Which NOS 8-Track Brands Are Best?

Hello to the newsgroup!

As a newbie to 8-Track recording, (but an old hat at Reel-to-Reel) I
was hoping that one of you experienced posters to this group might
educate me a bit. Over last weekend, I recorded on a NOS Radio Shack 90
min. red cart and found the foam pad to be decomposed. I also noticed
that several of my Ampex pre-recorded carts have felt type pads which
work fine. Which manufacturers used felt pads in their blank tape and
which brand of New Old Stock to you folks recommend? Ampex? Scotch?
BASF? TDK? Maxell?

I bought 14 units of NOS Scotch/3M on Ebay a few days ago, and now wish
I'd been more prudent and gotten your advice before buying. There's
also 14 units of BASF "High Performance" that I thought about snagging,
but I'll wait and see what you prefer...

Thanks!

Bell

Stay away from any radio shack tapes, both the red and blue carts are
not as good as other brands.

the best are Scotch, Certron, Maxell, TDK

don't worry about worn out pads- just replace them. Very few carts
have good pads in them, unless they are the spring type.

my signoff monicker below:
roflmao ! roflmao !
I'm DoucheBob Scarredbutthole
aka Bob Scarborough, king of the o-dildow-scope

On 17 May 2005 21:30:10 -0700, "Bell N. Howell"
wrote:

Hello to the newsgroup!

As a newbie to 8-Track recording, (but an old hat at Reel-to-Reel) I
was hoping that one of you experienced posters to this group might
educate me a bit. Over last weekend, I recorded on a NOS Radio Shack 90
min. red cart and found the foam pad to be decomposed. snip

Plus the tape is utter crap. Get rid of them. As for the foam pads,
contact Kate's Track Shack (http://www.katestrackshack.com) and order
a bag of Win-Gib® replacement pads...the best of them all.

I also noticed
that several of my Ampex pre-recorded carts have felt type pads which
work fine. Which manufacturers used felt pads in their blank tape and
which brand of New Old Stock to you folks recommend? Ampex? Scotch?
BASF? TDK? Maxell? snip

See the archives of this group for a lot of various testing reviews I
did on common 8 track cartridge oxides in the past. He's the 50¢
rundown:

Scotch "Dynarange" (similar in characteristics to Scotch 202-203 reel
tape): The "standard"...not too good, not too bad, right smack in the
middle in performance on sensitivity, headroom, signal-to-noise ratio,
resistance to flutter in the cartridge...everything. You can't really
go wrong with "Dynarange," unless you know what you're looking for.

Scotch "175": Preceded "Dynarange", older style carts and box. Lower
MOLs, higher noise floor, but reliable. I no longer buy 175; there's
better to be had.

Scotch "Classic" and "Master": Crème de la crème of the 3M line, same
basic oxides as the old 250 and 307, respectively. High MOLs, low
noise floor, OK cartridges, but has different bias requirements than
much more common ferric tapes. If you have adjustable bias in your
deck, you can adjust upward to get flat response from these two, but
if you don't, you'll need to equalize the top end downward to prevent
too much high frequency sensitivity. These are the "black" oxides
from the '60s and '70s, respectively.

Ampex in several "flavors:

Ampex 381: The low-line standby. Best cartridge design in the US
along with RCA, which is harder to open. Early "Lear/Ampex" carts are
a bitch to open. Highest sensitivity. High noise floor mostly offset
by high sensitivity. Takes same bias current as most other ferric
tapes. Good headroom plus high sensitivity makes for a great tape for
the car or a cheesy portable or "all in one", as the signal from the
head gets above the noise floor of cheapie head amps. Most Ampex you
see on eBay is 381 in various permutations.

Ampex 382: "Plus" series. More of the same as 381 with a lower noise
floor. High sensitivity. About the same headroom and MOL. Very rare;
I've only been able to get two examples, one used for testing.

