Quantegy plant to reopen soon.

On 15 May 2005 06:04:42 -0700, "UNIVERSAL GENIUS"
wrote:

Test results DO lie- if they are from a person such as yourself, who
worked a lazy-ass job snip

I worked hard for years.

in a ****ty union snip

Mine's considered one of the best in the nation, and has bucked the
trend of shrinkage.

never owned an Akai snip

Had one...ho hum.

or Telex snip

Who'd want one of THOSE wacky things???

and you know **** to boot. Add to it, the natural degradation of your
hearing- you are over 65 years old- snip

Another lie...Noodles spouts whatever he believes to be the truth
(like his religious and political lunacies) and has no idea of my age.

bad one- which is why you rely on an oscilloscope to test your ONE AND
ONLY 8-track deck. snip

You don't test audio performance with an o-scope, moron. I have other
dedicated test equipment for various tests. Since I've adopted a
policy of "never wisening up a chump" such as yourself, we'll let you
hazard to guess on what equipment is valid in testing audio gear. I'm
wiling to bet large you have NO idea.

I have made more home recorded 8-track tapes in the last 30 years, than
you will ever live to see at one time. snip

Funny, how you only entered the "8 track hobby" back in 2002, as per
your own Usenet posts, which are available for all to see in your much
loved "goo goo groopz" archives. 30 years? You couldn't afford a
recorder back then, because you couldn't hold a job, remember?

They all basically sound the same, with
Scotch and Certron sounding the best. snip

See my test results on both. Certron's loud, but noisy with no top
end. Hard to hear that top end through those 6X9 speakers mounted in
little Philipine mahogany boxes, isn't it, Noodles? HAR!

About the only one that I can say sounds like ****, is a Radio Shack blank of any type. snip

....which is what you were making your "alignment cartridge" frauds on,
wasn't it, Noodles? By the way, I took lots of pictures of that
fraud, so I have ample documentation.

If you are going to compare decks, then you should own a VARIETY of
them- which you do not. snip

Unlike you, a mental case, I get rid of stuff I have no use for.
Right now I have four...three Wollensaks I used for testing and
comparison and an Akais 83.

You only own ONLY a Wollensak 8055, the worst
Wolly ever made BTW, and your faulty "findings" from that one ****ty DC
motor deck, you proclaim correct for all decks made- and paint the
results with a wide brush on Usenet. snip

Dumped the 8055 in the trash after stripping it for some parts. Not a
great machine. I own an 8075, two 8056s and the Akai right now, and
the Akai's going away, as is one of the 8056s. Next?

Furthermore, if you had any REAL INTEREST in 8-tracks, you would own an
AC MOTORED deck. snip

I do...it's always off speed, and it does have truncated bass
response, as do all Akais.

It's obvious you can't ****ing AFFORD a good 8-track
deck, so you're stuck with that POS you have. Add to it, your
constant disdain for 8-tracks, and how you prefer cassettes and CD,
what the **** are you even doing here ?? snip

To out you as the fraudster and con artist that you are, Noodles.
That was my original entry into this group...to chase down a thief and
expose him to the world, and labor successfully at ruining his Usenet
and ebay fraud business. I'll continue to impact your income until
you just pack up and go away. You should consider dumping your
computer and doing what all the other rag pickers do...collect your
crap and sell it at the local flea markets and rummage sales, like so
many other unintelligent people of limited means do.

Why don't you go hang out with the other undesireables on your ****ty
new "8trackheathen" site ? This site TOOK OFF after you assholes all
left. snip

"Took off?" You're the only posted, by and large, and me following up
EVERY post so everyone that may happen into this group knows you for
the fraud, cheat and liar you are. All they have to do is look at
your posts in the archives. You shot yourself in the foot so many
times, it's a wonder you can walk!

COMING SOON: A compendium of Noodles' lies, lunacies, frauds and
scams, all available through the Google archives for the world to see.
Watch for it!

