

IMHO, YMMV, etc etc with 30+ restored and new pens on the desk and in the
case and with another dozen
in the drawer, vintage, waitng to be sent to RB for sack and smoothing and
such, I like old lightweight
pens barely thicker than a pencil. I can write smoothly for for hours, no
pressure, no clenching, it fits my hand.
It's going to be a learning process, like finding a brand of running shoe
that works for you.
I use Noodlers Black almost exclusively. It's a great ink.

PS Ballpoints, who cares? I carry a fisher spacepen in my pocket with my
keys for writing checks and phone#''s.
It always writes, even out of the washing machine when I forget it was in
my pocket. Has to be the fisher
refill though, the eversharp refill blobs up constantly. JM$0.02

On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:48:08 GMT, "JP" wrote:

I like old lightweight
pens barely thicker than a pencil. I can write smoothly for for hours, no
pressure, no clenching, it fits my hand.
It's going to be a learning process, like finding a brand of running shoe
that works for you.

And that's really the point. I had a Chinese instructor for writing
grass characters, and he was comfortable with what I found to be an
unsupported, uncomfortable position, writing with a brush. And it is
relative - a Pelikan 800 or 1000 is heavier than many pens and
certainly more substantial, but there are some small, even inexpensive
pens that are noticeably heavier.

The pens I find most uncomfortable for me are the thin, heavy ones.
The closest description of what it feels to write with to me is
loathing. I think it has something to do with that much weight, yet it
only sits against a small part of my hand, so it simply doesn't feel
right.

I've had two that fit in this category (one purchased, one a gift)
and they are both gone. I think one was a small lacquered pen with a
metal body and it was really heavy for such a small thing and the
other seemed to be made from a resin that outweighed steel (small
exaggeration) - maybe an alternate use for resin based tank armor...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:31:58 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

Since you're a man on two wheels, consider why racers prefer
lightweight over heavier bikes. Same thing with pens - lighter pens are
better for the long haul.

Oh, and this is not the case, either. Racers race light bikes because
of the competitive advantage, and bike handling in a 100 person pack
in a crit is different than riding alone on the road. A tourist
riding for the long haul, loaded or not, will often ride a heavier
bike with more relaxed angles and better balance/less twitchy steering
because they gain more from total body comfort than they lose from
weight. If I want to ride a 40 kilo time trial, I might ride my Fuji
Roubaix Pro, but if I'm doing a century ride, it would most likely be
on my much heavier recumbent or a rather massive recumbent tandem with
my wife. At the end of the day, both are far more relaxing and
comfortable.

If I'm ever in a speed writing contest, I promise to revisit the whole
weight thing again. It had better be 'legibility optional' though.

It seems to me that I could use this discussion to support my claim, but
since this isn't about bicycles...

I'm just glad that there's a variety of pens from which to choose.

Thanks for the dialog.

--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

"Curtis L. Russell" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:31:58 -0500, "Bluesea"
wrote:

However, it isn't logical that a heavier pen would be easier on the hand
for
pages and pages of writing simply because more weight = more energy or
muscular strain = more tiring & shorter duration. As with any other
physical activity, less weight = less energy or muscular strain = less
tiring & longer duration.

OTOH, weight doesn't necessarily lead to muscular strain or stress,
unless it exceeds a threshold, or it is repetitive in a manner to
cause damage from repetitive stress.

Exceeding the threshold is what I was referring to. Writer's cramp occurs
later with a fp compared to a bp and later with a lighter fp compared to a
heavier fp.

I don't want to make this into more than it is, but there are a lot of
activities in my regular week that take more effort than hours on
hours of writing with even the Pelikan 1000.

That's one of the reasons selecting a pen is subjective. Some need to write
pages and pages and some need to write notes or only signatures.

Hand strain is not an
issue - it is purely an issue of what is relaxing and comfortable, and
that is a bigger and heavier, better balanced pen. Light pens seem to
lack any feeling of balance for me, so I don't like them. And if I
write with a smaller pen, I prefer a pen such as lacquer on metal
precisely because it has some weight.

When writing with a pen takes more effort than riding six or seven
hours on the bike, or if any of the broken fingers gets more
arthritic, maybe weight will become a negative issue for me, but that
is not currently the case. FWIW, the most stressful pen I write with
of all that I have are simple quills - and Chinese brushes - primarily
because it requires more to hold them in proper relationship to the
paper than a fp that 'holds' its own position easily. That's why I
write with a fountain pen.

Thanks for the discussion .


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.