Ampex 385: "ELN," "extra low noise," super rare, from the late '70s.
Seems like about 5 dB lower noise than above with the same basic
magnetic characteristics. A great tape...a shame it's so rare.

Ampex 388: "20/20" series. Looks like to be Ampex 406-407 oxide on
thin cart tape. Everything good about Ampex cart tape and more. More
headroom than most 8 track recorders can use. Same noise floor as
385. More top end, but again, you need to rebias your deck if you're
going to use a lot of this to get flat response and low distortion. A
personal favorite of mine; anything I record on cart to seriously hear
on my Wollensak at home is either on 388 or Scotch "Classic."

Ampex 389: "Grand Master" Ampex goes overboard. Same tape as Ampex
456, still the mastering favorite in analog recording on older
machines. Way too much headroom for home 8 track machines...you just
cannot hit this tape hard enough and hit a 3% THD level. Very quiet.
Rare, but worth having if you nuts about quality.

Ampex knockoffs: "Certron" (old Irish "dog ****" oxides in worse
quality Mexican, Ampex-designed carts. High sensitivity, no top end,
fine for portables or ****ty car decks. "Irish", same basic thing,
but made by Ampex to get rid of old Irish type oxides from the '50s.
Made in US, though. Irish is rare, Certron is everywhere. With
cartridge roughly being prices equally these days, I'd skip
these...there are better for the same price.

Memorex: The "sleeper." Memorex was generally considered cheap stuff
in its day (was priced below Scotch and BASF), but it outperforms
Scotch "Dynarange" in noise floor, has about the same headroom or MOL.
Some Memorex carts are flimsy when opened up. I grabbed a lot of
Memorex because it even sold for cheap on eBay...until I did a review
on it last year. Now, it goes for about the same as Scotch. Good
stuff, I use it for average car music stuff.

BASF: US marketed BASF stuff is consistant garbage, as were their
cassettes. Good, reliable carts, noisy tape with low headroom. Prone
to distort very early, can get nasty even around 0 VU (185 nWb/M on 8
track with NAB 3¾ EQ, 50 and 3180 µS) in the midrange.

Radio Shack: Avoid all "Rat Shack" tape. Early "Rat Shack" was made
by BASF and the "red" ones were even worse than BASF's standard crap.
The "blue" Rat shack "Supertape" (I call it "Stupidtape") is bias
hungry and still sounds like crap, with tons of saturation and
distortion in the top end. The later "Rat Shack" garbage came from
Korea and is virtually unusable. I see "Rat Shack" blue hawked on
eBay for a buck a cart all the time. Don't fall for it. Landfill
food.

ASA (Germany): BASF carts with possibly higher grade BASF oxide tape.
One of the better "standard" carts I've ever tested, but very rare in
the US. Comes in a white BASF cart with a fanciful "psychedelic"
label. Oodles of headroom.

BASF (European): Got some of these from Germany. Similar to ASA
above, although the ASA carts used a very good "dark" oxide that
seemingly had no limit to MOL. US-marketed BASF "Professional"
doesn't come close to these. You can get good BASF from England from
time to time, also.

"Tracs": Garbage. Don't bother.

Capitol: Several permutations of this. Early "Capitol" carts were
made by AudioTape, that independent tape maker from the '50s. Very
good cartridges with single screw holding it together. OK tape,
nothing too special, but good all the way around. Later "Capitol"
came after Capitol Records bought out Audiotape. HORRID cartrdiges,
with brittle black plastic that breaks when you try to coax them open,
and polyethylene reels that melt easily in the car, causing mechanical
noise galore along with uncontrollable flutter. Tape's even better
than the original Audiotape cart tape, but the cartridges are a big
drawback.

See the archives for more in-depth testing information and more
different tapes.

Also, ignore anything about tape posted by Charlie Nudo, aka
trippingtoo8track, "bob scarredbutthole", UNIVERSAL GENIUS, and a ton
of other user names from his delusional mind. He's our resident
crank, mental patient, petty thief and ebay scammer. More about that
in the archives, too...TONS of it...more than the average Usenet
reader should have to endure. Also avoid his auctions under
66fourdoor on eBay.

dB

On 17 May 2005 21:30:10 -0700, "Bell N. Howell"
wrote:

Hello to the newsgroup!