I owned a Wollensak 8055, it was the WORST wow/fluttering deck I ever
tested in my life- it was LAUGHABLE that's how bad it was- and your
so-called "tests" posts in this forum all complain about wow/flutter-
well no ****ing wonder. snip

I don't have wow/flutter problems anymore, or I guess you can't pay
attention long enough to read the posts. Besides, I don't even have
an 8055. It wasn't that good, with lousy metering, but it has a low
time capstan and bearing assembly and a good spare 0775 head, as well
as various other hardware parts. While my decks are rock solid in
terms of speed, there still are some cartridge designs prone to
flutter. I've also since discovered that tape back tension on TC8s is
CRITICAL to preventing high frequency flutter that cannot be
controlled by the capstan, a common problem with any pressure
pad/single capstan system. That's why the better cassette decks in
the '80s all went to dual capstan drive to isolate the tape at the
head/pressure pad from anything happening in the tape storage area.

finally, you are actually STUPID enough to put an 8-track in your car,
which unless it's a vintage 1960-70's machine, is a brain damaged dumb
ass move on your part. snip

STicks and stones, Noodles.

Well you ARE stupid snip

It's pretty obvious by these posts who the stupid one is.

The thing to play in a car, is a CD-R, if those get
ruined you can just ****can them- no loss- and make another. snip

Explain your premise, since it makes NO sense whatsoever.

It's nice to have you off your meds again, Noodles, so I can further
drive you toward a psychotic break, into a mental hospital, and thus,
off of Usenet and ebay.

dB

Of course, Trip's arguments on not playing 8-tracks in the car has a
major weakness...8-tracks were made to satisfy the U.S. "car culture,"
however poorly designed they were for actual use, thanks to
heated-and-applied labels all-too-susceptible to bubbling (though RCA
carts seem to have never really had the problem many others did), and
the fact that, eventually, the nice brown plastic with your music on it
melts into an ugly brown pancake (with some black rubber roller sauce
on top). But still, what's the point in collecting 8-tracks if you
aren't going to enjoy them and show off your (semi-)great stereo on the
road? As soon as I get my plastic-hippie-certified Microbus, it's quad
and a lot of cruisin' around town, my friend.

On 15 May 2005 18:46:40 -0700, "Jonny the 8-Tracker!"
wrote:

Of course, Trip's arguments on not playing 8-tracks in the car has a
major weakness...8-tracks were made to satisfy the U.S. "car culture," snip

The kid's got it right, except for one detail...it was Earl Muntz with
his Fidelipak based 4 track that originally satisfied the market, not
William Lear's poached 8 track design. Cartridge had two major
applications...car audio and broadcast...8 track won the car cartridge
battle, while the Muntz/Fidelipak design was the standard of the
broadcast industry for decades...still is, for analog.

eventually, the nice brown plastic with your music on it
melts into an ugly brown pancake (with some black rubber roller sauce
on top). snip

Actually, the brown is ferric oxide. The "plastic" is clear. Tape
only melts at very high temperatures. What happens is the oxide
binder, which holds the oxide particles to the backing material,
starts to fail. The tape also suffers magnetization. I doublt you'll
find a brown "pancake", however...unless the cart's been in a fire.

But still, what's the point in collecting 8-tracks if you
aren't going to enjoy them and show off your (semi-)great stereo on the
road? As soon as I get my plastic-hippie-certified Microbus, it's quad
and a lot of cruisin' around town, my friend. snip

There you go! I have a better audio system than ever existed for cars
back in the days of the cartridge's popularity, so it's interesting to
see what the limitations of the format will do when a good system is
available. One thing I've found to be unflinchingly true...the
compression caused by analog tape in small track/low speed formats
like cartridge and ferric cassette is actually better in the noisy
automobile acoustic environment than are uncompressed, high quality
CrO2 cassette and CD.

I play my cartridges, I don't fawn over them, or try to use them as
some sort of privatized social security program/retirement plan, like
someone else we know. There are several interesting facets to these
things, not only in terms of just labels, version differences and the
like, but also the technical eccentricities of it all. I've worked
pretty hard (harder than logic would dictate) to make these things
perform to their utmost, and have proven that the format was capable
of better performance than I'd say about 90% of the original
purchasers ever experienced...which isn't to say it was all that
great, but it sure is a helluva lot better than I remember hearing
from those Craigs, Lears, and other junk thrown into cars back in the
'60s and '70s.

dB

UNIVERSAL GENIUS wrote:
Cassette ran 8-track into the ground, because it was SMALLER AND
CHEAPER TO MAKE for the music co's.- hence more profit margin- you
dumb
ass- not because it sounded better. If they kept making 8-tracks and
stocking them, people would have kept right on BUYING 8-TRACKS over
cassettes, just like we all did in high school in 1980 !