As a newbie to 8-Track recording, (but an old hat at Reel-to-Reel) I
was hoping that one of you experienced posters to this group might
educate me a bit. Over last weekend, I recorded on a NOS Radio Shack 90
min. red cart and found the foam pad to be decomposed. snip

Plus the tape is utter crap. Get rid of them. As for the foam pads,
contact Kate's Track Shack (http://www.katestrackshack.com) and order
a bag of Win-Gib® replacement pads...the best of them all.

I also noticed
that several of my Ampex pre-recorded carts have felt type pads which
work fine. Which manufacturers used felt pads in their blank tape and
which brand of New Old Stock to you folks recommend? Ampex? Scotch?
BASF? TDK? Maxell? snip

See the archives of this group for a lot of various testing reviews I
did on common 8 track cartridge oxides in the past. Here's the 50¢
rundown:

Scotch "Dynarange" (similar in characteristics to Scotch 202-203 reel
tape): The "standard"...not too good, not too bad, right smack in the
middle in performance on sensitivity, headroom, signal-to-noise ratio,
resistance to flutter in the cartridge...everything. You can't really
go wrong with "Dynarange," unless you know what you're looking for.

Scotch "175": Preceded "Dynarange", older style carts and box. Lower
MOLs, higher noise floor, but reliable. I no longer buy 175; there's
better to be had.

Scotch "Classic" and "Master": Crème de la crème of the 3M line, same
basic oxides as the old 250 and 307, respectively. High MOLs, low
noise floor, OK cartridges, but has different bias requirements than
much more common ferric tapes. If you have adjustable bias in your
deck, you can adjust upward to get flat response from these two, but
if you don't, you'll need to equalize the top end downward to prevent
too much high frequency sensitivity. These are the "black" oxides
from the '60s and '70s, respectively.

Ampex in several "flavors:

Ampex 381: The low-line standby. Best cartridge design in the US
along with RCA, which is harder to open. Early "Lear/Ampex" carts are
a bitch to open. Highest sensitivity. High noise floor mostly offset
by high sensitivity. Takes same bias current as most other ferric
tapes. Good headroom plus high sensitivity makes for a great tape for
the car or a cheesy portable or "all in one", as the signal from the
head gets above the noise floor of cheapie head amps. Most Ampex you
see on eBay is 381 in various permutations.

Ampex 382: "Plus" series. More of the same as 381 with a lower noise
floor. High sensitivity. About the same headroom and MOL. Very rare;
I've only been able to get two examples, one used for testing.

Ampex 385: "ELN," "extra low noise," super rare, from the late '70s.
Seems like about 5 dB lower noise than above with the same basic
magnetic characteristics. A great tape...a shame it's so rare.

Ampex 388: "20/20" series. Looks like to be Ampex 406-407 oxide with
a thinner oxide coating on thin cart tape. Everything good about
Ampex cart tape and more. More headroom than most 8 track recorders
can use. Same noise floor as 385. More top end, but again, you need
to rebias your deck if you're going to use a lot of this to get flat
response and low distortion. A personal favorite of mine; anything I
record on cart to seriously hear on my Wollensak at home is either on
388 or Scotch "Classic."

Ampex 389: "Grand Master" Ampex goes overboard. Same oxide but as
Ampex 456, still the mastering favorite in analog recording on older
machines, but thinner. Way too much headroom for home 8 track
machines...you just cannot hit this tape hard enough and hit a 3% THD
level. Very quiet. Rare, but worth having if you nuts about quality.