Cassettes were considered a PIECE OF ****. And they still are !


As much as I do like the 8-track format, I must admit the draw to me is
mainly the novelty and nostalgia of it. For the sake of argument here
are some key specs of my Teac V-8030s cassette deck to show that later
cassette machines (good ones at least) beat the pants off of 8-track in
crucial measurements. If you can find any 8-track recorder with better
specs I will take my words back:


Wow and Flutter: 0.022%

Frequency Response: (Overall): -20 dB
15 - 20,000 Hz (Cr02 tape) 21,000 Hz for metal

Signal To Noise Ratio: 60 dB (NR Off)
84 dB (Dolby S in, over 1 khz)


Now I have had some good sucess at recording with 8-track, especially
using a good source like CD, but the majority of pre-recorded tapes
really sounded bad to my ears. But I am sure that there were the
exceptions?


lp

On 16 May 2005 11:19:29 -0700, "Cartrivision1"
wrote:

As much as I do like the 8-track format, I must admit the draw to me is
mainly the novelty and nostalgia of it. For the sake of argument here
are some key specs of my Teac V-8030s cassette deck to show that later
cassette machines (good ones at least) beat the pants off of 8-track in
crucial measurements. If you can find any 8-track recorder with better
specs I will take my words back: snip

Fun! Someone with technical acumen! I'm SO tired of beating up on
Charlie Nudo all the time for being a moron, so let's play "compare
the formats!"

Wollensak 8075, completely serviced and aligned using MRL 185 nWb/M
full track alignment cart, new belt, cleaned bearings, etc. All
measurements for the Wollensak are referenced to 0 VU = 185 nWb/M, and
I'll assume all measurements for the Teac are at 0 VU = 250 nWb/M, 4
dB hotter.

Wow and Flutter: 0.022% snip

Wow and Flutter: .05% best case, unweighted using MRL test cartridge
and Ampex TU-40 flutter bridge. Factory rating: .1% weighted

Comment: Teac's rating is probably IHF weighted. Wollensak may have
used CBS/NAB weighting, but we'll never now for sure. Both yield
nearly the same results overall. My figures were unweighted, so they
might be equal if I apply IHF weighting. Note that this is a "best
case" scenario...perfect cart, perfectly clean tape path, spring
pads...the works. "Reality" is a little different. Using a
Nortronics AT-230 (I think) test cartridge, I got around .08%
unweighted, which is probably more typical. What's amazing is that
the Wollensak beat the factory spec by four times if you consider the
fact that I measure unweighted.

Reality check: Factory specs for a new Ampex 351's transport in 1956
were .1%, unweighted, at 15 IPS.

Frequency Response: (Overall): -20 dB
15 - 20,000 Hz (Cr02 tape) 21,000 Hz for metal snip snip

Frequency Response @ -10VU (actual):

±3 dB 32-14,000 Hz, Scotch 203-type "Dynarange"
±3 dB 32-17,500 Hz, Scotch "Classic" (250?) using "Special" selector.

Factory specs:

30-12K using "Dynarange"
30-15K using "Classic"

Comment: 3M did the usual "fudging" and never specified tolerances,
and neither did Teac. I use ±3 dB (actually a snooty way of saying a
6 dB tolerance), as 3 dB is about as little of a level increase as the
human ear can easily detect in the middle of the aural spectrum, as
per Messrs. Fletcher and Munson at Bell Labs in the '20s. I beat the
factory spec with a head freshly lapped using 3M abrasives used for
head lapping, which will "cheat" the frequency response at the top end
a tad. A replacement Nortronics head, fresh out of the box, did
absolutely no better on the 8075, but it did on an 8056 I tested.
Further, "humps" in the bass response will typically happen at lower
frequencies than on cassette decks, due to the higher tape speed and
bigger head pole pieces. The Wollensak BARELY made the limit around
62 Hz, where there's a big hump, and a smaller one at around
120...typical in low speed analog recording on any format. Uneven
bass response and "bass cancellation" was the bane of the cassette
format for years until better head designs started showing up in the
'80s.

Signal To Noise Ratio: 60 dB (NR Off)
84 dB (Dolby S in, over 1 khz)

Signal-to-Noise, Bell Labs "A" weighted (50-15K)

Actual: 48 dB referenced to 0 VU, Dolby "B" off, "Dynarange"
56 dB referenced to 0 VU, Dolby "B" off, "Classic

57 dB referenced to 0 VU, Dolby "B" on, "Dynarange"
66 dB referenced to 0 VU, Dolby "B" on, "Classic"

Factory spec: 50 dB on "Dynarange", Dolby off
60 dB on "Dynarange", Dolby on

Later cassettes (CrO2, FeCr and even some of the better ferrics) beat
all 8 track, hands down. Dolby "B" gets the "Classic" cartridge into
the realm of 7½ IPS consumer RTR with no noise reduction and actually
beats Teac's figures, assuming they used CrO2, using no noise
reduction. I experimented with various brands of tape over the last
year or so (see archives for results), and some tapes WILL beat the
Scotch reference tapes I used. One sleeper was Memorex, which easily
beat "Dynarange" while maintaining a good sensitivity and headroom.
The Japanese carts, Maxell and especially high end TDKs, are very
quiet, but you give up some headroom.

You'll see where I think 3M tried to "cheat" a little on their noise
specs by referencing the noise floor probably to tape saturation,
rather than a more realistic 0 VU. Typical in consumer grade gear.
How much "cheating" Teac did is open to argument, but I know they used
to cheat on their noise specs on semi-pro RTRs like the A- 3440S by a
LOT. I know, I've had one for years...dbx is a must-have.

Now I have had some good sucess at recording with 8-track, especially
using a good source like CD, but the majority of pre-recorded tapes
really sounded bad to my ears. But I am sure that there were the
exceptions? snip

Many prerecorded 8 tracks were HORRID, while others were damned good.
Worst examples of 8 tracks I've heard to date were WEA, Doobie
Brothers, "Minute By Minute," with horrid compression (more than 2:1)
and bass and treble cut while midrange was sizzling. Unlistenable,
went for parts. Two copies of this same tape confirmed the
engineering screw up. Many Columbia "TC8" carts, especially those
with Dolby "B", can sound pretty good, if not a bit hissy even with
the Dolby on. Capitol stuff is variable...you never know what you're
going to get. I have one Beach Boys "Endless Summer", non-Dolby of
course, that's damned good, while another release, a "greatest hits",
sucks...compressed, distorted, overly bright in the upper midrange.
One 8 track I have is actually better than the LP...Sir Douglas
Quintet...go figure!

It seemed that the philosophy at the time was that these things were
going to be played in cars, on crappy OEM, Lear, Pioneer, and Craig
machines, into 4" cheapie speakers, so the goal was to make it as loud
as possible in the midrange area, and screw the bass and top end. WEA
Elektra bucked that trend with Joni Mitchell; all of the carts of her
I've gotten (save one damaged by a magnetized head) are of good
fidelity to the LPs. Similarly, some Rundgren stuff (ick) is released
through WEA and is well recorded...as if anyone wants to listen to him
most of the time. One thing is for sure, and I'll credit lennonfan of
Baltimore (hi, hon!) with opening my ears to this: English-made
cartridges are almost ALWAYS better made and recorded than any US
cart. He made the comparison between the Beatles' "red and blue"
albums, released here on four carts, while on two "double play" carts
in the UK, and the differences are pretty stunning, as they were
between the US Capitol and UK EMI LP releases. The US releases were
done on "dubs of dubs of dubs" of the UK masters, and then Capitol
added echo chamber and equalization to try to "spice it up," so they
sound far removed from the real thing. The UK carts sound like a good
UK LP in comparison. I've also gotten some other UK releases of US
hits, such as Chicago. The UK CBS Chicago X cart was much higher in
"fi" than were the two copies of US Columbia TC8s I had, and is on a
BASF cart with presumably BASF tape. I've also learned that BASF
blank carts sold in Europe was always of higher quality than the crap
sold in the US.