Ampex knockoffs: "Certron" (old Irish "dog ****" oxides in worse
quality Mexican, Ampex-designed carts. High sensitivity, no top end,
very high top end noise, fine for portables or ****ty car decks.
"Irish", same basic thing, but made by Ampex to get rid of old Irish
type oxides from the '50s. Made in US, though. Irish is rare,
Certron is everywhere. With cartridge prices being roughly equal
these days, I'd skip these...there are better for the same price.

Memorex: The "sleeper." Memorex was generally considered cheap stuff
in its day (was priced below Scotch and BASF), but it outperforms
Scotch "Dynarange" in noise floor, has about the same headroom or MOL.
Some Memorex carts are flimsy when opened up. I grabbed a lot of
Memorex because it even sold for cheap on eBay...until I did a review
on it last year. Now, it goes for about the same as Scotch. Good
stuff, I use it for average car music stuff.

BASF: US marketed BASF stuff is consistant garbage, as were their
cassettes. Good, reliable carts, noisy tape with low headroom. Prone
to distort very early, can get nasty even around 0 VU (185 nWb/M on 8
track with NAB 3¾ EQ, 50 and 3180 µS) in the midrange.

Radio Shack: Avoid all "Rat Shack" tape. Early "Rat Shack" was made
by BASF and the "red" ones were even worse than BASF's standard crap.
The "blue" Rat shack "Supertape" (I call it "Stupidtape") is bias
hungry and still sounds like crap, with tons of saturation and
distortion in the top end. The later "Rat Shack" garbage came from
Korea and is virtually unusable. I see "Rat Shack" blue hawked on
eBay for a buck a cart all the time. Don't fall for it. Landfill
food.

ASA (Germany): BASF carts with possibly higher grade BASF oxide tape.
One of the better "standard" carts I've ever tested, but very rare in
the US. Comes in a white BASF cart with a fanciful "psychedelic"
label. Oodles of headroom.

BASF (European): Got some of these from Germany. Similar to ASA
above, although the ASA carts used a very good "dark" oxide that
seemingly had no limit to MOL. US-marketed BASF "Professional"
doesn't come close to these. You can get good BASF from England from
time to time, also.

"Tracs": Garbage. Don't bother.

Capitol: Several permutations of this. Early "Capitol" carts were
made by AudioTape, that independent tape maker from the '50s. Very
good cartridges with single screw holding it together. OK tape,
nothing too special, but good all the way around. Later "Capitol"
came after Capitol Records bought out Audiotape. HORRID cartrdiges,
with brittle black plastic that breaks when you try to coax them open,
and polyethylene reels that melt easily in the car, causing mechanical
noise galore along with uncontrollable flutter. Tape's even better
than the original Audiotape cart tape, but the cartridges are a big
drawback.

Japanese carts:

TDK SA: Best of them all, very quiet, good headroom, mediocre
sensitivity, better top end headroom than most for roughly the same
bias current as most other ferric tapes. Best cartridge design in the
business, bar none...nylon guides, good plastic, proprietary latching
mechanism to allow easy opening/servicing. The difference between TDK
SA and, say Ampex 389 Grand Master is the sensitivity. TDK is a
"cold" tape; you really need to smack it one to get the level you
need, whereas Ampex is hyper sensitive (about a 5 dB difference),
which means you can keep your record amps way lower and get the same
recorded signal. That's a real plus for Ampex, since most home 8
track recorders have record amps that are pretty weak in the knees.

Maxell various: Very similar to TDK without the good cartridges. LN
is as quiet as TDK. UD has a bit more headroom but the same noise,
actually. Carts aren't as good as the top-line TDK, but still plenty
fine for the job.

TDK "D": Low-line TDK in copies of US carts. So-so tape, so-so carts,
just plain...so-so, as Charlie Noodles likes to call Led Zep's fourth
album he found on a truck stop fraud cart. TDK D is hawked at
inflated prices on eBay usually. I'd avoid it as there's better to be
had cheaper.

See the archives for more in-depth testing information and more
different tapes.