Another wild card is anything made for any label by GRT/Orradio. Some
are good, some are horrible, most are fair to middlin'. I have one
late Orradio/early GRT cart of Three Dog Night's "Harmony" that is
astounding, in that the big, long bass of Joe Schremi is of tremendous
power, overloading most 8 track players' preamps easily. Looking at
calibrated VUs, the damned thing pegs the needles on every bass note.
I'm sure someone was screwing around in the plant, as a later GRT blue
cartridge of the same release has much truncated bass response.
Played on a good system, though, through a good deck, the earlier cart
rivals the LP except for some lost top end and added hiss. The later
"blue" cart? All midrange...like a Bose speaker! "Got no highs? Got
no lows! Only midrange...MUST BE BOSE!" Bose blows.

Orradio also provided carts for those ubiquitous "Reader's Digest"
releases. I love big band, so I got a mint set of Harry James on an
RD set, both on later Orradio carts, built like brick ****houses. The
sounds was most definitely above average, with good bass and sparkling
treble. No Dolby, though, so it's hissy. Unfortunately, a lot of
"filler" was put on these carts to round them out, some of Harry
James' worst attempts at adapting '60s pop hits to big band are
therein. It wasn't one of Helen Forrest's best efforts on some of
those, either, as she tended to "screech" the vocals a bit. However,
some of the old chestnuts sound as good as ever, and she does a great
job on "I Cried For You," "I've Heard That Song Before," and other
James classics. Harry's lip was getting a little lazy by the late
'60s, though, and none of these approach what was heard on his Capitol
LP of 1955, "Harry James in Hi-Fi," probably the best recording of the
James Gang ever made, even if it's monaural.

If you find all your prerecords are dull and lacking in any treble,
but your home dubs sound great on the same machine, it's obvious that
your head is out of azimuth alignment. Alignment cartridges are rare
for 8 track these days, and I resorted to having one custom made by
Magnetic Reference Laboratories to 8 track fluxivity specs. They only
supply broadcast carts, so I just ordered the pancake and plopped it
into an RCA cart for usage on 8 tracks. Trying to align any head on
any machine using program material is fruitless, of course, and those
phony "alignment tapes" sold by Charlie Nudo are complete frauds, as I
found out the hard way. Every now and then you can get a Nortronics
or Marantz off of eBay, but it'll take some time and some big bucks.
The more often found Audiotex carts aren't very good; freq run tones
are ±4 dB (!!) and I found the azimuth on the Audiotex cart to be off
a bit. Charlie Nudo uses this as a master to make his "fraud carts"
seen on ebay all the time.

More frequent are used broadcast alignment carts, which are 7½ IPS.
You CAN pop out the pancake and put it in an 8 track cart, but the
freq run tones will be useless due to equalization (unless you're a
math major) and the reference fluxivity certainly will be off. If
you're smart and can work logarithms, it's easy to take a 200 nWb/M
tape and use it for 185 (a .7 dB difference) or even a 250 nWb/M
(almost 5 dB...ack!), but as I say, the equalization will be screwed,
and the 10 KHz azimuth tone on the broadcast cart will only be 5 KHz
on the 8 track...not quite good enough for me.

dB

zzzzzzzzzzz....
what a long, snoring, boring post DoucheB just made
**** off Scarredbutthole !

you forgot to mention, you can't hear !

"you are ****ED UP"

"so you you a ****ing LIAR"

We all know you are a raging Christian, does that give you the right to
use these words? Seriously, What Would Jesus Type?

hmmm, let's just think about that...

God destroyed the Egyptians by drowning them in the red sea...

He also flooded the entire world and killed everyone but Noah and his
family...

He destroyed Sodom and Gamurrah for too much fudge packing- and turned
a lady to a pillar of salt just for looking at it...

What would God type ?

I'd say he's gonna nuke your ass too when you see him face to face...

****, Noodles, I figured you were old, but with such vivid
recollections- clearly you were there! I'm assuming this cuz with all
the 'dirty money' on your hands, they must really burn when you pick up
a Bible.

By the way, what's up with the Gannon-Press-Agent story with Your Holy
Saviour, Dubya? Very Christian to hire a male prostitute into the
Press Corp to ask easy questions for him.

Thanks for even more examples of Christian love, there, bub.

Christ was the first Christian- He went in the temple, saw dickheads
like you there, and He wrecked the place in anger.

There's one more example for ya, Dubya...

Lost the last election ? Get used to it- your party is fini...