Also, ignore anything about tape posted by Charlie Nudo, aka
trippingtoo8track, "bob scarredbutthole", UNIVERSAL GENIUS, and a ton
of other user names from his delusional mind. He's our resident
crank, mental patient, petty thief and ebay scammer. More about that
in the archives, too...TONS of it...more than the average Usenet
reader should have to endure. Also avoid his auctions under
66fourdoor on eBay.

dB

don't believe DesertBob- his posts and alleged experience have been
proven to be fraudulent lies.

On 18 May 2005 16:38:57 -0700, "the Cartmaster"
wrote:

don't believe DesertBob- his posts and alleged experience have been
proven to be fraudulent lies. snip

ANOTHER fake name, Noodles? Geezus, you're lame!

yes, I'm deaf, sickly, and haven't been laid in 60 years. Here's my
name and address, and phone number- send a warm body, doesn't even have

to be human, me so horny, suckie-****y please ! I'll pay with my
dwindling pathetic union pension.

Robert Scarborough
3061 Kaylyn St.
Lancaster, CA 93535-4917
United States


1-661-946-2428

AVOID THIS EBAY BUYER- HE IS CURRENTLY POSTING AS "DESERTBOB" ON USENET

AND IS "VOXPOPPER" ON EBAY- HERE IS HIS HISTORY


Robert Scarborough
3061 Kaylyn St.
Lancaster, CA 93535-4917
United States


1-661-946-2428


he has also used these previous ebay names:
DESERTBOB-DESERTBOB1-DESERTBOB=AD=AD2-DESERTBOB3


his negative nonpaying feedback:


Slow to respond (10 days), slower to pay (6 weeks). Pulled through.
Caution .
lozmo ( 114) Jul-19-00 05:51 330883808


Slow to respond/pay (over a month for both). Pulled through. Caution



advised.
lozmo ( 114) Jul-19-00 05:51 345428251


Slow to respond (over a month), slower to pay. Pulled through.
Caution adv.
lozmo ( 114) Jul-19-00 05:51 341436478


Absolutely No Communication--Never Paid--Never Even Acknowledged the



Auction!
jlorecords ( 799) Jul-11-00 14:11 328667514


Emailed with address as to where to send item but never sent any
payment
sam1959 ( 3959) Jun-24-00 13:18 327092099


No payment; no longer welcome at my auctions!
mballai ( 1232) Apr-12-00 08:34 288902362
Reply by desertbob: Seller got money via PayPal, then sent letter of
regrets about neg feedback.


Buyer did notfollow through with payment or acceptance of the
item.
moorewatch ( 57) Jan-19-00 18:45 184628439
non payment after two months of the end of auction.
w3kh ( 28) Jan-06-00 06:09 175634528
Reply by desertbob: Illness had slowed me way down, some auctions got
missed; seller has been paid.


Two bills sent. Responded to both with no payment. Auction 3 months
past!
ruttbuster ( 14159) Jan-03-00 13:42 173242109
Reply by desertbob: Illness slowed me way down, some auctions got
missed; seller has been paid.


No response to 4 emails over 3 weeks. No payment!
patk5 ( 179) Aug-04-99 15:08 131312436
Reply by desertbob: Lost hard drive and all email...trying to get all
past due bids paid now
#40524286 & 40532410-Responded once to email.Ignored others.NO
payment received.
franjo-auctions ( 3710) Dec-23-98 15:58


http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eB=AD=AD...&useri=AD=ADd=
=3Ddesertb...



cust complaint was fingerprints& 1 scratch-but stated play good after



wiping
Seller lifter1972 ( 329) Jan-28-04 18:25 2584284726
Reply by voxpopper: Liar. Ask for refund, NEVER responded. E-mail me
for proof. Jan-29-04 21:02


Item mailed with Delivery Confirmation. $3.00 refund Sent. This person
is a liar
Seller oldchicagonow ( 2146) Jun-14-03 14:56 2519946660
Reply by voxpopper: Never responded after first e-mail; haven't seen
any refund. Chk his complaints Jun-19-03 21:43